SaylorCorpus

Why Bitcoin Succeeds | The Saylor Series | Episode 12 (WiM050)

WiM Media · 2021-09-21 · 1h 40m · View on YouTube →

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hey guys

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this is robert reed love from the what

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is money show and as you learn by

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watching this show bitcoin is the single

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most important asset you can own in the

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21st century

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and one of the most important companies

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and all of these services meet the

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led by robbie guttmann yen zhao and ross

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stevens naidic is absolutely exploded

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onto the bitcoin scene recently and is

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leading the way for ongoing

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institutional adoption in this nascent

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asset class

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so please be sure to check out naidig as

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a single source for all your bitcoin

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needs we've talked about how

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gold emerged

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its limitations

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why it ultimately fails

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talked about

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why currency was introduced to augment

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some of its shortcomings

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but also suffers from its own problems

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and it ultimately fails as we have seen

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and are seeing

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so how does

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bitcoin fit into the picture

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i mean simply put bitcoins the best

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money that the human race has ever

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the ability to embrace

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we know gold is defective because

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of its mechanical nature and we know

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fiat's defective because of its

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political nature

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bitcoin why does bitcoin work right

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bitcoin has

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the things that you need in order to

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construct a shared

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immutable

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correct ledger

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right that's our target

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shared immutable correct ledger

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and bitcoin's got a base layer protocol

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the base layer protocol is genetically

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encoded in the system from day one the

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21 million coins is one of the critical

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parts of it

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2.1 quadrillion satoshis

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no more than that

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i think uh the set i mean the second

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part of the protocol is not just the

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mathematical

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parameter it's also the proof of work

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security model

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so when we created it we created it with

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21 million coin limit we created it

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satoshi created it with a proof of work

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and that is the part that makes it

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more likely to be immutable

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and shared

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and correct

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and the third part

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is the balance of power between the

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miners the nodes and the wallets or the

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holders

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i you know

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it wasn't inevitable that you had to

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build it this way

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right uh bitcoin is an engineered

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monetary system

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so it's it's a feat of engineering

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they built a protocol they chose

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components they chose the cryptography

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they chose proof of work

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all of these were engineered components

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and um

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and then uh the balance of power between

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the miners the nodes and the holders

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with the wallets

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that became clearer

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in the block size wars i think

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and following the block size wars i mean

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first miners were the nodes and then the

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miners and the nodes split

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and uh

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eventually we saw that um

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the nodes themselves had a huge amount

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of power

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to check the power of the miners

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but now we're seeing the emergence of

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the power of the holders

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and of course

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the holders are all three of these

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dimensions are decentralizing at a rapid

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so i would say that you know we need the

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protocol at the base layer

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that base layer protocol that that i

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just described that replaces the gold

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that was here at the beginning of the

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universe

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and it replaces the base layer protocol

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that's the political artifact of any

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kind of fiat currency

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the second thing that bitcoin has

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that makes it

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a much better money is it as an

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application layer protocol

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the base layer protocol

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you know ensures that we'll have never

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have more than 21 million bitcoin i mean

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that's the the most important thing and

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then it ensures

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what do i need i

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i need uh

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durability integrity

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and security

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so i need to know that it'll never be

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more than 21 million bitcoin even a

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thousand years from now

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i need to know

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that people aren't going to monkey with

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you know material things like the

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frequency

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or the block size

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that's the integrity part of it and and

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i guess in dirty durability integrity

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they go arm and arm right in a way

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because if if you change the frequency

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and the block size you may inadvertently

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end up changing the limit at some point

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because you break it

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and then you need security you need to

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you need to know that no malwa factor

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can hack it or break into the network

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we're getting all of those things the

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security the integrity the durability

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via the base layer protocol

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but the application layer protocol

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is also important and that's you know

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the ability to do final settlement

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transactions at the base layer with a

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bitcoin wallet address

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you know you we could debate

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interestingly robert like

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do you need lightning or not

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and that's an interesting debate

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because i i think that if we just had

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the ability to do base layer

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transactions on the bitcoin network

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the system is still perfected enough to

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serve as a monetary system

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you would end up with um

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[Music]

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you would end up with with uh

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the layer two application being built

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by a counter parties with some

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counterparty risk

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right instead of instead of what you can

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do with lightning but the combination of

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base layer transactions via bitcoin

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wallet and then layer two transactions

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via lightning wallet

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i think those two things together

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you know are kind of

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they're clearly

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superior

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as an application level protocol

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and if you group them together and say

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that is the the

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non-custodial

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decentralized open source

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protocol for moving money around in the

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bitcoin standard

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then you've got the the structure of

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something really compelling

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another way to describe this is

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bitcoin gives you um a base layer

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protocol to move large sums of money

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around at small cost

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in an hour

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and it gives you

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a layer two protocol to move

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mid-level and small sums of money around

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instantly

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for almost nothing

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on my lightning wallet you know i can i

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can move a thousand satoshis at the cost

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of one satoshi in a second

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which is more efficient

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right i can move a hundred thousand

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satoshi's

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it's like thirty dollars right i can

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move thirty dollars for one satoshi in a

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second

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that makes that layer two protocol

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you know faster

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and more efficient than any other

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currency transfer protocol that i'm

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aware of in the history of the world

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right and my understanding of it is as

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the network proliferates and the network

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density grows

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the transactions per second actually

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increase

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and i don't think there's an upper bound

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on that so the lighting network could

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actually be

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at full scale this global system of

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you know instant final settlement

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effectively which is mind-blowing

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yeah i mean i think the lightning

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network is really strategic to the

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proliferation of bitcoin

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but uh as as a theorist i think that

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what's critical to bitcoin success is

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not the lightning network but the

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underlying bitcoin

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final settlement

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as long as someone can take final

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settlement of a hundred thousand dollars

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in an hour

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for five bucks

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or 50 cents or or

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i think right now probably if you took

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if you set a lower fee and you were

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willing to wait longer right you can you

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can take final settlement in a day

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a nickel

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some some very small amount and if you

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want it done fast then you pay

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more yeah but

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i recall

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that optionality is what keeps

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counterparties honest as you said i

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recall

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you describing people being polite in

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miami because everyone's potentially

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armed

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that kind of dynamic

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yeah it means you can pull your bitcoin

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off the exchange or out of the bank or

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away from your counter party in an hour

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and i so i think that's critical i think

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that's critical

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i think lightning is

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is uh

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probably something that's going to

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accelerate

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you know the spread of bitcoin and it

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and it's the logical next step if we can

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engineer a decentralized non-custodial

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crypto asset network

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based upon private keys and crypt

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cryptography and the like as bitcoin

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there's no reason why we couldn't

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engineer a layer to

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a bitcoin that's also non-custodial

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and decentralized

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that makes a difference at a trade-offs

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in essence i think the lightning network

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is a decentralized

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uh open proof-of-stake network

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but but the the critical issue is it's a

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proof-of-stake network not staked with

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its own token but staked with the

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underlying token of bitcoin

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which makes it a much higher integrity

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much higher integrity um

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much longer living more secure

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open decentralized network than one that

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was created with its own token which

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would be kind of self-referential right

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right and the the i guess one other

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slight difference there is the actual

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revenues generated on lightning are for

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routing transactions

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versus just

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staking the asset you get some

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percentage yield off the asset you're

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actually getting paid for services

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rendered

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which makes sense yeah

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we've got two things we've got a base

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layer protocol and we've got an

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application layer protocol

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and so why does the bitcoin standard

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work or why is bitcoin uh the best

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monetary system

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right how does it succeed in reality

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well let's start with inflation

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the scourge of inflation which destroys

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fiat and destroys gold

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doesn't exist in bitcoin you've got a

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cons a conservative system

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and a mathematically complete system so

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it's mathematically correct

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and it is conservative in a

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thermodynamic sense that that we don't

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add additional energy in the system nor

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does it deplete energy in the system

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and the basis of that conservation

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is that uh base layer protocol

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right the base layer protocol plus the

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proof of work together you could have

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designed a system

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which

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wasn't

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conservative right just because you get

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everything else right if satoshi had

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gotten everything else right

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but then left some randomness or some

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inflation in the token count

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you know

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it wouldn't have been ideal um

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i think the second thing

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that is a big attribute for it is uh

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the difficulty of confiscation

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so the the private keys

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of cryptography are the strongest

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property rights in the history of the

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human race

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so if we think about cryptography as the

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as the basis of property rights

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then truthfully the only property you

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can really own

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is um digital property on a secure

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crypto asset network

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of which the only one we know of is

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bitcoin so right now

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right the only property you can truly

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own is bitcoin like look if we ever went

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to alpha centauri and we went to a new

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planet and and we cut off

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you know cut off communication with the

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earth it's possible that the dictator of

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alpha centauri could spin up another

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bitcoin network centauri network

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and if it was a closed system given

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enough

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and it had the same exact

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mathematics as this

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as it spread as a virus

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and infected the billions of people in

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alpha centauri it would be its own

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crypto acid network right so you can

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imagine something like that

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but right now what you've got is one

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successful life form

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and that is bitcoin and uh

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and so you've got one successful digital

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property

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and now now we actually have

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an engineered property and so you have

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an a scientific basis for property

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rights

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and we never had it before and it's

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illustrated pretty effectively it's like

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if if you have a million dollars

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and and um you

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convert the million into a building

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well the building can be seized by the

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mayor by eminent domain you can lose

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your building so that and you can't move

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the building so that the building is

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impaired property and

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the building can be taxed

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it is immobile it can be seized it can

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be taxed

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and it also has physical nexus which

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means

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you know a meteorite can fall on it or

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an earthquake can wipe it out

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so there are risks to the building

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the useful life of the building is a

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hundred years

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maybe less if it's poorly constructed

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and it's only appealing to people in

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that geographic political nexus

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if the building was in north korea

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how valuable is a building in north

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korea to an investment company in new

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york city

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right right so

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so a building is property leaves a lot

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to be desired land as property has the

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same issue

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you know a block in manhattan is a lot

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more valuable than a block you know in

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the middle of the desert

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because the land is geographically

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located next to

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uh a lot of investors with a lot of

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money that can actually develop the land

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uh for some economic purpose

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and the land can be impaired and taxed

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you know the property tax uh you know in

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fact there's a phrase in the real estate

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business they always talk about triple

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and you know triple net is like

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like after taxes

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after your taxes you know maintenance

0:17:33

after your expenses

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etc um

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so these are high maintenance properties

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they're very expensive and not very

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portable yeah

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so you can you can rifle through the

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properties well there's art there's gold

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there's silver there's commodities

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there's securities there are bonds there

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are currency baskets

0:17:57

they all have

0:17:59

they all have some liability many of

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them are currency derivatives and so as

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currency derivatives they have

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they have an you know dilution coming

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from the inflation the underlying

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currency

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but the ones that have have physicality

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are subject to search and seizure and

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impairment

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because you can't move them and then

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some are

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others

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are unique maybe but

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you know even though you might own art

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people are going to create making more

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or they're going to keep making more art

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and so if you're looking for a property

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that no one can seize that no one can

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that is is hardest to impaired bitcoin

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is the hardest to impair property

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it's it's

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technically i would say it's probably

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the hardest to tax

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the hardest to destroy

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and the hardest to seize and the hardest

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to impair

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of any property

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available to you to purchase right at

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this point

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i would say um

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one thing i think is really interesting

0:19:08

here is that you know if we define

0:19:11

property

0:19:12

as an exclusive relationship between

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an owner and an asset

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but that relationship requires

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enforcement you know typically it's

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enforced via the government historically

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um but bitcoin's different right bitcoin

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is this property right

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that's in you can enforce yourself yeah

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enforced by the network and it's

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actually

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the first property right completely

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independent of that monopoly on violence

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like not only does it not require

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enforcement by the government but is

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completely independent of the government

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and that um

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that's just a lot to get your head

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around i think that we've actually

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invented a property right fully

0:19:52

independent of government

0:19:57

yeah it's

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and and we'll talk about it more when we

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get to talking about proof of work and

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mining and the like

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as you can go really deep into the bases

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of security for this property

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but for the purposes of the bitcoin

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standard right now i think the most

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important thing to be said is

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it's the hardest thing to confiscate on

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earth yep

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and i joke you can't take it with you

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if i shoot you in the head you can't

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take your gold with you

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the egyptian pharaohs built pyramids

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take the goal with them they were all

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robbed

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if i said to you take a million dollars

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and buy some property and then

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and uh you have to make sure that um

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and you're going to be murdered by

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somebody that you and your family

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next week buy some property that they

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won't get after you're dead

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what is that property

0:20:57

there's only one right yeah i mean

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securities and bonds and currencies

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won't last

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gold all these things are seizable

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you can't take them with you

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but if you buy bitcoin and you hold the

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private keys in your head when you die

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the bitcoin goes with you and no one

0:21:18

else gets their hands on it and the

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significance of that is because it's

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impossible to confiscate with force

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and because it disappears with your

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death

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then any hostile actor always has an

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incentive to negotiate with you

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because it's better for me to hold a gun

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to your head and take half of it

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then pull the trigger and get none of it

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and that's not true with any other

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property in all other cases i can pull

0:21:49

the trigger and get all of it

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and so you you have an unstable

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situation

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with that property and the interesting

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thing is that confiscation element

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it works at the individual level the

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institutional level in the nation-state

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level

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so if one nation is going to declare a

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war in another nation and murder

0:22:14

everybody they get their gold

0:22:17

they also get their land

0:22:19

they also get their factories i mean

0:22:21

there's a joke neutron bomb i'll just

0:22:23

nuke you and we'll leave the cities i

0:22:26

might get the gold the silver the

0:22:28

farmland the buildings the factories

0:22:32

the ships

0:22:34

but i wouldn't get the bitcoin

0:22:37

and so

0:22:38

the spoils of war bitcoin is not spoils

0:22:42

of war

0:22:43

right

0:22:44

other things maybe

0:22:46

but bitcoin is not spoilers of war

0:22:50

with regard to a bank or or a financier

0:22:55

if you own the bitcoin and someone puts

0:22:58

a claim against you the way it normally

0:23:00

works is

0:23:03

i've got a million dollars with a bank

0:23:05

and i borrow against it and then they

0:23:08

decide to mark my securities down and

0:23:10

they force liquidate me and they sell

0:23:12

all my securities and take my property

0:23:15

that happened uh that happened with arc

0:23:18

archos architos

0:23:22

i mean it happens all the time it

0:23:24

happens all the time on crypto exchanges

0:23:26

if you have your crypto on the exchange

0:23:29

or your bitcoin and you borrow against

0:23:32

and then you can't meet a margin call

0:23:36

they can force liquidate your

0:23:38

your assets and they seize them but if

0:23:40

you pull your assets off the exchange

0:23:44

and if you hold your private keys then

0:23:46

your bank can't seize your assets in a

0:23:48

hostile fashion

0:23:50

they would be more likely to negotiate

0:23:52

with you

0:23:54

and because you can take custody of it

0:23:57

you don't necess you don't necessarily

0:24:01

to rely upon this all or nothing either

0:24:05

i give you all my stocks and i borrow

0:24:07

against them or you have none of them

0:24:09

we could split the difference with

0:24:12

i give you proof that i have it

0:24:15

right proof of reserves without the

0:24:17

transfer of the asset

0:24:19

and return for a different type of loan

0:24:23

so let me ask you a question real quick

0:24:25

so we're touching on something really

0:24:27

important that

0:24:28

bitcoin

0:24:29

alters the economic logic of violence

0:24:33

which is a very important

0:24:35

element of how humans organize

0:24:37

themselves yeah and you mentioned

0:24:39

previously you know the beginning of the

0:24:41

series how war

0:24:43

has this tendency to accelerate learning

0:24:45

for people you know kind of under the

0:24:48

duress of war or the desperation of

0:24:50

warfare we figure out new new ways of

0:24:53

doing things

0:24:54

do you think

0:24:56

armed conflict in the 21st century could

0:24:59

accelerate

0:25:00

nation state adoption of bitcoin as this

0:25:03

sort of

0:25:04

advantage dawns on them that they can't

0:25:07

be you know they can be plundered of

0:25:08

their gold but not necessarily their

0:25:10

bitcoin yeah i mean i think i think all

0:25:12

stress all stress will accelerate the

0:25:15

adoption of new technology

0:25:21

right for example

0:25:21

when people are fighting wars like when

0:25:23

we're fighting wars we were hauling over

0:25:26

c-130s or freighters air freighters full

0:25:29

of pallets of cash right

0:25:35

normally the way you fight wars is with

0:25:37

gold or with cash or something

0:25:45

and uh and if you're cut off right and

0:25:45

you need to buy or or sell materials of

0:25:48

some sort you need hard currency

0:25:51

so i i think that uh yeah it will

0:25:53

accelerate the adoption of technology

0:25:56

like bitcoin

0:25:57

uh and and coming back to this issue

0:25:59

right because it's not confiscatable

0:26:02

it doesn't invite violence on your

0:26:04

person from other family members

0:26:07

like for example you ever worry about

0:26:08

being murdered by a family member be

0:26:10

because of whatever your will says

0:26:13

if you're if you had your bitcoin in a

0:26:16

multi-signature relationship or

0:26:18

multi-sig something or other

0:26:24

then maybe uh maybe it changed the

0:26:24

dynamic so i think um

0:26:27

i think all sorts of violence

0:26:29

you know against the individual against

0:26:31

the company or the institution or

0:26:33

against the uh

0:26:35

the municipality or the nation state i

0:26:38

think those are all less likely

0:26:40

and more likely to result more less

0:26:42

likely to happen and more likely to

0:26:43

result in negotiation

0:26:46

so why else is bitcoin going to succeed

0:26:48

why is it succeeding well because

0:26:51

hypothecation is so much more difficult

0:26:55

i'm not saying impossible but the layer

0:26:57

one and the layer two protocols bitcoin

0:27:00

and lightning those mitigate the need

0:27:02

for hypothecation

0:27:05

right it's it's less likely you would

0:27:08

you would need to trust all your assets

0:27:11

if i can move

0:27:14

one percent of my assets a day for a

0:27:16

satoshi

0:27:17

then i wouldn't put all my assets in a

0:27:21

right now all of your assets all your

0:27:24

stocks are probably in a bank you don't

0:27:26

hold any of them right

0:27:29

in theory you could actually take

0:27:31

possession of your stocks is like

0:27:34

certificates and put them in a safe

0:27:35

deposit box and you know take them out

0:27:37

of street name they say

0:27:39

yeah i don't even know if you can do

0:27:40

that people don't do it yeah i think

0:27:42

that i

0:27:43

i may be wrong about this but i think

0:27:45

the dtcc now officially owns all stocks

0:27:48

even if you own the certificate

0:27:51

yeah so it's harder and harder yeah

0:27:55

yeah so the protocols mitigate

0:27:57

hypothecation and also they punish

0:28:00

um hypothecators

0:28:03

like if someone did go naked short

0:28:06

bitcoin in order to make a quick dollar

0:28:09

and you pulled all your bitcoin off the

0:28:11

exchange and they have to then settle

0:28:13

right creates a massive short squeeze

0:28:15

yeah so whenever you pull those

0:28:17

securities away from the hypothecator

0:28:19

then they get squeezed

0:28:22

so if i knew that it was impossible like

0:28:25

if you had a billion in gold i know

0:28:26

you're never going to take delivery of

0:28:28

it i can

0:28:29

you know short it 101

0:28:32

and if i knew you'd never take delivery

0:28:34

the bitcoin i might get a little bit

0:28:36

cute but

0:28:38

but in a world where people can then

0:28:42

you know there are there are exchanges

0:28:47

just like there are bad banks that fail

0:28:49

it's just that they're failing

0:28:51

continually in bitcoin because that's

0:28:54

the nature of the free market and that's

0:28:55

how the free market

0:28:57

squeezes out

0:28:59

um defective actors and malicious actors

0:29:02

right

0:29:04

and the ones that

0:29:06

the ones that have perfected security

0:29:08

and the like they succeed

0:29:11

so the the fourth dimension of

0:29:14

of um virtue for bitcoin is uh you know

0:29:18

superior authentication

0:29:20

and again the layer one the layer two

0:29:22

protocols and cryptography in general

0:29:24

what you can do proof of keys and the

0:29:27

like and proof of

0:29:29

reserves they um they solve the

0:29:31

authentication issue

0:29:36

it's maybe it's solved

0:29:38

you know for the first time effectively

0:29:42

you know when you want to settle or you

0:29:44

want to buy a piece of real estate

0:29:46

sometimes it takes a week two weeks to

0:29:48

do a title search

0:29:53

and it's a manual process so you're

0:29:53

talking about a hyper expensive

0:29:56

manual process to even to even do a

0:29:59

title search on a small amount of

0:30:01

property

0:30:02

and bitcoin gives you a way that's i

0:30:05

mean presumably it

0:30:07

it's somewhere between thousand and a

0:30:09

million times cheaper and faster

0:30:12

like it's not an order of magnitude it's

0:30:16

it's many orders of magnitude better on

0:30:19

the authentication

0:30:21

and maybe more important than that um

0:30:23

it's all you can automate the

0:30:25

authentication

0:30:27

so that means that a computer program

0:30:29

could authenticate 100 million different

0:30:32

holders

0:30:34

every hour

0:30:36

for a nickel

0:30:38

right and when you get to that level

0:30:40

that opens up the possibility to create

0:30:42

new types of businesses and new types of

0:30:44

applications that that otherwise would

0:30:46

have been cost prohibitive because the

0:30:49

friction involved

0:30:55

bitcoin succeeds succeeds over fiat

0:30:55

based upon transportation and uh

0:30:58

dynamics too the fifth element

0:31:01

of virtue

0:31:03

it's fast on layer one

0:31:05

and it's instant on layer two

0:31:08

moving a hundred million dollars of

0:31:10

property on layer one in an hour is fast

0:31:14

but moving a hundred million dollars or

0:31:16

maybe even moving them moving a hundred

0:31:17

thousand dollars on a layer two in a

0:31:20

second for nearly free

0:31:23

is instant

0:31:25

and so so it's just much faster

0:31:28

and and uh it comes with no

0:31:37

no artificial geopolitical

0:31:39

geopolitical constraints

0:31:41

right even when you have fast on fiat

0:31:43

you have fast subjects of geopolitical

0:31:45

constraints that are continually

0:31:46

shifting whereas fast and bitcoin has no

0:31:49

geopolitical jurisdiction it's

0:31:51

cyberspace it's orthogonal to

0:31:53

geopolitical space

0:31:56

and um

0:31:58

what you want is a situation where a

0:32:00

billion people in china

0:32:03

could all authenticate themselves and

0:32:06

trade on a value network

0:32:09

through the great chinese firewall to a

0:32:12

website sitting in cuba or sitting in

0:32:14

the u.s

0:32:17

you'll never do that with any kind of

0:32:19

fiat system right in fact in fact the

0:32:21

entire

0:32:22

chinese system is constructed to to

0:32:26

create a capital firewall so that

0:32:29

capital can't flow out of china or in

0:32:32

china the central bank chokes it in

0:32:34

order to in order to maintain the rmb

0:32:37

versus the dollar

0:32:40

so that idea that i can i can cross that

0:32:43

layer instantly

0:32:45

that means i can build

0:32:47

i can build a value exchange into a

0:32:50

billion transactions a minute

0:32:52

and i can build a value exchange that

0:32:54

flows in a billion transactions a minute

0:32:56

for a billion people across 100 million

0:32:59

different applications

0:33:05

and they can all they can all move

0:33:05

fluidly right so i guess it's the

0:33:07

difference between

0:33:10

if you want a metaphor right

0:33:13

liquid fluid flow

0:33:15

uh into a container

0:33:17

like that's bitcoin and lightning

0:33:23

you take uh

0:33:30

one kilogram gold blocks

0:33:30

and you can move or or even london good

0:33:32

delivery bars right

0:33:35

are they 400 gram

0:33:37

400 no 400 ounce or whatever i forget

0:33:40

yeah 400 ounce london good delivery bars

0:33:43

you can do what you can build whatever

0:33:45

you want with those

0:33:47

but one of them is it's like legos that

0:33:51

are 400 ounces each and the other

0:33:54

is water

0:33:56

liquid right or air

0:33:59

you know there's just no comparison

0:34:01

between the two static versus dynamic

0:34:05

yeah and completely liquid like yeah try

0:34:08

what i want you to do is construct a

0:34:10

tornado

0:34:12

with london good delivery bars of gold

0:34:17

you can you know you can imagine a

0:34:20

tornado with air and water

0:34:23

or a whirlpool or a cyclone

0:34:25

you just can't imagine that with

0:34:28

big you know

0:34:30

bars of gold

0:34:32

because one's discreet and the other is

0:34:33

continuous so it's the difference

0:34:35

between discrete fluid dynamics

0:34:39

and maybe arithmetic

0:34:41

with uh legos or something you know it's

0:34:46

you're like well legos is fine yeah it's

0:34:48

fine for third graders

0:34:52

but legos you can't design a rocket

0:34:55

nozzle with legos right

0:34:57

you're not going to design the wing of a

0:34:59

supersonic airfoil with legos

0:35:06

you know you need continuous fluid

0:35:06

dynamics

0:35:08

you need more optionality right again

0:35:11

we're back to this

0:35:12

there's some core point here where

0:35:15

again earlier the customer optionality

0:35:17

to withdraw their bitcoin out of the

0:35:19

bank at any time

0:35:21

keeps the service provider honest

0:35:23

yeah so then the service providers

0:35:25

actually have to compete for the

0:35:26

business which gives us lower prices

0:35:29

better services more innovation more

0:35:31

wealth more freedom

0:35:33

and it's it's this it all it's all

0:35:35

rooted in this precision

0:35:39

of customer choice right where the

0:35:41

similar with the legos you don't have as

0:35:43

much options with a big block but if

0:35:45

you're at the molecular level of the

0:35:46

fluid you have a lot of optionality

0:35:49

there is a dance between counter parties

0:35:55

you know are you dancing you know using

0:35:59

two ton granite blocks

0:36:02

or are you dancing

0:36:04

you know using water are you dancing

0:36:07

with air

0:36:09

and what what what structures can you

0:36:11

create

0:36:17

you know if we take all those things

0:36:19

together

0:36:20

and you consider the consequences for

0:36:23

distribution right bitcoin is something

0:36:26

that can be distributed to everybody on

0:36:28

earth for free effectively free so it's

0:36:31

truly liquid what i need is if i wanted

0:36:34

to distribute something to 8 billion

0:36:36

people and i wanted

0:36:39

8 billion transactions an hour forever

0:36:43

like i want that degree of fluidity

0:36:46

i need to do it at the price of a

0:36:48

satoshi a transaction i need to do it

0:36:51

very low friction so the so

0:36:55

this low transport cost this low

0:36:58

friction results in massive distribution

0:37:01

and we can see with gold for example

0:37:03

there isn't one ounce of gold for

0:37:05

everybody in the world to give them and

0:37:07

so there's no way to distribute money

0:37:09

with gold

0:37:11

and if we take fiat we know there's 1.7

0:37:13

billion people that are unbanked

0:37:17

maybe more

0:37:18

right and so

0:37:20

and and we know the ones that are banked

0:37:22

are imperfectly banked and the banks

0:37:24

don't cross-connect so

0:37:28

we can't find a good way to distribute

0:37:31

money via fiat or by a goal but via

0:37:34

bitcoin we do have a clear way

0:37:37

and i mean the last element is this

0:37:39

division right the ability to break it

0:37:41

down i can't break down a gold bar a

0:37:43

gold coin

0:37:49

i can sort of break down fiat but in it

0:37:49

but even one penny is like too much

0:37:51

sometimes

0:37:52

being able to go to one satoshi is

0:37:54

better than one penny

0:37:57

especially

0:37:59

because of this one thing

0:38:01

one of the big problems in cyber

0:38:03

security

0:38:04

is um

0:38:07

spamming and scamming

0:38:10

i i can't use the dms of my instagram

0:38:14

because they're all 99 of the

0:38:16

communication is spam or scam

0:38:20

i can't really use the dms of

0:38:22

non-verified or non-followed individuals

0:38:25

in twitter because of the same thing

0:38:28

i can't really use email

0:38:31

without very expensive email filters

0:38:34

that are continually filtering out spam

0:38:37

and scam and the like so there's there's

0:38:39

massive amounts of cyber insecurity

0:38:46

every single day if you have a website

0:38:46

it gets attacked sometimes by a denial

0:38:48

of service attack

0:38:49

there are all sorts of hostile actors

0:38:51

that will do ddos attacks all the time

0:38:54

the reason for

0:38:55

for uh ddos attacks and scam and spam

0:39:00

is there's no cost

0:39:03

right

0:39:04

to attack it there's no skin in the game

0:39:07

and so

0:39:08

what we need is to introduce skin in the

0:39:11

game the way to do it is to require a

0:39:13

value exchange

0:39:15

whenever you move to a router if you

0:39:18

if you had to

0:39:21

uh to pay a price to send a message

0:39:25

at some point you would attenuate large

0:39:28

amounts of that scammy spammy activity

0:39:31

and that's why proof of work was

0:39:32

invented in the first place right adam

0:39:34

back was trying to come up with a

0:39:35

solution

0:39:37

to stop spam

0:39:39

but the other thing you can do is is um

0:39:43

you can actually tie um

0:39:47

the value say

0:39:49

a hundred thousand satoshi's as a

0:39:52

security deposit into your persona

0:39:55

online

0:39:57

if you if you posted a hundred thousand

0:40:00

satoshi's

0:40:02

to your twitter account

0:40:04

and if they gave you an orange check

0:40:07

and that was your security deposit then

0:40:10

the understanding would be you know if

0:40:12

you misbehave you get fined

0:40:15

and if you're a malicious actor

0:40:18

you know maybe you forfeit the security

0:40:20

deposit

0:40:21

this is the way it works when you're

0:40:23

renting a home

0:40:24

yeah this is the way it works in in

0:40:27

in all

0:40:29

all the real world you're a bonded

0:40:31

laborer

0:40:32

this is you can't drive a car without

0:40:34

proof of insurance

0:40:37

right i mean so we have these kind of

0:40:39

insurance policies or security deposits

0:40:42

or performance bonds

0:40:44

that pop up all through the real world

0:40:46

economy and in the absence of all of

0:40:49

those because you're a real world actor

0:40:53

you have a risk and the risk is if you

0:40:55

misbehave you have culpability you're

0:40:57

responsible you may get pulled over by a

0:41:04

if you say something rude to somebody's

0:41:04

wife you may get punched in the face

0:41:06

i mean you have you have either economic

0:41:09

skin in the game or you have actual skin

0:41:11

in the game right if you walk out onto a

0:41:13

bridge that's rickety and you screw

0:41:16

around and do backflips and you fall off

0:41:18

the bridge you may die yeah there are

0:41:20

consequences in the real world and the

0:41:22

economic world but there are no

0:41:23

consequences in cyberspace for many of

0:41:26

these activities

0:41:28

and so the result is people actually

0:41:30

even create programs to create bots yes

0:41:33

and i might spit out a hundred million

0:41:36

fake michael sailors that do irrational

0:41:39

malicious things and they're not even me

0:41:41

they can't die

0:41:43

right and the the result of that that by

0:41:46

the way when you do that that's a denial

0:41:48

of service attack

0:41:54

the result of that is cyber insecurity

0:41:54

so the fluidity

0:41:57

the speed and the efficiency of the

0:42:01

bitcoin lightning network

0:42:05

has has the potential to give us a

0:42:07

solution to the cyber security problem

0:42:10

if we simply start to tie

0:42:13

a small lightning wallet or or an amount

0:42:17

into some of these systems that youtube

0:42:20

google and facebook and amazon and apple

0:42:23

and twitter and

0:42:25

medium and reddit

0:42:27

all these other places where people are

0:42:29

you know there's not a day that goes by

0:42:30

that someone doesn't post a michael

0:42:32

saylor video on youtube offering to get

0:42:34

your free bitcoin

0:42:36

like that's not me yeah yeah

0:42:39

but there's no verification on youtube

0:42:42

or registration so if you had to

0:42:44

actually post some deposit and if you

0:42:47

were forfeited the deposit but by the

0:42:50

it's not that they don't take down the

0:42:52

accounts they do

0:42:54

um they take them down within a day

0:42:57

of when i report them every day there's

0:42:59

10 michael saylor accounts that get

0:43:01

taken down on twitter it's just there's

0:43:02

no economic cost right exactly i mean i

0:43:06

i understated that really the truth is

0:43:08

in my news feed there's a thousand fake

0:43:11

michaels that have stolen my image and

0:43:13

my name

0:43:15

if you charged them all a quarter each

0:43:19

it would become a massive revenue source

0:43:21

for twitter the scammers would

0:43:23

immediately realize that there's a cost

0:43:26

to attack the system yes

0:43:28

the amount of malicious behavior would

0:43:30

drop by 99

0:43:33

this is a tragedy of the commons

0:43:35

effectively right the free loader

0:43:37

problem where there's no cost to these

0:43:39

imitators so they just keep repeating it

0:43:41

and apparently it's a profitable

0:43:43

enterprise because to your point there's

0:43:45

new ones every day

0:43:47

and this

0:43:48

and so the reason it exists is because

0:43:50

the fiat standard system makes it too

0:43:52

difficult to actually post something of

0:43:54

monetary value right

0:43:57

the only way you can post something of

0:43:58

monetary value in the fiat standard is

0:44:00

with a credit card and you dox yourself

0:44:02

and then you're not anonymous anymore

0:44:04

and so that's offensive to one group of

0:44:07

people that don't want to be

0:44:09

identified they want privacy but it's

0:44:11

also prohibitive to another group of

0:44:13

people that don't have a credit card

0:44:16

and a third group of people that have a

0:44:17

credit card but the credit card won't

0:44:19

clear across nation-state boundaries

0:44:20

boundaries

0:44:26

bitcoin solves that problem

0:44:27

and it fixes it so on one hand

0:44:31

one extreme

0:44:32

benefit is yeah bitcoin's a way to store

0:44:35

a billion dollars for a hundred years

0:44:37

on the other extreme bitcoins a way for

0:44:40

everybody on twitter to post 30 cents

0:44:44

in order to eliminate

0:44:46

99.9 percent of the malicious behavior

0:44:50

and improve the quality experience

0:44:52

now back to your dance

0:44:59

if twitter can ask for a hundred

0:44:59

thousand satoshi deposit

0:45:01

and if people give it and if twitter's

0:45:03

quality of service goes up by an order

0:45:05

of magnitude and their cyber security

0:45:07

enhances that might put pressure on

0:45:09

instagram

0:45:11

that might put pressure on google

0:45:13

and ultimately now what you have is

0:45:16

every big tech company competing with

0:45:18

every other tech company to improve

0:45:20

their service by building bitcoin

0:45:23

and their service

0:45:25

because bitcoin can eliminate uh fraud

0:45:29

on youtube

0:45:31

and bitcoin can eliminate fraud and

0:45:33

cyber insecurity on instagram

0:45:41

and so you you've got you've got

0:45:41

something

0:45:42

it's like why why do i adopt this new

0:45:45

technology

0:45:46

because i can or because i need to

0:45:49

the early adopter does it because you

0:45:51

can and the later adopters do it because

0:45:55

because they need to a paypal doesn't

0:45:56

roll out bitcoin and square does

0:46:00

then square starts to eat paypal's lunch

0:46:02

right and the paypal and square both

0:46:04

roll out bitcoin and apple and google

0:46:07

don't

0:46:08

right then they're

0:46:09

at a loss right so you have competition

0:46:13

that's embracing new technology to

0:46:15

progress the civilization to a better

0:46:17

space bitcoin's the future for cyber

0:46:21

it's it's the promise of cyber security

0:46:23

right in fact that that's the great

0:46:25

irony

0:46:27

criticize bitcoin as maybe being a tool

0:46:29

of of cyber hackers

0:46:31

but but the but the ultimate destiny of

0:46:33

bitcoin is to make cyberspace safe for

0:46:36

eight billion people yeah by building it

0:46:39

every cyber offering and creating

0:46:43

you know skin in the game

0:46:45

yes for every male factor

0:46:48

and consequences

0:46:51

that are not based upon counter party

0:46:54

risk and don't have to be threaded

0:46:56

through

0:46:57

nation states or central banks or a

0:46:59

credit card company

0:47:01

yeah it's it's truly

0:47:04

transformational and you know just

0:47:06

simply by introducing that risk of loss

0:47:08

for agents in the system

0:47:10

you're just incentivizing honesty which

0:47:12

is again kind of this grand theme with

0:47:14

bitcoin

0:47:16

uh and one other benefit that

0:47:18

you know this is kind of just a promise

0:47:20

of bitcoin now it's still experimental

0:47:21

but the idea of building social media

0:47:24

applications on top of the lightning

0:47:26

network in a way that they are actually

0:47:28

censorship resistant

0:47:29

i think that experimentation is very

0:47:31

important

0:47:33

especially as we see more people being

0:47:35

de-platformed canceled censored etc

0:47:38

um so it seems like there's this

0:47:40

potential for bitcoin to restore

0:47:43

honest you know unstoppable discourse in

0:47:46

the digital age

0:47:48

yeah bitcoins bitcoin is the crypto

0:47:51

asset network and

0:47:53

lightning is this uh crypto transaction

0:47:56

network

0:47:57

and it's possible for us to have other

0:47:59

crypto application networks to

0:48:01

decentralize

0:48:03

uh open

0:48:05

non-custodial and and they all have

0:48:07

promise

0:48:08

based upon the core idea

0:48:12

if we wrap up this entire bitcoin

0:48:15

standard discussion why does bitcoin

0:48:17

succeed in theory

0:48:20

because the base layer protocol is

0:48:22

mathematically sound and secure

0:48:25

and the application level layer protocol

0:48:29

sound

0:48:30

and it's open to upgrade

0:48:33

and the therefore the property rights

0:48:36

that it delivers are perfected and

0:48:38

they're open to upgrade

0:48:40

the open network

0:48:43

means that you can upgrade them and when

0:48:44

i say upgrade it you know maybe upgrade

0:48:46

means keep making the lightning network

0:48:48

better maybe upgrade means roll out

0:48:51

square cash app with cash tags maybe the

0:48:54

upgrade means building an apple pay

0:48:57

you know what does it mean it means a

0:48:59

hundred thousand different things

0:49:02

right there's a free market a darwinian

0:49:06

competition

0:49:07

to build

0:49:09

applications and other types of

0:49:11

platforms

0:49:14

that are upgrading the bitcoin protocol

0:49:18

and they're they're

0:49:19

they're drawing on uh the promise of

0:49:22

digital property in order to meet some

0:49:25

other

0:49:26

use case

0:49:28

and uh there'll be some that will

0:49:29

succeed there'll be so there's gonna be

0:49:31

exchanges that fail

0:49:33

some succeed

0:49:34

there's a hundred

0:49:36

thousand ways to think about a wallet

0:49:39

right some will be better than others

0:49:41

the market will sort it out we've got

0:49:44

we've got a very competitive darwinian

0:49:47

system

0:49:49

you know the the result is every

0:49:51

intelligent person that encounters

0:49:53

bitcoin

0:49:54

they're incentivized to find a way to

0:49:56

make bitcoin more valuable

0:49:59

and they might do it by a creative

0:50:01

financial application

0:50:03

they might do it with security

0:50:06

they might do it with a device they

0:50:07

might do it with

0:50:09

you know a software program they might

0:50:12

do it by plugging into a different

0:50:14

network a different way

0:50:16

and some ideas will be great ideas and

0:50:19

other ideas will be good ideas and some

0:50:21

ideas will be

0:50:22

bad ideas

0:50:24

and bitcoin will benefit from the good

0:50:26

ideas it will accelerate from the great

0:50:28

ideas and it will ignore

0:50:31

and slough off

0:50:33

the bad ideas

0:50:35

and uh

0:50:36

that's something that uh

0:50:39

the gold and fiat they don't have

0:50:41

working for them

0:50:44

right you could imagine

0:50:46

some gold applications but you were

0:50:48

crippled you know gold jewelry

0:50:52

gold goblets gold coins

0:50:55

and then that's the end of the road with

0:50:57

gold and with fiat applications we took

0:50:59

that much further you know heck we

0:51:01

created sovereign debt

0:51:03

we created all sorts of interesting

0:51:06

money markets and and all sorts of other

0:51:08

securities with fiat

0:51:11

we created travelers checks we created

0:51:13

credit cards

0:51:14

you can't say there aren't interesting

0:51:16

applications the entire visa and

0:51:18

mastercard network is

0:51:20

kind of a thing of awesome beauty if you

0:51:21

compare it to the system of roman gold

0:51:24

coinage

0:51:25

clearly yeah big advantage it got the

0:51:27

civilization of where it is

0:51:30

bitcoin is really just still early days

0:51:33

you know we're just into the second

0:51:35

decade

0:51:36

and um and these these applications

0:51:41

and these networks that'll be built on

0:51:43

are in some ways a blink of an eye

0:51:46

but you see

0:51:52

you see in the conventional world uh

0:51:52

companies like nidig and knight x built

0:51:56

a c5 platform and that platform

0:51:59

is being used to deploy bitcoin type

0:52:02

services to banks downstream

0:52:05

you know they've they've created a

0:52:06

platform so that you could create a

0:52:08

credit card that integrates with bitcoin

0:52:11

some way and

0:52:12

so that's layer two layer three

0:52:16

it's not it's a custodial layer too not

0:52:19

a non-custodial layer to it you have

0:52:21

counterparty risk in knightig

0:52:24

but there's nothing that says that it

0:52:25

couldn't become uh a non-custodial

0:52:29

lightning-based platform at some point

0:52:31

right who knows

0:52:33

but that's one approach and then

0:52:34

lightning is another approach to a layer

0:52:37

two a non-custodial decentralized

0:52:40

layer two

0:52:42

but you know that's not the only there's

0:52:43

no monopoly on this you know you could

0:52:46

create a competitor to it if you wanted

0:52:49

and then you can and then you can create

0:52:52

uh applications like square cache app

0:52:56

which is another kind of custodial

0:53:01

application but

0:53:03

it is an open custodial application so

0:53:07

to the extent that you want to you can

0:53:08

move your bitcoin out

0:53:11

and move it to another

0:53:13

another layer to platform or to another

0:53:16

application or

0:53:18

just take self-custody

0:53:20

so it's going to solve just different

0:53:21

ways that the network is evolving i was

0:53:24

just going to say even the custodial

0:53:25

risk is

0:53:27

different with bitcoin because it's

0:53:29

trivial to take delivery of it you know

0:53:32

it's cheap relatively cheap to secure

0:53:35

so even if you are taking some

0:53:37

counterparty risk with some of these

0:53:38

layer 2 layer 3 technologies

0:53:40

a lot of them can be set up to either

0:53:42

you withdrawal manually or even automate

0:53:44

the withdrawal into self-custody

0:53:47

yeah sometimes the hardcore bitcoiners

0:53:50

they're a little bit uh hard on

0:53:53

everybody

0:53:54

and uh it's like the perfect enemy of

0:53:56

the good

0:53:58

for example

0:53:59

if i buy the bitcoin and i trust a

0:54:01

counterparty for a week but i have the

0:54:04

option

0:54:05

to take it off the exchange or out of

0:54:07

the mobile app when i want

0:54:09

that's a totally different situation

0:54:11

than if i bought a million dollars worth

0:54:13

of land in california

0:54:16

right exactly you will never in a

0:54:18

million years be able to move the

0:54:21

million dollars of land in california

0:54:23

out of california right so

0:54:26

the custodial risk of a building

0:54:28

or land is orders of magnitude greater

0:54:32

you're trusting the mayor of the city

0:54:34

and the governor and the nation state

0:54:37

and every bureaucrat

0:54:40

and you're never going to change that

0:54:41

whereas

0:54:43

like even even if you bought bitcoin on

0:54:45

paypal when they didn't have the wire

0:54:47

out option

0:54:48

people like had a you know big fit on

0:54:51

twitter but the truth is

0:54:54

so you had some bitcoin on paypal and

0:54:56

for six months you couldn't uh take

0:54:58

custody of it and then after six months

0:55:00

because of the

0:55:01

the the big uh

0:55:03

the big

0:55:04

protest about it eventually they

0:55:06

upgraded their wallet and now you can

0:55:10

right so

0:55:12

so it is possible if you buy bitcoin

0:55:16

in certain places that you'll be able to

0:55:18

custody it or move it somewhere in the

0:55:21

next year or two or three years

0:55:23

but it's absolutely impossible that you

0:55:26

will ever you know convert a building in

0:55:28

new york city

0:55:30

you know into something which you know

0:55:32

moves at the speed of light on the

0:55:33

lightning network right

0:55:36

not not without selling it liquidating

0:55:38

it paying the capital gain tax on it and

0:55:40

converting it right so yeah

0:55:43

so i think that um

0:55:45

generally you know just about all these

0:55:48

flavors of bitcoin

0:55:50

you know are

0:55:52

our higher quality property

0:55:54

and even when you um

0:55:57

you know

0:55:58

sometimes people want to own the bitcoin

0:56:00

outright like and i get that because

0:56:01

like our company owns the bitcoin

0:56:03

outright because we want to be able to

0:56:05

transfer it to any counterparty and take

0:56:06

custody and do whatever we want with it

0:56:09

we want

0:56:10

sovereignty over it but

0:56:13

if you were to own bitcoin in a fund or

0:56:16

an etf

0:56:18

it's still higher it's the second

0:56:19

highest quality property you could own

0:56:22

it's not the it's not the best property

0:56:24

in the universe because the best

0:56:25

property in the universe is on the

0:56:26

bitcoin but the second best property in

0:56:29

the universe

0:56:30

is own a bitcoin derivative that's one

0:56:33

for one backed by bitcoin from a

0:56:36

counterparty that you can reasonably

0:56:37

trust

0:56:39

right and there are plenty of examples

0:56:41

where

0:56:42

people have buckets of money and they

0:56:44

can buy the security but they can't buy

0:56:46

the bitcoin

0:56:48

like like you it's unlike in some

0:56:50

retirement plan and yeah buy a security

0:56:52

b can't buy the bitcoin and there are

0:56:54

lots of investors

0:56:57

trillions and trillions of dollars of

0:56:59

money managers and they've raised money

0:57:02

i might have a hundred

0:57:03

i have 10 billion dollars in my

0:57:05

portfolio and because of tax code or

0:57:07

because of law

0:57:09

or because the contracts i have with my

0:57:11

limited partners or the charter i can't

0:57:14

buy the bitcoin but i can buy

0:57:17

a security based on bitcoin

0:57:21

and so the i mean the real world is

0:57:23

is a nuanced one where there are lots of

0:57:26

different types of capital

0:57:29

not all capital is fungible right not

0:57:32

if i have a billion dollars it doesn't

0:57:33

mean i can just convert a billion

0:57:35

dollars into bitcoin overnight i might

0:57:37

have a hundred million and all i can do

0:57:39

is buy land

0:57:41

and i might have another 100 million all

0:57:42

i can do is buy a security

0:57:45

and i might have

0:57:46

another 100 million and all i can buy is

0:57:49

if that was the case

0:57:51

i would prefer to have debt backed by

0:57:52

bitcoin land underneath the bitcoin

0:57:55

miner

0:57:56

and a security that is a bitcoin backed

0:57:58

security because those three things

0:58:01

would be sitting on a stronger

0:58:03

foundation

0:58:04

of collateral

0:58:07

than to buy three things that have no

0:58:10

relationship to bitcoin

0:58:12

and uh and so

0:58:15

that's one that's the value of bitcoin

0:58:18

ultimately

0:58:23

you compare gold standard to fiat

0:58:23

standard to bitcoin standard and your

0:58:25

conclusion is

0:58:28

bitcoin is is simply digital money and

0:58:31

digital money is

0:58:33

is an engineered system to create

0:58:37

a shared immutable

0:58:39

correct

0:58:41

ledger

0:58:43

if you were satoshi and you were doing

0:58:44

it again

0:58:46

your checklist would be

0:58:48

okay how do i make it shared and open

0:58:51

uh how do i keep it from changing

0:58:55

you know

0:58:56

how do i make it mathematically correct

0:58:59

and then what kind of things can i put

0:59:01

in it that will cause the entire world

0:59:03

to want to protect it and secure it and

0:59:05

improve it over time

0:59:07

instead of attack it and destroy it

0:59:10

and i think that's what

0:59:12

satoshi created

0:59:14

this this engineered

0:59:16

digital digital asset network that

0:59:20

happens to make

0:59:21

the perfect monitor the best monetary

0:59:24

system that the human race has come up

0:59:27

if there's ever a better one

0:59:29

you'll start from those principles right

0:59:32

of digital money

0:59:34

and you'll say

0:59:36

how do i make it

0:59:38

better

0:59:40

you know and you you could imagine maybe

0:59:43

something better but what's most likely

0:59:45

to happen is is the bitcoin blockchain

0:59:48

just migrates into the better thing

0:59:51

that's right and it and it goes on

0:59:54

right yeah yeah the ad activity injects

0:59:57

itself into the better thing and carries

0:59:59

on i don't know why it wouldn't last

1:00:01

thousands and thousands of years yeah

1:00:04

yeah you would you would assume that the

1:00:05

utxo set would just migrate wherever it

1:00:08

needed to go um again is that that open

1:00:11

source adaptivity of bitcoin makes it

1:00:14

seemingly

1:00:15

disruption proof

1:00:17

because what can you do how do you

1:00:18

disrupt it i mean

1:00:21

it's really interesting and um

1:00:23

i think this is a brilliant way to look

1:00:25

at it

1:00:27

so one last

1:00:29

question here

1:00:34

clearly

1:00:34

it is superior property for all the

1:00:36

reasons we've laid out

1:00:37

what is the impediment

1:00:40

to people understanding this is it just

1:00:42

the i guess the proof of work necessary

1:00:45

to study bitcoin to understand all of

1:00:47

this or

1:00:49

or is it a misunderstanding of property

1:00:51

is it a combination

1:00:57

i think it's uh

1:00:59

it's just the rate at which the human

1:01:02

race can embrace a profound idea

1:01:10

there there's the speed of light and

1:01:10

that's a limit you know einstein spent a

1:01:13

lot of time talking about

1:01:15

and the speed of light is kind of the

1:01:17

rate at which the universe can

1:01:19

communicate you know

1:01:22

with itself

1:01:25

and the speed of sound

1:01:27

and that you know

1:01:29

the speed of sound is is the mechanical

1:01:33

at which uh air can communicate

1:01:36

right if you're moving faster than the

1:01:38

speed of sound you're arriving before

1:01:41

the molecules can get out of the way

1:01:44

and that's why there's a shock wave

1:01:47

because you're moving too fast

1:01:50

you can't you know the speed of light is

1:01:51

like that's the speed limit

1:01:53

now there's a speed

1:01:56

a a a speed uh through of which an idea

1:02:00

can move through a socio-political

1:02:02

economic fluid that we call a culture

1:02:06

how fast

1:02:08

can um

1:02:09

can an idea move through a culture and

1:02:12

it would be a function i think of

1:02:15

you know cognitive bandwidth of human

1:02:17

beings

1:02:18

and distraction and life expectancy of

1:02:21

human beings

1:02:23

and how fast they speak

1:02:27

with each other

1:02:28

and how much you sleep

1:02:31

you know and if you ever look at you

1:02:32

know look at animals

1:02:34

you ever see you know some of the

1:02:35

animals the smaller ones seem to move

1:02:37

faster than you and me

1:02:39

all right right

1:02:40

they've you know they're at a much

1:02:41

different frequency yes

1:02:44

right they can agree disagree karine

1:02:47

into uh you know into a brick wall come

1:02:50

back regroup karine into another one

1:02:53

agree again and move forward all in the

1:02:55

amount of time that we're deciding

1:02:57

whether we should make a

1:03:04

it's decision frequency yeah

1:03:04

so this is socio-political frequency

1:03:08

and on the history of science the

1:03:10

structure of scientific revolutions you

1:03:13

know they just speculate

1:03:15

you know generally new paradigms they

1:03:18

take place when the entire older old

1:03:20

generation dies

1:03:22

so 30 years

1:03:23

a generation is reasonable because in 30

1:03:26

years an entirely new group of decision

1:03:28

makers take over the government

1:03:36

right the person running the army is 50

1:03:36

and the 20 year old will be running the

1:03:38

army in 50 years because because that's

1:03:40

a life expectancy or the career

1:03:42

expectancy

1:03:43

so normally

1:03:46

it's life expectancy to take a paradigm

1:03:49

shift or generational expectancy about

1:03:51

30 years

1:03:53

but sometimes if there's a war certain

1:03:55

things get jammed faster and they get

1:03:58

jammed faster because your life

1:03:59

expectancy on normandy beach wasn't 30

1:04:02

years

1:04:03

right

1:04:04

right i mean if you if you do something

1:04:06

egregiously

1:04:10

assuming that you cling to horses and

1:04:13

you reject machine guns

1:04:16

that was an irrational behavior that

1:04:19

could last from you know 1905 to 1914

1:04:25

but it didn't last from 1914 to 1915.

1:04:29

[Music]

1:04:30

right because there was a war

1:04:33

right and there was like an instant

1:04:36

and you know instant consequence

1:04:39

so i i think that uh

1:04:41

that war and disruption

1:04:44

accelerates consequence

1:04:47

and the absence of that is a

1:04:49

generational thing

1:04:50

and then you'd have to crank in you know

1:04:53

the rate at which information moves now

1:04:57

like for example i i feel like

1:04:59

information moves on youtube much faster

1:05:02

now than five years ago or 10 years ago

1:05:05

yes information moves on twitter faster

1:05:11

yeah there's almost this

1:05:11

liquidity coefficient for ideas that has

1:05:14

just gone through the roof with digital

1:05:17

so i mean it used to be someone would

1:05:19

retire and they go back to harvard

1:05:21

university and they're going to teach

1:05:23

okay so you retire and you're going to

1:05:25

teach from age 60 to age

1:05:27

or age 50 to age 80. so you teach for 30

1:05:30

years and you have

1:05:32

100 students a year

1:05:35

200 students a year

1:05:37

and so you spend 30 years of your life

1:05:39

and after 30 years of your life you've

1:05:42

taught 10 000 people yeah

1:05:45

[Music]

1:05:47

and now

1:05:49

you know you get 10 000 views on a

1:05:51

podcast and that's like that's a

1:05:53

boutique thing right yes

1:05:57

so information is moving at a broader

1:06:00

scale there's there's a much more

1:06:02

competitive battle over ideas

1:06:06

good ideas travel faster

1:06:10

mediocre ideas don't travel at all they

1:06:12

get stamped out

1:06:14

the race is evolving a bit faster but

1:06:16

but having said all that

1:06:21

you know

1:06:21

like warren buffett still got a lot of

1:06:23

money right

1:06:28

like he's still got a lot of money

1:06:28

has he listened to 10 hours of content

1:06:30

on bitcoin yet

1:06:33

probably not right

1:06:35

no probably not

1:06:36

so somebody controls a hundred billion

1:06:39

dollars

1:06:41

and they haven't spent 10 hours thinking

1:06:43

about it

1:06:46

so what what happens well that hundred

1:06:48

billion dollars would be locked in the

1:06:49

old system until

1:06:52

some kind of cataclysmic change takes

1:06:55

place right

1:06:56

so i i think that um

1:07:04

it's reasonable to to expect it takes a

1:07:04

decade

1:07:10

decade until

1:07:10

you think

1:07:13

maturity i mean clearly not full

1:07:14

maturity but um it took one decade for

1:07:17

the thing to become

1:07:20

look at the lifestyle cycle of google

1:07:23

you know weren't they found like 1998

1:07:27

something like that yeah so a little shy

1:07:29

of 25 years

1:07:32

the first decade they were they were

1:07:34

growing fast but people weren't

1:07:36

convinced that google was going to

1:07:39

rule the earth right right

1:07:42

the second decade

1:07:45

now we're the end of the second decade

1:07:46

and now what do you think of google yeah

1:07:49

so i mean i think normally 10 years you

1:07:52

know to to get going and then the next

1:07:54

10 years is the big ten years right so

1:07:57

this is it

1:07:59

i think we just finished year one of the

1:08:01

second decade

1:08:02

gotcha you know year one started like

1:08:05

black thursday

1:08:07

right yes march last year you know and

1:08:11

think about everything that happened

1:08:13

between that march and the next march

1:08:16

such an inflection point

1:08:19

for digital technology the digital age

1:08:23

and for distrust in analog institutions

1:08:28

you know that it just seems like they

1:08:30

both diverged

1:08:32

almost in an instant

1:08:39

okay guys that was episode 12 of the

1:08:39

sailor series

1:08:41

and once again mr sailor brings the heat

1:08:43

uh this time exploring bitcoin as an

1:08:46

alternative to both gold and fiat

1:08:49

so we started the conversation here with

1:08:52

a very important concept

1:08:54

and we saw this with

1:08:56

gold and fiat right the gold and

1:08:59

currency rather

1:09:01

and that money tends to be implemented

1:09:03

in layers right we had gold as kind of a

1:09:06

base layer of money historically

1:09:08

but as we've covered because it was

1:09:09

limited in its transactability across

1:09:11

space we had to abstract gold into a

1:09:13

layer two

1:09:15

currency application to be more

1:09:17

transactable across space so we find an

1:09:20

analogy for that in bitcoin actually you

1:09:22

know bitcoin

1:09:24

layer one this is the bitcoin blockchain

1:09:27

this is

1:09:29

the equivalent of gold right you have

1:09:32

somewhat slower settlement although it's

1:09:34

still many orders of magnitude faster

1:09:37

than physical gold

1:09:39

um but the

1:09:41

the energy expenditure and the slowness

1:09:43

of settlement and consensus on the base

1:09:46

chain is what gives it rigidity

1:09:49

certainty integrity security reliability

1:09:52

dependability all of these features you

1:09:55

in uh in money right it's a place you're

1:09:58

storing your wealth you want to know

1:09:59

that it's resistant to all forms of

1:10:02

corruption manipulation distortion etc

1:10:05

and that

1:10:06

degree of assurance has a cost and the

1:10:09

cost is

1:10:11

proof of work right you have to actually

1:10:14

expend energy to

1:10:17

uh create assurances of supply

1:10:20

limitation so

1:10:22

to ensure that bitcoin adheres to its

1:10:24

fixed cap it's fixed money supply of 21

1:10:27

million

1:10:28

the only way we know how to do that

1:10:31

as a species is through energy

1:10:33

expenditure

1:10:35

don't let anyone else fool you about

1:10:37

this uh

1:10:39

for reasons you know sailor goes into

1:10:41

much more deeply

1:10:42

proof of work is the only established

1:10:44

consensus mechanism for guarantee

1:10:46

guaranteeing a fixed supply money

1:10:50

it is proof of work that makes bitcoin

1:10:53

thermodynamically sound money right it's

1:10:55

secured by energy by necessity

1:10:58

and there's a deeper point here in that

1:11:01

you know work is the only thing you

1:11:03

cannot counterfeit

1:11:06

right this is you could think about this

1:11:07

in a physical sense right you can't

1:11:10

um just work out really hard for a week

1:11:13

and get in really good shape right it

1:11:14

takes years of dedication and training

1:11:18

and persistence

1:11:19

to actually

1:11:20

uh look athletic right you have to

1:11:23

actually become athletic to look

1:11:24

athletic so there's a proof of work

1:11:26

involved

1:11:27

with becoming physically fit

1:11:29

in the same way that there is with

1:11:32

guaranteeing the quality of something

1:11:34

else like a money supply

1:11:37

and this is important

1:11:39

that work cannot be counterfeit because

1:11:41

that's exactly what the central bank is

1:11:43

doing

1:11:45

it's a centralized legalized currency

1:11:48

counterfeiting operation right it's

1:11:50

generating a new supply of money with no

1:11:53

energy expenditure no work outlay

1:11:55

whatsoever and this that is the reason

1:11:58

right because there is no cost

1:12:00

associated with expanding the money

1:12:01

supply

1:12:03

that the central bank is in a privileged

1:12:06

legal position to confiscate wealth from

1:12:09

the entire productive economy this is

1:12:11

the core reason there is no proof of

1:12:14

in fiat currency

1:12:16

and that's what bitcoin's fixing right

1:12:19

so bitcoin

1:12:21

uses this consensus mechanism to

1:12:24

hold a fixed supply

1:12:27

and this is optimizing its ability as

1:12:30

money to express value across time so

1:12:33

that is what layer one is optimizing for

1:12:35

the expression of value across time just

1:12:37

like gold was

1:12:39

and then at the application layer layer

1:12:41

two we see things emerging

1:12:44

that are trading off some of that trust

1:12:46

minimization or assurance

1:12:49

right in that instead of

1:12:51

um not needing to trust anyone you just

1:12:54

you're trusting the bitcoin code and the

1:12:56

mining network which is um the

1:13:00

incentives of the mining network are

1:13:02

aligned with their own self-interest so

1:13:03

you're basically trusting the

1:13:04

self-interest of minors to preserve the

1:13:07

integrity of the blockchain

1:13:09

at layer two you're actually trading

1:13:10

away some of that trust to instead

1:13:12

depend on smart contracts with something

1:13:14

like lightning network which is this

1:13:17

lattice of interconnected smart

1:13:18

contracts that allows you to

1:13:21

send bitcoin around the world at very

1:13:23

high speed so lighting network would be

1:13:25

kind of an analogy to currency

1:13:28

but again with orders of magnitude more

1:13:31

efficiency

1:13:33

you know again

1:13:35

i think the

1:13:37

you have to check my numbers on this but

1:13:39

i think when the lightning network

1:13:40

reaches a certain level of network

1:13:42

density meaning enough people have

1:13:44

adopted it and there's enough channels

1:13:46

uh interconnected that the transaction

1:13:49

throughput goes to near infinite and the

1:13:51

transaction cost is basically near zero

1:13:54

so you're getting like this perfected

1:13:56

currency this digital currency

1:13:58

application

1:13:59

um via the lightning network on top of

1:14:02

the assurances of bitcoin

1:14:05

core the blockchain

1:14:07

and what this

1:14:08

the trust is preserved in this system

1:14:11

because participants on the lightning

1:14:13

network maintain the option

1:14:16

to settle to the bitcoin blair one

1:14:19

blockchain at any time at their own

1:14:20

discretion

1:14:21

so again this is a very important point

1:14:23

we hit on a lot this optionality

1:14:25

preserves honesty

1:14:27

so if you know we're

1:14:29

uh both routing transactions on

1:14:31

lightning uh which is the rough analogy

1:14:33

here is like if you imagine an abacus

1:14:36

you and i both fund our channel with one

1:14:38

bitcoin we can then slide beads back and

1:14:41

forth across that abacus

1:14:46

kind of like a credit or debt based

1:14:46

system effectively but either one of us

1:14:48

can settle to the main chain at any time

1:14:50

so there's no there's

1:14:53

pretty much an inability to corrupt that

1:14:56

that transaction mechanism and so that

1:14:59

abacus connection then gets scaled out

1:15:01

to an entire network

1:15:03

of peers which is the lightning network

1:15:06

so this

1:15:07

so you have the

1:15:08

optimization

1:15:10

for expression of value across time at

1:15:12

layer one with bitcoin and its fixed

1:15:14

supply of 21 million

1:15:16

which comes with limitations right these

1:15:18

are thermodynamic engineering

1:15:20

limitations that you can't move it

1:15:22

uh as quickly across space right it

1:15:24

takes time to settle to the base chain

1:15:26

you know typically it's six

1:15:27

confirmations which is roughly 60

1:15:28

minutes

1:15:29

but you can trade off some of that

1:15:31

security assurance into something like

1:15:33

the lightning network or other protocols

1:15:35

there's many in development we're just

1:15:36

talking about lightning today because

1:15:37

it's the most sophisticated so far

1:15:40

and pick up you know near

1:15:43

perfect transit transactability across

1:15:45

space

1:15:46

uh while giving off some of that

1:15:48

insurance

1:15:49

across time so what you're getting here

1:15:51

in the the integration of these two

1:15:53

systems layer one layer two is you know

1:15:56

an optimized money effectively you've

1:15:58

got something that holds its value

1:15:59

perfectly across time

1:16:01

and you've got something that moves or

1:16:03

expresses value across space uh as

1:16:05

nearly as perfectly as as we figured out

1:16:07

so far

1:16:11

this is um

1:16:12

it's a really profound invention um

1:16:16

and so

1:16:22

i think the the other point here is that

1:16:22

you know the lightning network we said

1:16:23

we're funding this with bitcoin so again

1:16:26

the the analogy here was

1:16:29

we had to custody to centralize the

1:16:31

custody of gold into warehouses and then

1:16:33

those warehouse operators issued

1:16:34

receipts

1:16:36

for gold those were the call options on

1:16:38

gold that became bank notes became

1:16:41

currencies ultimately

1:16:44

that's essentially we're replicating

1:16:46

that model but in digital space with a

1:16:48

lightning network

1:16:50

the difference being that you have this

1:16:53

instant option for final settlement at

1:16:55

any time which was not something that

1:16:57

the warehouse operation could offer

1:16:59

right you had to actually take the paper

1:17:01

back to the warehouse redeem the

1:17:02

physical gold

1:17:03

and then if you wanted to transact in

1:17:05

the gold again

1:17:06

seamlessly and conveniently you actually

1:17:08

had to take it back to the custodian put

1:17:10

the gold on deposit take the paper

1:17:12

receipts and transact with those

1:17:14

so this

1:17:16

combination of layer one layer two

1:17:18

technology and bitcoin

1:17:20

gives us an instant global

1:17:23

final settlement system

1:17:24

i mean it's something like we've never

1:17:27

seen before

1:17:28

and that that optionality

1:17:31

right to again to call

1:17:33

to settle to the base chain whenever you

1:17:36

this is keeping the whole system honest

1:17:39

maybe another way to think about this is

1:17:41

you can basically call someone's bluff

1:17:44

right like at any time you can call

1:17:45

their bluff so

1:17:48

and this is kind of a rough analogy

1:17:49

because i don't think in the lightning

1:17:50

network there's a lot of

1:17:52

latitude as far as manipulating these

1:17:54

contracts but because there are more

1:17:56

features in these smart contracts

1:17:59

there is in theory more attack surface

1:18:01

right there's more opportunity for

1:18:03

software engineers to to um

1:18:07

to mess with things let's say so it's

1:18:08

not as trustless as the base chain

1:18:12

so i think that is a useful way to look

1:18:14

at it um

1:18:17

and so we have a money that's evolving

1:18:19

in layers so anytime someone's

1:18:21

decrying bitcoin at the base layer like

1:18:25

you have to you have to have this

1:18:26

knowledge of how

1:18:27

monetary systems work they work in

1:18:29

layers

1:18:30

and different layers are designed to

1:18:33

satisfy different functions of money

1:18:35

right in this case we're talking about

1:18:36

time versus space

1:18:38

so that gets us into the discussion on

1:18:41

why bitcoin succeeds um sailor laid out

1:18:44

a number of good points here

1:18:47

the first being that you know it's the

1:18:49

end of inflation essentially bitcoin

1:18:52

eradicates the concept of unpredictable

1:18:54

supply inflation we all know

1:18:57

with perfect certainty essentially that

1:18:59

21 million will ever exist

1:19:01

no more no less

1:19:03

um i guess you could say less actually

1:19:04

when when coins are lost

1:19:06

or destroyed

1:19:08

which would be sent to a burner address

1:19:10

and one has the keys to you're actually

1:19:11

contracting the total money supply

1:19:14

downward from 21 million

1:19:16

and this has an anti-dilutive effect on

1:19:18

holders so

1:19:20

every time someone burns a bitcoin

1:19:22

they're basically making a pro-rata

1:19:23

contribution to all other bitcoin

1:19:25

holders because it's increasing the

1:19:26

scarcity per coin effectively

1:19:30

and uh you know another reason

1:19:32

bitcoin succeeds is because it is the

1:19:34

ultimate

1:19:35

form of property

1:19:36

you know sailor spelled out it's got

1:19:39

non-physical nexus

1:19:41

it has this in-built security that's

1:19:43

independent

1:19:45

from the monopoly on violence so you

1:19:46

don't need

1:19:47

this political approval for the

1:19:50

relationship between you and your asset

1:19:52

which is property right property is the

1:19:54

relationship between owner and asset

1:19:56

you instead just need the security

1:20:00

that's built into the bitcoin blockchain

1:20:02

and possession of the private key right

1:20:05

so there's it's this radically new

1:20:07

property right a non-physical property

1:20:09

right with no physical nexus

1:20:12

and then very importantly

1:20:14

it's securable in any information

1:20:16

bearing medium which is just really

1:20:18

profound like it's an it's an

1:20:20

information bearer asset

1:20:23

so you can take this private key you can

1:20:24

chop it into pieces you can distribute

1:20:27

it geographically

1:20:28

you can put it you know you can encode

1:20:30

it in

1:20:32

publications or songs or any number

1:20:34

anything that can bear information which

1:20:35

is just opens up the

1:20:37

spectrum of possibility um

1:20:40

for securing your money

1:20:42

and so

1:20:43

and you know to that end sailor makes

1:20:45

this point that

1:20:46

you could even take bitcoin when you go

1:20:48

and if you put

1:20:49

private keys in your brain for instance

1:20:51

and you pass away then that's it

1:20:53

bitcoin's gone and you've taken it with

1:20:56

you effectively

1:20:58

and if the market's aware of that then

1:21:01

it's essentially once again

1:21:04

i guess actually even if the market's

1:21:05

not aware of it over the long run it

1:21:06

would be that anti-dilutive contribution

1:21:09

back to the market just because the

1:21:10

coins will never move

1:21:14

that would take some supply

1:21:17

out of the float which you know against

1:21:19

the same demand it actually increased

1:21:20

the purchasing power of bitcoin which is

1:21:22

really interesting

1:21:24

and the other point he makes which i

1:21:25

think is a really good one is that

1:21:28

hostile actors because they can't

1:21:31

take bitcoin from you involuntarily

1:21:35

that it actually bends the incentives

1:21:37

towards negotiation

1:21:39

whereas if you have physical gold

1:21:41

someone will just pop you and take it

1:21:43

right or physical cash

1:21:45

your bitcoin custodied properly can't be

1:21:48

confiscated that way so

1:21:50

what an attacker or transgressor would

1:21:52

do instead is they'd be incentivized to

1:21:54

negotiate with you

1:21:57

and that plays into a bigger theme we

1:21:58

talk about in a bit um

1:22:03

the next point we went into was the

1:22:05

hypothecation

1:22:07

of bitcoin and

1:22:09

you know with low transaction costs the

1:22:11

ability to withdraw 24x7

1:22:15

any would-be hypothecator is very likely

1:22:18

to be punished by the marketplace

1:22:21

um so another way to say this is you

1:22:24

with hyper mobile capital like bitcoin

1:22:27

that the user right either the user of

1:22:29

this custodial service or whatever you

1:22:31

know if it's the lightning network

1:22:33

um whatever service or function it is

1:22:36

they have

1:22:38

more optionality by virtue of bitcoin's

1:22:41

mobility

1:22:45

allows um

1:22:52

this allows customers more power in the

1:22:52

marketplace

1:22:53

and you could you could compare this to

1:22:55

something like the gold market

1:22:57

where gold again suffers in the

1:22:58

portability department right it's very

1:23:00

difficult to go and claim physical gold

1:23:02

it's expensive to move and settle et

1:23:03

cetera et cetera

1:23:05

and it is for that reason

1:23:07

that central banks have been so

1:23:09

successful

1:23:11

in manipulating the price of gold in the

1:23:13

derivatives markets right because what

1:23:15

it is you have a lot of paper

1:23:18

claims to gold these call options to

1:23:21

gold if you will floating around the

1:23:22

marketplace

1:23:24

but very little

1:23:26

little to

1:23:27

any physical settlement right there's

1:23:29

still some being conducted but not at a

1:23:30

high frequency enough

1:23:33

to to call the bluff right once again

1:23:35

the the with an inability

1:23:37

we'll say with immobility of capital

1:23:40

comes an inability to call a service

1:23:42

provider's bluff and what this does

1:23:45

as we explain

1:23:47

in prior episode this opens up this gap

1:23:50

between trade and settlement right

1:23:52

between

1:23:53

representation and execution between

1:23:56

what you say you're going to do and what

1:23:58

you actually do and in that gap

1:24:01

is where all the corruption and systemic

1:24:05

in the traditional financial system

1:24:07

fester right because there's all these

1:24:09

signals out there these non-costly

1:24:11

signals that aren't being rectified to

1:24:14

reality frequently enough so we get all

1:24:16

of this distortion in the marketplace

1:24:19

from this simple

1:24:20

technological limitation of gold which

1:24:23

is really mind-blowing you know if gold

1:24:25

were just

1:24:26

informational if it were just hyper

1:24:28

portable it would resolve a lot of these

1:24:30

issues

1:24:31

and that's exactly what we get in

1:24:32

bitcoin right we get

1:24:34

we get the properties that gold provides

1:24:36

us as money but perfected

1:24:39

effectively so

1:24:40

it is this uh destructive force to

1:24:44

corruption frankly in the traditional

1:24:46

financial system

1:24:48

and then you know say that makes it

1:24:50

further point that bitcoin's also

1:24:51

solving for authentication

1:24:55

you know

1:24:57

this is a big deal too like in

1:24:58

traditional markets especially if you've

1:24:59

ever bought or sold a house you've

1:25:01

probably dealt with title search

1:25:03

and what they're looking for there are

1:25:05

other

1:25:06

claims to the property effectively

1:25:09

but bitcoin by virtue of it being a

1:25:12

informational bearer asset

1:25:15

it is unencumbered by the act of

1:25:17

possessing it it's just as if you hold

1:25:19

you know physical gold bullion

1:25:22

the mere act of possessing that

1:25:23

presupposes your ownership of it so

1:25:25

that's very important this this

1:25:27

radically lowers transaction costs this

1:25:29

lowers legal costs disputes etc

1:25:32

um it just simplifies things and that

1:25:35

you can hold your wealth in a trust

1:25:37

minimized barrier asset that no one else

1:25:38

has claimed to

1:25:40

the end

1:25:41

um so that's that's very powerful and

1:25:44

there's other aspects to the

1:25:45

authentication as well that you you can

1:25:48

prove reserves actually so you can sign

1:25:50

a message on a bitcoin balance

1:25:53

and prove you have the balance that you

1:25:55

have control over the balance you

1:25:56

represent that you do

1:25:58

versus having to you know have an audit

1:26:00

or some other time consuming expensive

1:26:02

process you can just sign a message it's

1:26:04

that simple

1:26:07

and so that that's a big deal and then

1:26:09

you know we also made the point that

1:26:11

bitcoin is hyper transportable

1:26:14

uh which has all the benefits we've

1:26:15

outlined earlier but also

1:26:18

it contributes to this

1:26:20

more to optimizing this dance between

1:26:23

counterparties that sailor discussed and

1:26:25

this is

1:26:27

in many ways you could think of the

1:26:28

market process itself as one

1:26:31

giant um

1:26:33

decentrally choreographed dance between

1:26:36

counterparties right it's

1:26:42

countless service providers

1:26:42

providing goods and services to one

1:26:44

another but also exchanging you know

1:26:47

money

1:26:48

and contracts and trust and signals and

1:26:50

information to to coordinate their

1:26:52

efforts

1:26:53

and um

1:26:55

and you know i love the example we said

1:26:57

you can't make a tornado with gold

1:26:59

bricks but you could with water or wind

1:27:01

right so

1:27:02

if we think as money

1:27:05

if we think of money as these little

1:27:07

data packets

1:27:09

of veracity if you will right so it's

1:27:11

like if i send you money if i hand you a

1:27:13

gold coin

1:27:15

you don't need to trust me in any way

1:27:17

i've just authenticated to you that i

1:27:19

have the economic

1:27:20

value under my control

1:27:22

necessary to buy the good or service so

1:27:25

it's a little packet of truth

1:27:28

with bitcoin we get this very deeply

1:27:31

quantized packets these little packets

1:27:34

of veracity so this enables a much more

1:27:37

elaborate dance between counterparties

1:27:39

which is to say a much more

1:27:40

sophisticated market

1:27:42

as we know from economics the more you

1:27:45

can increase

1:27:46

the frequency and intensity of exchange

1:27:49

the more wealth you can create

1:27:52

so another way to say this is

1:27:55

the smaller and less expensive your

1:27:57

transactions are

1:27:58

the more rapidly people will trade the

1:28:00

more wealth they will generate so

1:28:04

just by virtue of being a much more

1:28:06

transactable money bitcoin promises to

1:28:08

usher in a boon in economic activity

1:28:14

you know it's further to that point

1:28:16

bitcoin becomes very distributable

1:28:17

because it has low transaction costs so

1:28:20

you know whereas we see

1:28:22

all the sort of cost headaches and

1:28:23

corruption associated with government

1:28:25

helicopter money currently

1:28:27

if they were instead on a bitcoin

1:28:29

standard

1:28:31

notwithstanding the possible

1:28:34

insolvency of the government in that

1:28:35

case they would be able to much more

1:28:38

easily distribute money if there were a

1:28:40

helicopter money like program on bitcoin

1:28:44

and uh also bitcoin's much more

1:28:47

divisible than physical gold you know

1:28:48

each unit is divisible into 100 million

1:28:50

subunits called satoshi's or sats

1:28:54

and with transaction costs

1:28:57

so low

1:28:59

uh you know they approached zero on lyra

1:29:00

two as we said earlier about lightning

1:29:02

network and with the the divisibility so

1:29:04

granular

1:29:05

this enables micro payments

1:29:07

micro payments are something they've

1:29:09

been talked about on the internet for a

1:29:10

long time but they've always suffered

1:29:12

from this problem of not being able to

1:29:14

overcome the fixed cost

1:29:16

that's amortized into them from the

1:29:18

legacy banking system

1:29:19

but with bitcoin micro payments become

1:29:21

possible because again we can get the

1:29:22

cost so low in the unit so small

1:29:25

and this is when

1:29:27

sailor took the discussion at bitcoin

1:29:29

fixing spamming and scamming

1:29:31

all right it's reintroducing

1:29:34

skin in the game which is to say

1:29:37

a balance of incentives and

1:29:39

disincentives for each economic agent

1:29:42

and that they are incented to behave

1:29:46

properly and disincented from

1:29:49

behaviors that would be harmful to the

1:29:50

network

1:29:52

and this that dynamic this is uh

1:29:54

something to lab writes about

1:29:56

extensively

1:29:57

it's inherent to and necessary for the

1:30:00

longevity of most systems i mean this is

1:30:03

like biological systems socioeconomic

1:30:05

systems

1:30:06

systems of all different varieties

1:30:10

it's very interesting that is another

1:30:12

one of those core principles of like

1:30:14

lacking skin in the game is the reason

1:30:16

we have so much corruption in the

1:30:17

financial system right if

1:30:19

if the central bank policymakers

1:30:22

bore the consequences of their

1:30:24

decision-making they would be much less

1:30:26

likely to engage in decisions

1:30:29

or execute decisions that would harm

1:30:32

the economic system but because they do

1:30:35

not suffer any consequences of their

1:30:36

decision making

1:30:38

that they

1:30:39

run rampant uh and expand the currency

1:30:41

supply like mad like we're seeing

1:30:43

currently

1:30:45

and this is

1:30:46

you know it's interesting that

1:30:50

and that you know he went into the

1:30:51

discussion of this fixing social media

1:30:53

as well and one aspect i found

1:30:55

interesting here is that

1:30:56

so with bitcoin itself you could say

1:31:00

early adopters are getting in it because

1:31:02

they figure it out right we figured out

1:31:04

the first properties of money and how

1:31:05

bitcoin is superior

1:31:09

they buy it because they can right like

1:31:11

you're betting on this future outcome

1:31:15

kind of based on a study of the history

1:31:16

of money and based on the technological

1:31:20

limitations of gold and the applications

1:31:23

and potential of bitcoin you sort of

1:31:24

make this risk-adjusted bet to buy it

1:31:29

should bitcoin succeed as we think it

1:31:31

will there there's going to be a cohort

1:31:33

of people that will buy it because they

1:31:35

need to buy it right you could say this

1:31:38

someone in a hyper uh in a in an economy

1:31:42

undergoing hyperinflation they will buy

1:31:44

bitcoin

1:31:45

just to escape the inflating currency

1:31:48

and be able to buy bread and water and

1:31:51

these staples of living so

1:31:53

there's this spectrum of

1:31:55

kind of early slower adoption

1:31:58

and at the other end of that spectrum is

1:32:00

this late

1:32:02

adoption under duress in a way but

1:32:04

sailor opened my mind to this

1:32:05

interesting in that

1:32:07

that not only occurs

1:32:09

at the monetary in the monetary use case

1:32:12

you will but it could also occur in the

1:32:13

social media use case that he lays out

1:32:16

where if twitter adopts bitcoin and

1:32:19

starts attaching

1:32:22

you know these these sat transactions if

1:32:24

you will to their messaging system or to

1:32:26

their commenting system or reputation

1:32:29

system whatever it may be

1:32:30

and it introduces this

1:32:32

incentive schema that promotes quality

1:32:35

discourse

1:32:36

and say they have success with that by

1:32:38

so so twitter has

1:32:40

created a more

1:32:43

uh honest environment for social media

1:32:47

by virtue of integrating to the bitcoin

1:32:49

system which is enabling micropayments

1:32:51

to be attached to all these messaging

1:32:52

services introducing risk of loss for

1:32:55

bad behavior once again

1:32:57

if they're successful with that

1:32:59

they're going to draw in more

1:33:01

advertising dollars right they're going

1:33:02

to draw in more user engagement they're

1:33:04

going to start to out compete say

1:33:06

instagram or something else so

1:33:08

there's this further dynamic to bitcoin

1:33:11

where an early adopter

1:33:13

again we're just focusing on the social

1:33:14

media application here but i'm sure

1:33:16

there's dozens of others in in the

1:33:17

digital space that they'll adopt it

1:33:20

because they can whereas later adopters

1:33:23

may have to adopt it because they need

1:33:25

to right just to remain competitively

1:33:27

relevant to deliver a a quality of

1:33:30

service similar to twitter instagram now

1:33:33

has to integrate to the bitcoin

1:33:34

blockchain um

1:33:37

and this is you know just an amazing

1:33:39

and little understood aspect of bitcoin

1:33:42

is that

1:33:43

you know as i think sailor said uh it

1:33:46

can make cyberspace a safe place for

1:33:49

eight billion people to interact

1:33:52

which is to say

1:33:53

we have a system

1:33:55

[Music]

1:33:56

and this is so fascinating about bitcoin

1:33:57

is that it's incentivizing

1:34:00

honest behavior at every level everyone

1:34:03

that touches bitcoin

1:34:05

their their incentives are shifted

1:34:07

towards honesty

1:34:08

because that is the only productive

1:34:10

strategy right even in this case we just

1:34:12

laid out where

1:34:13

a social media platform will actually

1:34:16

have to

1:34:17

reintroduce not reintroduced introduce

1:34:21

this cost of messaging

1:34:23

which increases the honesty and quality

1:34:26

of dialogue in their network but they

1:34:27

have to do that precisely because a

1:34:29

competitor already did it

1:34:31

and there was an economic value

1:34:33

uh generated from that so

1:34:37

this is where the lines start to get

1:34:38

blurry right it's like there's this

1:34:39

economic goodness created by bitcoin but

1:34:43

it's related to a moral goodness of you

1:34:46

know additional honesty

1:34:47

um or higher quality discourse you want

1:34:50

to call it that

1:34:51

and so

1:34:53

it's just yeah that's a lot to think

1:34:55

about there this this connection maybe

1:34:57

even between

1:34:58

as the austrians have written about for

1:35:00

for a long time there's a lot of

1:35:01

literature on this this connection

1:35:03

between the monetary standard and the

1:35:05

moral standard

1:35:06

and it seems like um

1:35:08

bitcoin is just really highlighting that

1:35:10

connection and introducing um an ideal

1:35:13

honest money to the world again

1:35:18

you know to cap this off

1:35:20

if we all the way back to

1:35:22

how sailor and i started this discussion

1:35:24

[Music]

1:35:25

he laid out this idea of ideal money

1:35:28

which was this shared immutable correct

1:35:32

ledger in the cloud if you will

1:35:38

which would you know again if we just

1:35:38

consider

1:35:40

property right property is kind of being

1:35:41

this list of who owns what

1:35:44

uh money being the ultimate form of

1:35:46

property because it can be used to as a

1:35:48

call option effectively on any other

1:35:50

form of property and a trading economy

1:35:53

that you

1:35:54

the money isn't the the wealth right

1:35:57

wealth is

1:35:59

the capital we're creating the things

1:36:00

the goods the services the reputations

1:36:03

the knowledge all of that

1:36:04

that's the capital

1:36:06

but money is

1:36:08

the instrument

1:36:11

the social construct if you will

1:36:13

that reflects the value of all that

1:36:15

capital and is used as a liquid medium

1:36:19

for trading the capital so we're trading

1:36:21

things for money

1:36:22

all the time so we'd have to trade

1:36:24

things directly right it's it's adding

1:36:26

it's lubricating the market process if

1:36:28

you will

1:36:30

so therefore money is really just

1:36:32

informational in nature right you just

1:36:34

need something that maps onto

1:36:36

the scarcity of energy and time

1:36:39

that which are the primary inputs into

1:36:41

the economy right that's what we are

1:36:43

economizing for actually is our own time

1:36:46

and energy expenditure

1:36:48

so the ideal money would be this purely

1:36:51

informational

1:36:52

incorruptible shared informational tool

1:36:56

that mapped onto that directly and and

1:36:59

and kept track

1:37:01

of who successfully satisfied the wants

1:37:03

of the marketplace whatever the market

1:37:05

wants whoever gives it to the market

1:37:07

should then earn

1:37:10

money basically and an ability to

1:37:12

claim

1:37:15

claim the goods and services that the

1:37:16

market generates for themselves

1:37:20

you know

1:37:21

that's what bitcoin is

1:37:23

bitcoin is that bitcoin is this shared

1:37:26

immutable correct ledger in the sky

1:37:28

um and it's effectively you know the

1:37:31

closest thing to a perfect monetary

1:37:33

technology the world's ever had

1:37:35

so then the question that i finished was

1:37:37

like what's going on why does why is

1:37:39

this not

1:37:40

why is it still laughed at you know

1:37:42

there's so many people in mainstream

1:37:43

media and

1:37:45

which i would more aptly call the

1:37:47

corporate press

1:37:48

thanks michael malus for that one

1:37:50

um that laugh at bitcoin think it's a

1:37:53

joke think it's going to zero it's

1:37:55

you know a ponzi scheme whatever

1:37:58

and as we've covered here it's clearly

1:38:01

the opposite it's like entirely opposite

1:38:05

i asked sailor like what's going on

1:38:07

what's the disconnect here

1:38:09

and he makes this great point that

1:38:12

you know human beings can just uptake a

1:38:14

new idea so quickly right especially

1:38:17

when it comes to something as

1:38:19

fundamental as money

1:38:21

it takes time for this idea to spread

1:38:23

it's a profound idea by the way so it

1:38:25

takes a really long time i think for

1:38:27

people's

1:38:29

world view to attune to this new

1:38:33

radical technology right that's

1:38:35

literally talking about swapping out the

1:38:37

base layer protocol

1:38:39

for human action right this is we've

1:38:42

been playing the game of gold for 5 000

1:38:44

plus years and now we're talking about

1:38:47

being 12 to 13 years into this digital

1:38:49

disruption of gold so like that's how

1:38:51

big of a deal it is

1:38:54

which explains why there's so much

1:38:55

information asymmetry in space

1:38:59

but also explains why there's so much

1:39:01

potential upside right the the

1:39:04

the market capitalization of bitcoin is

1:39:06

reflective of the world's understanding

1:39:09

of money effectively

1:39:11

and so

1:39:12

you know we're early bitcoin

1:39:15

at as this time of recording it's sub 1

1:39:17

trillion market cap

1:39:19

and i think the global store value

1:39:21

marketplace depending on how you measure

1:39:24

it it's over 200 trillion dollars

1:39:27

you're talking about a 200x upside um

1:39:30

today and i think that that smells about

1:39:33

right to me so

1:39:36

the spread of this profound idea it's

1:39:38

really throttled by

1:39:41

people's willingness to

1:39:44

study and learn uh and i think bitcoin

1:39:47

takes hundreds of hours to really dig

1:39:48

into and

1:39:50

and see the like quote unquote and then

1:39:53

it's also

1:39:55

to the plus side i think it's increased

1:39:57

actually by the liquidity of ideas

1:39:59

enabled in the digital age information

1:40:01

just moving so much faster

1:40:03

on youtube via podcast you know the

1:40:06

internet in general so

1:40:08

who knows i think um

1:40:11

if i had to guess i'd say it's about a

1:40:13

15-year process before bitcoin is a

1:40:20

is a or the

1:40:20

dominant money monetary system in the

1:40:23

world i'd say so by the year 2035 is

1:40:25

kind of the way i'm looking at it

1:40:28

so i hope you guys enjoyed that one

1:40:30

again that was episode 12. uh we've got

1:40:32

several more to go and um i'll look

1:40:35

forward to seeing you back here soon

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