Steve Talks | Konuk: Michael Saylor (MICRO STRATEGY CEO) (TR Altyazılı)

hi michael

nice to meet you finally

uh on my behalf uh i'm gonna ask you a

few questions today because the turkish

audience are really curious about what

we're gonna talk today and um i would

like to kick start with this um like

you're one of the biggest institutional

uh players like in this space and um

how do you see yourself in the market

like everyone's influenced by you

like millions are following you the

turkish audience when i actually told

this news that i'm going to meet you

everyone was so excited um how do you

see yourself in the space like do you

see yourself an institutional

like influencer or just an investor

um you know i i think that my uh best

role is just to educate the general

public

about

the technical and the financial

and the

the ethical benefits

of bitcoin

and

i

i have uh

i guess i i have an interesting

background because i'm a technology

investor

and so i invested in apple amazon

facebook and google

and made a fortune and those

those companies more than a decade ago

i'm also an entrepreneur i started

a dozen different things i launched

alarm.com which is a multi-billion

dollar publicly traded company and i

launched

angel.com which was like an alexa

competitor or surrey competitor 20 years

ago and i sold it for more than 100

million dollars

and i created my own company micro

strategy so i know what it's like to be

a tech entrepreneur i know it's like to

be a technology investor

i also

i've run a publicly traded company for

20 years so i have a pretty good sense

of what it's like to be an institutional

investor

or

an institutional public company officer

and what it's like to deal with

securities regulators and bankers

and

and large pools of institutional capital

so

because i've got that that background i

think it's helpful and i kind of

i i see my role as as explaining to

institutional investors bitcoin because

it used to be before last year as mainly

retail investors that understood bitcoin

and institutional investors didn't so

so i communicate to institutional

investors but i'm also communicating to

investment bankers

and um and

people that are institutional traders

and secure in the securities business

and also

uh you know our job is to communicate to

auditors and law and the legal

profession

and uh and other kinds of professionals

so we're explaining to credit rating

agencies what bitcoin is and we're

explaining to all the big four

accountants what bitcoin is yeah you

know sometimes my job is to communicate

uh to politicians

and then of course so i'm i'm bringing

bitcoin and what it is uh to all of

those um constituencies

and then my other job i think is to

explain to the retail investor

and all of the ogs in the crypto

industry and the bitcoin uh the bitcoin

ecosystem explain to them

how you would view this if you are

running a publicly traded company or how

you would view this if you had 50

billion dollars in institutional capital

to invest

right and because everybody doesn't

quite understand everybody else's point

of view

and

i think that when uh you communicate and

explain things with different metaphors

and from people's different point of

view it helps everybody to understand

the potential and it helps them to

understand

like sometimes people think this is

scary

uh like for example

sometimes people in the retail business

that don't understand institutions

they'll read a headline like like such

and such and tends to regulate crypto

and they think that's bad

but when the regulator says oh we have

no intention of banning it but you have

to pay your taxes on it yeah that's not

bad

that

it's bad if you're a crypto anarchist

and you hate the idea of overpaying

taxes but

if you're a bitcoin investor or if

you're a long-term holder and the

regulator says that what that means is

that they've given a green light to 250

trillion dollars worth of investors to

buy it

yeah and so oftentimes

the the news is interpreted negatively

but it's actually positive

and uh and sometimes some things that

are positive are negatives and you have

to explain to people

uh you know how the rest of the world

may see it and then they make their own

decision based upon their worldview but

i think communication is at a premium at

this stage in the development

of uh the life cycle of bitcoin

i mean for bitcoin to be regulated is

actually good for us because it actually

makes it rational you know it actually

is being accepted then people can see

forward um i i myself i have the same

not the same but i can i can understand

you because i've got a similar role here

in tokyo as well in turkey um

since i started you know on twitter and

like being on social media i tried to

like

explain everyone like what this is and

how it works what the technology is the

technology is and where it's going and

where it's heading and many times people

don't actually understand what it is so

that's the biggest downfall of the whole

cryptocurrency so that's why i started

this academy and like trying to explain

people what it is and it's doing really

well at the moment like a year or two

ago in turkey this wasn't that big it

was big but not as much as it is now so

i think us like people like us is trying

to explain people this is

it's taken most of our times as well i

can't imagine your role in this and i

mean you're doing a great job for all of

us like you're an influencer for me for

example because i take examples and to

not give up uh explaining to people what

this is actually about it's not

something just oh i'll put some money in

there i'll invest some money and the

next day i'll be rich no if you look at

it this way obviously you're going to

fail um so what you're doing we really

appreciate it here as the crypto

community of turkey i would like to say

that um the next i mean there's a few

questions i need wanted to ask you but

you answered them in the first like

question anyway thank you for that you

saved me a lot of time um

digital gold bitcoin is digital gold

um what do you mean

what what are you trying to explain here

like do you think because obviously

bitcoin has increased much more than

gold in the last few years in that but

in the long term can people actually

compare gold with

bitcoin

let's um

let's start with um

your life savings you have all the money

you've saved your entire life it's a

stack of money it's sitting in the

corner what however much money you have

and what you like to do is you'd like to

keep it

so in the 19th century

you would have bought gold with it gold

was the long-term store of value it was

pr it was a form of property but it was

mobile

you know i

another thing you could do with it

is you could buy land with it

yeah

another thing you could do is you could

buy a building another thing you could

do with it is you could buy livestock a

bunch of cattle or horses

yeah you could buy a bunch of uh corn uh

you could buy a bunch of oil or you

could buy

all of those are forms of property

so

gold is for thousands of years thought

of as a long-term mobile or portable

semi-portable it's portable for someone

with

you know 50 000 worth of gold if it's 50

million dollars worth of gold it starts

to be pretty heavy and then you can't

move it around

um

bitcoin

is can be thought of

as digital gold or more generally

digital property or

most generally

digital energy

and bear with me there

so

i take my money and i convert it into

gold and i have a pile of gold bars the

good thing is

it's hard to make anymore the bad thing

is it's heavy

and someone could put a gun to my head

shoot me and take my gold bars

the other bad thing about gold is the

gold miners make more gold

so the half-life of of economic energy

of your life force stored in gold is

about 30 years

every 30 years the gold supply is going

to double and in 100 years it's going to

double and double and double again so

you're definitely going to lose 80 85

percent of your wealth over 100 years

unless someone some criminal steals your

gold or the government seizes your gold

and of course over 100 years 95 percent

of the time someone's going to steal

your gold that's what happened in the

20th century

so the problem with gold is it's is you

can someone will steal it or or it'll

get

debased by gold miners and it's hard to

handle

digital gold is i blink my finger i

blink my eyes i cast a spell and now i

dematerialize the

the

blocks of gold a million dollars worth

of gold becomes a million dollars worth

of virtual gold

and i tie it into my private keys so now

the advantage is if you shoot me in the

head you don't get it

yeah if if someone's coming to my door

to kick down the door and arrest me i

send it halfway around the world

if i want to hold it a hundred years

it's still it doesn't debase you know

two percent a year you've still got a

hundred percent of what you had a

hundred years later the half-life of

bitcoin is forever

the half-life of gold is 30 years so one

of them is durable

the other thing is i can move it to any

of a hundred thousand counterparties

anywhere in the world at the speed of

light

so if you think of it as digital gold

you're like well it's safer more secure

indestructible and without

and without any mass so easy for me to

move around and that makes it

more valuable than gold if gold is worth

10 trillion dollars in the world then

digital gold must be worth 20 trillion

but bear with me

it's important that we don't stop there

i mean if i just gave you virtual gold

versus a bar you know a billion dollars

of real gold is 30 000 pounds a billion

dollars a bitcoin is zero pounds and i

can move it with my finger right speed

of light yeah you can see why it's

better but if we start to think of it as

digital property

i what if i took that billion dollars of

gold and i made it a billion dollars of

buildings and i bought up all the

buildings in istanbul

yeah okay now i own property i wish

okay now why is that better well in one

way it's better because i can rent the

land or i can rent the building and

generate yield on it so maybe i buy up

houses maybe i buy up warehouses i have

some property with some income stream

that's the good

the bad part about it is the maintenance

fee i got to paint it an earthquake

might knock it down it might burn

uh you know i get taxed on it property

tax

and and if i have to leave the country i

can't move the billion dollars of

buildings

out of istanbul so it's not portable

so on having said all that most people

that store their wealth and stay wealthy

they don't do it with gold the rich

families in the world do it with

property they own

blocks of new york city they probably

probably the rich people in turkey they

own

a lot of buildings and a lot of land

right you never met a rich person that

didn't own buildings in land right

so it turns out that you know

if if gold is a 10 trillion dollar

market

property is more like a

250 trillion dollar market

and if you can if you think of bitcoin

not as a digital um pallet of gold

but a digital hotel

i create a hotel with a thousand rooms

and i

snapped my fingers and now it's a

virtual hotel in istanbul

and it's only 50 occupied

so i take half the rooms and i send them

off to paris and london and new york and

now it's 100 occupied

and i rent them out by the night and and

then i realize well the room rate in new

york is

5x what it is in istanbul so i send them

all to new york and now it's 500

occupied and then i realize that people

only sleep in the room about a third of

the time

and 16 hours a day the room is empty so

i start renting the room by the room

hour

and now it goes to 1200 occupied and

then i have a little computer that finds

that finds out that in tokyo during the

tokyo olympics room rates quadruple

again and so i ship the rooms in the

hotel by the hour and it becomes

3 000 occupied

and my profitability goes up by a factor

of 50. and then i go well what if i just

rent out the room by the minute

and so now i have a now i have a virtual

hotel and i'm renting out room

minutes everywhere in the world okay and

that's really interesting property

now

at some point if i push that analogy to

the extreme

you know

if i can decompose the property every

minute and recompose it and send it out

in a hundred thousand pieces to the

world and fetch it back and there's no

maintenance cost and there's no

degradation

it's my property has become energy

right einstein said you know you can

neither destroy or create energy energy

becomes a matter matter becomes energy

right quantum

quantum uh theory of light versus the

you know versus light rays and waves

right um

what you have is uh is

property is one form of energy

and money is another form of energy

and energy is the big idea but now

let me come back to what is bitcoin well

if bitcoin is just digital gold then

it's a billion dollar slab of gold and

it must be worth more than gold so

instead of a 10 trillion dollar market

it's a 20 trillion dollar market

but a bitcoin is property then it

replaces everybody's second home and all

their commercial real estate and all the

land they invested in to store their

life savings and now it's not a 20

trillion dollar thing it's a 100

trillion dollar thing

and if it's be if it's energy

energy is same as money

money is half of everything

energy is

you know it's like the way the economy

works is you provide me with a product

an iphone or service a good or a service

or you give me property a house

or you give me a party

or you give me a car right and so i'm

buying those with money

and the economy is using the money to

backhaul the energy to convert it back

into matter and

and what is service services work

work

matter

becomes energy

and they go back and forth

and if you think about bitcoin like that

you realize that yeah the obvious thing

is it goes from it becomes digital gold

and the next thing is it becomes digital

property

and finally it becomes digital energy

and and digital energy is money but it's

so much more powerful than the concept

of money or currency people have in

their head

these ideas of money and currency full

of all sorts of political beliefs and

biases so i think if you thought of it

as just pure digital energy

at that point you realize well that's

worth 500 trillion dollars

right that's that's worth half of

everything

in the world because

because in order to exchange the work

the services the products

or the properties

with each other in order to cooperate

you have to at some point convert it

into money slash energy and convert it

back

again i think i think the um the biggest

fear of governments and federal side of

this is because it's independence really

i mean you're protecting your money

um from inflation as well and

no one can touch that

without your um you know permission it's

yours and there's nothing they can do

about it that's why it's a big threat i

i think with at the beginning what we

talked about you know when you said they

say it's gonna be regulated or it's not

or we're gonna like you know we don't

believe in bitcoin we do believe in

bitcoin there's always these

speculations going on because i think

the main fear behind it is because that

example on its own that you just talked

about is probably the best example of a

detailed example i've ever heard it's

very convincing i mean anyone who just

got into is getting into bitcoin should

listen definitely to what you just said

over there um we're talking about energy

by the way um

there's a massive

thing in the world about the energy

consumption of the bitcoin and how

you know the miners are like there's

they're talking about renewable energy

like el salvador's using volcanic energy

um

there's

the hydro and solar energy and turkey i

want turkey to get into this because our

lands are so

perfect for solar energy as well um is

it does does people need to worry about

the energy consumption i mean i i want

to know your view on this as well yeah i

have um i have thoughts on that but

before i answer that question i just

want to address the previous issue which

is

which is is bitcoin a threat for

government and i i don't think it's i

don't think it's uh wise or or even

appropriate to be thinking about it

being a threat to the government i think

that the right way to think of it is

it's a threat to gold

it's going to eat gold it's going to eat

the monetary energy from gold and

demonetize it it's a threat to property

like

if you're a middle-class person and you

want to save your life savings so you

buy a rental house to airbnb

yeah okay that's the way that you

actually save your money while buying

bitcoin is a better idea than buying a

rental house to airbnb

right

it's a threat to securities like etfs

and stocks

so big bitcoin is attacking and and

draining the monetary energy

from commodities

from second homes

from residential properties from land

from warehouses from reits from etfs

etc

right if if you're a government

you know you're not really threatened by

the fact that people in your country

would rather own you know

ten thousand dollars worth of land

versus ten thousand dollars worth of a

building versus ten thousand dollars

worth of gold as long as you pay your

taxes on it

and as long as the money doesn't leave

the country

right governments don't like two things

they're concerned if if the money is is

is not being taxed if you're making a

big capital gain and you don't pay your

tax on it that bothers them

and if all the capital leaves the

country so they're drained of all the

economic energy that's problematic for

them

and so sometimes people get focused on

this but really

this is not about um undermining a

government's currency or undermining a

government this is about telling a

middle-class

a middle-class lawyer or banker or

accountant or a taxi driver or laborer

that they can buy 37

worth of property and give to their

grandchildren and it will go up in value

you can't buy 37 worth of a building you

can't buy 37 worth of gold and if you

did it wouldn't help you because gold's

going

it's gonna be cut in half

right so

so this is a revolution in property

rights

right and once you understand it that

way

right then you don't you don't spend all

your time fixating upon you know the

crypto bitcoin is versus currency it's

really bitcoin versus stocks bitcoin

versus gold bitcoin versus land bitcoin

versus buildings and if you got that

then you're like people are like well

the government will ban it well no

they're not they're not

any more than they're gonna ban etfs no

right there's 500 trillion dollars worth

of that stuff they don't care

as long as you don't cheat on your taxes

or as long as you don't evade some other

other capital control or law

all the concerns in china about bitcoin

they're not about owning the bitcoin

they're about evading capital controls

the chinese want to have a closed

economic system and they only let a

chinese citizen move 50 000 a year out

of china

so they want people to trade these

unregulated exchanges

so i i think that's important i think

the cryptocurrency is the wrong word

and if you called it a crypto asset

and you said look it's just a store of

value asset it would help people

tremendously from wasting time and

energy

like with this with this speculation

that oh if it's too successful the

government's going to push back on it

that's i mean that's like saying well if

the price of real estate in the middle

of istanbul goes up too high the

government won't let you own real estate

yeah but this is mainly i mean

you're mainly talking about long-term

goals because there's many people are

actually trading on bitcoin and other uh

coins as well

like they're actually trading they're

scalping their daily like a long-term

short-term mid-term uh as you're a

hodler i know um

but what would you suggest the day

traders because they're trying to

actually make money out of this they're

they're looking at as a you know a

trading value where they can actually

make their day-to-day money so i i

always suggest that they should know

what they're investing in and if they're

going to

i don't think you should trade it i just

think that's very unwise

if bitcoin's going up 135

a year

yeah

if it's going up 135 a year and you

think that you deserve to make more i

with your capital i think it's i think

it's a bit short-sighted and greedy

there's no other asset in the world

that's going up 135 percent a year so if

if

you have two ways to do this right right

you maybe you think that you can out

trade everybody else but i doubt you can

but if you

if you don't believe in bitcoin i

wouldn't hold it for a minute if you

think it's it's going to work then a

better idea if you want to make more

than 135 percent gain a year would be to

leverage it

i mean go borrow some money for 10 years

against your car your house and and then

you'd be getting 260 percent a year

i mean that makes a lot of sense um i

mean for us uh but you know there's

there's people whose financial situation

is not uh as good let's say or good what

they're trying to do is they well this

is what i'm trying to explain in turkey

to my community as well to my followers

as well like

if you do day trade you must be a very

good like analyst or like you must be a

a really good you know trader like this

is all you do because trading is you

know it's something you have to focus on

like 24 7 if you don't want to lose

money yeah you realize like

let's come back every rich person in the

world isn't a traitor

for example yeah you know jeff bezos is

not rich because he traded amazon stock

he's rich because he couldn't

right he couldn't by law trade it he had

to keep it it wouldn't it traded down 80

percent five times if he traded it he

wouldn't be the you know richest man in

the world the second elon musk is not

rich because he trades

you know uh mark zuckerberg is not rich

because he trades

you know

nobody that i know of

right nobody

no i don't think you can you might

find one

out of a thousand billionaires that's

rich because they claim to be traders

but even them

they're not traders

most the people that you think are

traders they made all their money by

raising pools of institutional capital

and getting paid two and twenty

so like they raised 10 billion dollars

and they said they're going to trade it

and they get paid 2 management fees so

they make 200 million a year and then

they get 20 of the upside so when the s

p goes up by 30 they got you know six

percent of that so if they had 10

billion they made like 800 million that

year

but but even if they were wrong on every

single trade they still made 8 million a

year that the trick was not trading the

trick was raising large pools of capital

with uh and with an asymmetric contract

so i i mean i think if you if you put

five thousand highly rich people

on a graph

you probably wouldn't find more than

five that made their money trading

and even then

not a good idea so it's like buying

lottery tickets a better idea

is buy a high quality property

and hold it

and and by

you know if you if you look at people

that get wealthier you would say well i

can't get wealthy that way the way you

get wealthy is you buy the high quality

property with leverage

like in the real estate business

if you can buy a million dollar building

with a hundred thousand dollars down

you work your life you save the hundred

thousand you buy the million dollar

building you borrow the nine hundred

thousand uh the central banks print

money the inflation rate runs ten

percent or 20 percent the building goes

from 1 million to 2 million to 5 million

to 10 million

pretty soon you have a 10 million dollar

building because you had a one million

dollar investment with one hundred

thousand dollars in capital

and you never sell it

the problem with trading is you pay the

transaction fee and you also have you

also owe short-term or long-term

taxes

yeah right and and so if you look at all

these

the the path to walt creation or wealth

preservation it's generally buying

property and holding it and letting it

appreciate tax free

for 30 years

right and and you can't do that if

you're trading so um

if you look at if you look at all these

things like let's take apple amazon

facebook google

if you were trading them for the last 10

years you would have made mistake after

mistake after mistake kick yourself

itself in the head i suppose i mean

we're on the same page here i am

i completely agree and this is what i

try to explain uh to people as well but

it's good that it comes out of your

mouth as a very important like person in

this industry and in the space and

bitcoin i'm gonna be so happy airing

this you saying this because all we're

trying to explain is instead of going

into like an adventure of like risking

your money hold like have a

set of money on the side which you can

like live on and whatever you can invest

put that money in there and just hold

and this is what we're trying to explain

plus i was going to ask you a question

before it's in my

while it's in my mind you know like

banks and

you know with this lightning transaction

and everything going on right now um

what do you think is going to like with

the remittance um like the what do you

think is going to happen with like

you know the banks and like western

union or moneygram like big like uh

companies like this what do what do you

think is going to happen are they going

to disappear in time or are they just

going to

adapt to what's going on with this money

transaction fees and

i mean they won't disappear but the

world's going to change right we're

headed toward a world where 8 billion

people have a mobile phone and they have

a digital wallet and in the digital

wallet they have a digital currency

and they have a digital assets yeah and

so

we'll get to the point where everybody

well probably five or six billion people

have digital dollars

and they may also have digital turkish

lira

and they'll use the digital lira for

some things where they have to

and they'll flip it to dollars if

they're buying things or or holding

things for a year

and if they want to hold their money for

10 years

they'll move it to an asset like a

bitcoin

and if you want to give your money to

your grandchildren

you know your

your lira is going to be worth nothing

in 100 years your dollar is going to be

worth one penny

in 100 years

and your bitcoin is going to be worth

probably 20 x more than it is now in 100

years

so if you want to give something to your

grandchildren then you're going to hold

digital assets that will go up in value

and the and the king of all digital

assets is bitcoin

and i think i don't think that

it's not going to cha wipe out all the

banks

it's just going to change them

it's like bitcoin's not going to wipe

out countries it's going to change that

yeah but like money transfer companies

like western union i mean that's the

that's where they make money from like

they're going to train

but western union is not all the banks

western union is one particular type of

financial services organization that

charges ten percent five to ten percent

to remit money internationally yeah yes

so they're going to shrink because now

you can send money anywhere at the speed

of light for free so clearly a killer

application is international remittances

and so yeah i mean they're going to be

threatened more but there are other

banks

that jp morgan that buys

you know buys tens or hundreds of

billions of dollars worth of sovereign

debt from the us government

different purposes that's not going to

be threatened

right so

i think that what you'll see is

is um an explosion

in digital wallets

and a viral spread of digital currency

and digital assets

yeah you can already see by the way the

collapse of

a lot of wheat currencies there are 66

countries in the world that are

dollarized

okay so ultimately everybody's going to

want to use the dollar

you know it'll be like the dollar the

euro the yen and the cny there'll be

like maybe 10 strong currencies

maybe and then there'll be some weak

currencies that people will hold for

short periods of time

and then they'll be the dead currencies

right countries where the currencies

just completely collapse like

afghanistan

lebanon well lebanon is extremely weak

not collapsed but but iraq afghanistan

you know venezuela's currency is almost

gone at this point you know lots of

africa

all the dollarized countries talking of

talking of which what i mean what how do

you

what's your

thoughts on el salvador and what they're

doing i think i think it's revolutionary

and what they're doing you know um it's

it's the first step of like um changing

the world currency i suppose like they

try and at least

adopt it to

um

in in their country how they're gonna

spend money i mean half half of the

population now uh earns bit bitcoin

right if i'm not wrong

how do you think they will adapt to this

like how do people adapt and how do

other countries adapt and what if the

price of bitcoin goes down their federal

reserves are going to go down as well

and like how do you think they're going

to like actually merge into this new

system of um currency

okay well first you have to start with

the observation the bitcoins the most

efficient monetary network in the world

and so with some volatility

it's going to go up forever it's just a

question of what the volatility is so if

you buy any bitcoin you shouldn't you

shouldn't store money in bitcoin that

you're not won a whole for four years

and ideally you take the portion of your

money that you want to hold a decade

your life's your savings

and you put that in bitcoin and just let

it sit there for 10 to 100 years and you

never sell ever right it's like owning

the the best block in your favorite city

and you're going to give it to your

great great great grandchildren you just

want to own it forever

right and then another pool of money is

for investment so if you want to bet on

a company and make an investment

if you happen to be like a programmatic

proprietary trader and you've got like

computers that are super smart maybe you

can trade but i think that's a

profession and if you're the best trader

in the market you know it that's

profession if you're not a professional

don't touch that

and then the last the last bucket of

money is if you're trading but you don't

know what you're doing you're just

speculating and okay well you walked

into a casino and you know you're gonna

lose but it's fun

so

okay fine so go and bet five percent of

your money in the casino because it's

fine even though the the odds are

stacked against you

that's the way to think about

about these assets

with regard to what's going on in el

salvador what you had was about

two and a half million people out of you

know seven or eight million people in

the country

you had a block of people that had bank

accounts they're all dollarized

most of the country can't get access to

dollars they have no other currency

and they're forced to use 20th century

remittance technology all our western

union to send money it's a 10 cost it

takes them three hours of their life

so they're living in a kind of a 20th

century antiquated financial model

what they did was they rolled out

a digital wallet the chivo wallet

it has the support for dollars digital

dollars in essence and for bitcoin

and then three million people downloaded

that in three weeks so they had more

people set up a mobile bank account in

three weeks then they had set up a real

bank account in 100 years yeah yeah and

of course what they what we did is we

gave everybody access to dollars via the

chivo wallet we gave everybody access to

bitcoin by the chivo wallet and we cut

the remittance fee from

ten percent and three hours of time

to a twentieth of a penny

and and one second

so um obviously that was a leap frog

from the 20th century to the 21st

century

and i would expect

that that will be like it'll be like the

mobile wave it'll spread through all

africa the same way you know like in

africa they didn't bother to dig cable

lines or

or lay hard lines because that's

expensive they just put up cell towers

and everybody gets a 50 phone and they

have a cell tower we we leap frog the

20th century we go to the 21st century

the same thing will happen with this

this is basically banking spreading to

billions of people

via the airwaves

and a mobile phone which they already

have so

the old way is i have bricks and mortar

and i have people in institutions

and in a hundred years

maybe i could get to another hundred

thousand people

and the new way is i just upload a piece

of software and the variable cost is

like

60 second download you don't have to buy

the phone

nobody got the phone

right so you don't find the phone you're

not putting up the tower

what are you doing all you're really

doing is uploading a piece of software

that is a mobile bank

and so el salvador

they had the sponsorship of the

president and the government and so they

went very fast um i think other

countries will flip and i think the

writing is on the wall here

because billions and billions of people

don't have anything

yeah and to say let's say billions of

people are unbanked is kind of a

euphemism because people don't it's the

wrong way to say it a better way to say

it is billions of people have no

property rights that are going to starve

to death if they lose their job in the

next six days

okay that's a little bit clearer

like billions of people are type 1

diabetics

they can't store fat and that means that

they're going to starve to death

billions of people have no property if

you have no property

then that means you work your entire

life and

in the week or in the day when you stop

working you go hungry and within 30 days

you'll be 30 to 60 days maybe you'll be

dead unless you're lucky enough to be

overweight maybe you'll last 90 to 120

days

but you're living

hand to mouth

billions of people living in poverty

hand to mouth because they have no

property rights

bitcoin is a technology

to give people property rights

everywhere on earth

so i i think it's going to spread it's

pretty obvious it's spreading because

how do you stop a virus that can spread

at the speed of light for no variable

cost

that solves a problem that everybody on

earth has

true

um

michael

you're explaining this so well like

you've got so many examples and it's

like it's blowing my mind you got um i

want to change the subject a little bit

because i want to know about you just a

little bit

um you got alarm.com and angel.com as

well and you got this micro strategy

strategy like

how do you have time for yourself like

what do you think in your spare time do

you play golf or do you go fishing or i

don't know

how do you find time for yourself

like you're a very focused businessman i

can see i mean i think everybody's got a

balanced life so

i just went running down a country road

so i i mean i i make a point to get out

and exercise and get outside move around

because i just think it's healthy

yeah you know but otherwise i enjoy

i enjoy what i do and uh you know you

meet a lot of people like i'm meeting

you

right i meet people in cyberspace

everywhere in the world that have a

shared interest

yeah and everybody's got a different

background and they've you know you're

interested in uh a different uh sphere

of activities than than other types of

investors and so

you know i think it keeps you

it keeps you energized because you keep

meeting new people you have new

challenges and

as you know like one week in

in the crypto industry is like a year

yeah

and others

and you've been to the miami conference

as well so there was so many criticism

about that conference as well what did

you take out of it like how do you

felt that when it was like almost a

party like a different so i mean it

wasn't like what i expected to be to be

honest and um

you being there was the highlight of it

i suppose like that's my opinion but

other than that it looked like from the

outside world it looked like like what's

going on this is not the way to you know

make bitcoin um sit in a very

uh safe place in people's minds you know

what what is your thoughts is am i being

very harsh here or what what do you

think from you

i thought it was just a representation

of the passion

and the

hope and the enthusiasm

that bitcoin is spreading throughout the

world

if you're a trader you can't understand

it right so

people in the crypto world and the