Michael Saylor Interview: The Future of Bitcoin - Part 1

ladies and gentlemen

welcome to the latest episode of the

wake up podcast and i have finally

managed to wrangle

the one and only michael sailor to come

join me for what i think is going to be

a

deep and multi-faceted conversation so

mike thank you for taking the time to

come and jump on man you're very

generous with your time

yeah thanks for having me alex

absolutely man

um look there's so many

a bunch of places where i want to open

this up and so many threads we can pull

on

but i wanted to

just start off with some basics and just

reiterate forever on why we're here why

bitcoin is important what money is

and then we can kind of explore

you know i don't want to spend too much

time on the noise and what's happening

in the world today because you know

bitcoins up down and around in circles

and who really gives a shit like you

know your time frame really matters here

but

i'd love to start with

uh

how you've in the past separated

money and currency and

because i think people conflate those

two

all the time and and i'd like to discuss

what is different about the two

yeah well um

i think oftentimes uh we use

concepts like money in a very sloppy

fashion and people use money

uh

and currency as though they're

synonymous

and uh i i don't really think there's

been a lot of deep thinking about this i

mean i i could honestly say

before bitcoin i didn't really think

that deeply about it i was i was

prompted to think deeply about it when

robert breedlove invited me on to his

show what is money

and i thought

wow we're going to talk about what is

money so i guess i better figure it out

and so then i s

i started to think

and uh

now i i think it's

it's helpful um if you adopt these kind

of definitions

noting that we're so early in this

journey that 95 of the world hasn't

thought deeply about it and probably

you'd have they would probably use these

these words or terms differently and

many many people even economists and

business people don't really know what

money is or they just define it sloppily

in in the context so here's here's what

i think are the useful definitions and

then we can have a discussion

i think money is economic energy

if you have a certain amount of economic

energy let's say you have a hundred

thousand dollars of economic energy in

the year 2022

that will uh that can be exchanged for

products or services or property

right i can

i can fly somewhere i can buy something

i can

you know throw a party in the year 2022.

clearly a hundred thousand dollars worth

of money in 2022 doesn't buy you the

same uh good services

or products in the year 1900.

they'll buy you a lot more

and in the year uh

2200

won't buy you the same thing either so

so you have a certain amount of money

at a certain time that you can measure

in a currency the currency in this case

the us dollar is the medium of exchange

in that political frame of reference

at the time you have the money

so if money is economic energy

what happens as you change political

frames of reference a hundred thousand

dollars

buys you a certain amount in the us and

if you go to japan

well it doesn't buy you anything because

they don't accept dollars for

you know restaurants you can't buy a

house and dollars you have to convert it

to yen

so you would convert that amount of

money from from the dollar currency into

the yin currency if you trip through 180

countries you would have to convert it

generally into the currency that's

that's the medium of exchange and the

legal tender in the country

since most countries have a different

uh a different legal currency

some countries like in europe share a

similar one to euro

so

money is is economic energy the currency

is the medium of exchange

or it's it

it is an asset legally designated by a

nation state

as

as an acceptable medium exchange and

it's given up a

legal advantage a political advantage

because you can transfer it tax free

so if i have a hundred thousand dollars

and i want to uh

to buy

an expensive car with it

right i can exchange the hundred

thousand of money via the currency

into the car

without paying a capital gains tax

and without in incurring a capital gain

loss

on the transaction

um

if i had um

a bunch of apple stock

a hundred thousand dollars worth of

apple stock

i would have an asset actually you could

you know in fact there's a batch of

securities worth a hundred thousand

dollars but if i bought the car with a

hundred thousand dollars of apple stock

and i had acquired the apple stock for

fifty thousand dollars

i would actually

get the car and i get a tax bill for the

capital gains on fifty thousand dollars

right that's what the nation state says

so for that reason apple stock or a

bunch of securities

don't make good medium of exchange

right it would even even if it was

liquid right it's not a good medium

exchange because my credit card you know

doesn't work so well with apple stock

because i can't transfer apple stock on

a saturday afternoon

and those are reasons why i wouldn't use

it

in order to buy a car but the most

important reason that

securities will never be currency

is because it's deemed as

you know we'll call it property by the

irs

and something subject to a capital gains

tax

so

the currency uh in the modern world

uh is whatever the government says it is

if you're in um

if you're in a a state of uh

anarchy

right or chaos let's say let's say

you're in a war zone

you're uh you're in afghanistan after

the government fell right while the

americans were pulling out all the banks

failed

right clearly it's not there's no

effective government to designate um a

local afghan fiat currency

there's no government to impose taxes

right that's anarchy

in that particular case

if you happen to be

an afghan citizen

and you're trans and you're uh doing a

trade with another afghan citizen

you want to buy whatever they've got

their car

right their food you could use bitcoin

as a currency

and it would be a currency because

there's no government to tell you that

you can't use it as a currency in that

case you could use goats right you could

use basically anything

yeah you could use gold you could use

bullets i was saying goats you could

because that's yeah i got you could you

could barter whatever you wanted

right because but the reason that the

reason that anything is currency

is because there's not an effective

nation state

so the reason that um we end up with um

a dichotomy right what money is economic

energy there's one aspect of money we'll

call property

another aspect of money we'll call

currency

and both of those sum up into money the

property would be

a long

a long duration asset

if i want to own a house if i have a

house a car a bitcoin

a bar of gold

even a share of stock i suppose or a a

corporation

uh we could all think of them as

property forms of money right they all

have economic value

um but generally they all have a tax

treatment

not always the same but oftentimes

there's a tax a taxable event when you

transfer property from one person to

another person

like for example

if i um if i

traded you my house

for a car

and if there's a tax on disposition of

real estate oftentimes there's a real

estate tax on transfer of title

right not only are you going to get the

capital gains tax you're also going to

get the um the real estate tax so that's

even worse

than transferring say the apple shares

because you get hit twice right

sometimes you

you could get all sorts of random taxes

depending upon the legal definition of

the property

so um

the

the best way to think of it is

if there is an effective nation state

it can choose to designate one or more

assets as currency generally one asset

the euro the yen the one

the cny the usd right those would be

designated as currencies or legal tender

you transfer them tax-free

um

though there's two reasons why

you've got an advantage of your

designated currency the one obvious

reason is because i can transfer the

asset to someone else in a trade

tax-free

okay that's the obvious reason right

because if i if i move the money ten

times in a year and if there happens to

be a you know a ten percent tax each

time i move it there's no money left at

the end of the year right so if you're

trading

a pro a property

high velocity

over the course of a few years the

property disappears

in a decade the property certainly

disappears sometimes

like if you're designated a property if

i had a hundred thousand dollars of

property in florida

i wouldn't even have to trade it just

holding it subjects it to a two percent

a year fee so that over the course of

50 years the property goes away right so

that so that's a nation state basically

taking your property away but it's worse

than that right because they could uh

reassess the property every year and if

they reassess the property up seven

percent a year you don't even get it for

50 years you get it for about 25 years

before the property goes away

so

when you look at your assets

um the nation has the ability to

classify them however they want

and

and uh

the best classification is currency

because i could hold the currency

from a tax point of view that is i can

hold the currency for a hundred years

and i'm not getting a two percent

property tax a year and i'm not getting

the capital gains when i transferred

so that's why currency tends to um

separate from property

as monetary assets and

when you think about uh

when you think about the world

right

eight billion people in the world

if you're if you want liquid assets

you'd like a liquid property asset like

bitcoin that you can hold for 100 years

it's a store of value

and then if you want to move through

nation states

if you want to do business in rent a

house or buy something in the uk or in

europe or in the us

you're going to have to have a currency

asset

and you can decide how much of your

wealth you want to store in the currency

right if you store 100 of your wealth in

the currency then the pro is your your

taxable situation is simple

uh the con is of course you're getting

uh diluted very rapidly

but there's

but there's one more point i was going

to make so the first benefit of an asset

being designated currency

is the fact that you can transfer it

without tax or hold it without taxable

um

consequences

but the secondary benefit

which is it's kind of derivative benefit

is

the accounting

for the transactions becomes orders of

magnitude easier

so

the world is run by a hundred million

companies and those hundred million

companies they provide your pizza and

they wash your clothes and they operate

the airplanes and they operate the ships

and they operate the railroads and they

give you your job right and they're

apple and google and amazon and they

have the electricity and they pump the

water we can't really reasonably do

without the companies the companies all

have accounting systems

the big accounting companies are sap and

oracle and microsoft they are wired into

those hundred million companies they are

the nervous system of the companies and

the companies can't legally do business

they can't comply with local law

without the accounting systems so the

companies become non-compliant when they

when they don't the right accounting

systems

to to operate especially as a public

company but even as a private company

you end up making really really large

investments in accounting systems um

you're you're talking about

hundreds of finance professionals in

most mid-sized companies

and 10 20 30 50 million dollars in the

accounting systems and those things

it would be if if you wanted to rip it

out or change it and do it fast

fast would be in a decade

and

and uh likely would be 15 to 20 years

and and so generally the average life

span of that customer relationship with

those accounting firms is is 25 30 years

so so it's a very very um

long duration investment

so

if um

if you want to introduce a new currency

you can't do it without the support of

the nation state

and then

and if you go against that nation state

guidance

right the companies will just

immediately reject it

because they would be deemed

non-compliant and they would lose their

license to do business in the country

and it would be worse than that right

like the ceo's going to jail and the

cfo's going to jail if if they're not

compliant so they're not going to do it

they will reject any kind of currency

that that doesn't

doesn't meet nation state acceptance

but even if they even if they wanted to

wire their systems like let's say they

were going to to accept it they end up

having to modify all their accounting

systems to immediately trans uh

translate the property into the currency

and now um

now you're talking about generating

hundreds of thousands or millions and

millions of taxable events

every month every week

so imagine

imagine if i did 87 million transactions

selling 87 million pizzas but i was

doing it in a non-currency like a

bitcoin you would literally have to keep

track of the price of bitcoin 87 million

times

and you'd have to have a different price

for every transaction

in the system

and then you would have to calculate

when you paid your bills every single

bill would be a different uh mixture of

bitcoin going out the other side

and so you're talking about accounting

systems that become orders of magnitude

more complicated

and uh no

nobody would willingly take on that

headache i mean if if you went to sap in

oracle and said build this forest they

would laugh at you

and they they're kind of a duopoly like

there's only three companies in the

world

that do this so

so they don't have to do anything

so

the currency is a very

very deep-seated strong network effect

and

this accrues uh it accrues to the united

states because if you have the world's

reserve currency

then your reserve currency is built into

the accounting systems and into the

exchanges and the marketplaces of every

country on earth and it's built into all

of the

all of the um

property assets

right because the currency is built into

the bonds it's built into commercial

real estate leases

they're 30-year leases right that are

indexed to the united states cpi

and so if you were to calculate

the total amount of investment

in all of these things

you realize it's uh

it's

extraordinary so

ultimately

money

money is energy

you have a lot of flexibility about

about how you store your economic energy

and you have to decide what your

what your goal is do you want to hold it

for a thousand years

do you want to it to be portable

do you want it to be programmable do you

want to be high frequency do you want to

want high velocity money do you want to

move it um every day every week every

month and if and so depending upon what

your uses of the money

you would probably and also your

political nexus

and your geographic nexus

for example um

it's a different circumstance for an

american citizen in argentina than it is

for an argentine citizen in argentina

and so there's a different calculus if

you're an american trading with an

american in brazil than if you're a

brazilian trading with a brazilian in

brazil

and so

you have to consider

what is uh what's the

citizenship of the person of the company

right what it what's the and companies

are even more complicated right because

a company can have 200 subsidiaries

in different locales

and they can all be licensed differently

so now the question becomes

what's the entity doing business

at what frequency with what counterparty

to what effect

and now if you can parse your way

through all the tax codes

right there's a tax code that's

different by state by municipality

by country

by counterparty

a and counterparty b

changing over time

if you can parse through all that

you can actually figure out

the right financial strategy

if it sounds daunting

it is and so you can imagine why a

typical cfo or treasurer would say screw

it we're just going to use

the currency the local currency or we're

going to use the dollar

right because that's the path of least

resistance and their thinking is

all of this is too complicated for me i

i sell pizzas

right so the the norm for corporation is

they focus upon the operating business

operating jets or planes or trains or

automobiles or making food

and they don't really focus upon the

treasury operations or the balance sheet

because it's just it would just make the

business too complicated

okay so i want to i just want to come

back to

because we've gone on

a number of tangents there what i want

to

kind of

separate just as a as a model in

people's minds as as i was listening to

you talk in the beginning you were

saying

money is kind of the

the total economic energy of a system so

the kind of i'm kind of thinking almost

of a of an electrical system like the

money is the power in the system

and then the currency is

i mean it's meant to represent

the power in the system and it's kind of

like a

it's like a map or an or an an attempt

that

enables us to move that economic energy

around the system so it's almost like

current flowing through a circuit

whereas the the total economic energy is

the money itself um

a ledger in the sky i've heard you call

it that in the past which i

i well there's lots of metaphors but

but why don't we start with energy so

money is the energy in the system

so so how do i store energy well

if i had a million dollars i could pump

water uphill

with the million dollars i could convert

the million dollars into electricity put

it in a pump and i can pump water uphill

into a reservoir

and now uh all the all the the water

behind the dam represents potential

energy

by the way if i'm lucky right the force

of nature just dropped the rain water in

into the reservoir behind the dam and i

don't have to pump it up so now i've got

a million dollars worth of water

now why why is the water energy it

wouldn't be energy at sea level it's

energy at altitude

right

the higher you are the more energy you

have

if you're a thousand feet up with a

million pounds of water or a million

gallons of water a thousand feet up

that's more energy than 100 feet up

right the effect you know the energy is

the difference between where where the

water is going to flow versus where it

is that's potential energy is going to

be given off and it's and ultimately

what you're doing is you're channeling

gravitational energy

right the real energy came from gravity

and we and the water is the fluid

if i'm flying an airplane at 50 000 feet

i have more energy than at 5 000 feet

right how do you know i just point the

nose down

and the plane starts to accelerate right

and and i pick up velocity so i'm

converting potential energy into kinetic

energy

okay so um

if i wanted to move energy via another

medium i can move it through air

pressure

sound is acoustic energy

ah

that's more energy right if i yell i'm

putting more energy into the system

right

less energy

more energy right

singing right what what what do we do

we're listening to someone perform music

we're watching them uh

expressing

an extraordinary performance art on

energy

look at a guitar

right and think about uh tesla said you

want to understand the universe think in

terms of um of vibration

right and frequency and energy

so a guitar has got a fretboard

and when you're uh when you're playing

the guitar you're actually

changing the frequency with which the

strings vibrate

you know one hand is actually uh putting

a bit of energy into the system uh but

the but the real trick is

change the length of the string so that

the strings vibrate at different

resonating frequencies and then you get

the chord you get the music

so uh any you can use many many mediums

to move energy

when sound is moving through the air

right the air is the current currency

um is it a good currency or bad currency

well the sound moves uh through the

water faster than through the air water

is a better currency than air uh but uh

the sound moves through a piece of wood

or solid faster than the water

and the stiffer the solid the faster the

sound moves

and the more efficiently it moves so you

can pick any kind of medium to move

energy

electricity is is a way to move it sound

is a way to move it water is a way to

move energy you have a certain amount of

energy you know in your body

and your blood

right is is the currency

that's moving the energy through your

body

right and and uh it works to a certain

level

so uh so fiat currencies are a method of

moving energy

um

all all of these all of these mediums

have dissipation like they dissipate

energy

right um

that's why um

that's why that's why uh well if i shine

a light

uh through a vacuum

it will travel further than if i shine a

light through a wet blanket

why

same same energy dissipated faster right

through a solid than through the air but

you know you can figure out that we can

see stars that are

light years away

but you can't see candles

that are 10 miles away

because the air doesn't uh it dissipates

energy faster

so all of these uh all of these things

dissipate energy at a certain rate

uh the u.s dollar

right now dissipating energy maybe at

the rate of 15 percent uh a year

about

um

but in in

in argentina or in turkey they're

dissipating energy at the rate of 70 a

year

and uh the best managed us you know

currency the best managed any given year

maybe anticipating energy of seven

percent a year

and right now in japan the japanese

currency has lost 19 percent

let's say the us dollar strengthened 19

against the yen

in the last uh

six months

okay so

if the u.s dollar is weakened eight and

a half percent against consumer goods

and if it's weakened 20

against property like single-family

homes

and if it's weakened 33 against oil

but it strengthened nineteen percent

against the yen

you could see that uh that the yen is

losing sixty percent fifty to sixty

percent of its energy

in six months

against

against a commodity like oil now there

are all sorts of

all sorts of um

you know individual effects so

oil is probably going up in price

because the scarcity of oil has been

increased because of the war

but if we took u.s single-family homes

and said it looks like the inflation

rate of the u.s dollar against scarce

desirable assets is about 20 percent

then you can see that uh that the

effective inflation rate of the japanese

yen against scarce desirable assets is

35 percent

maybe 40 percent

becomes tricky to measure but

but uh that's what happened so the

reason that i don't want to hold the

currency forever

is because

it's bleeding off energy over time but

the reason that i want to hold it for a

day

is

because there are massive network

effects

when i walk into a pizzeria they don't

price the pizza in apple stock

and they don't price it in bitcoin they

don't price it in bar ounces of gold

they price it in dollars

when i go to europe when the eu formed

one of the interesting things that

happened is

in the ten years after the eu formed

most menus in the european union started

listing

uh products in the local language and

english english became the second

language on all menus of most nice

restaurants all throughout europe and

then

of course they started listing prices in

euros

before that

they listed the menu in french

and

frank's so

you know you had uh a standardization

on a common currency and a standard

nation on a common language

and uh that uh that facilitates

the medium of the the process of

exchange in the near term

but the price you pay

is um you know the loss of your local

culture the loss of your local language

and the loss of control over your local

currency

and uh and the increase the increase in

the power of the centralized bureaucracy

so okay so moral

of the story here is that

we

in some way by necessity

from particularly how we've emerged as

as civilizations you know we have

territory to contend with and the latest

incarnation of contending with the

territory as the nation-state and within

the nation state

we've

had to in some way

create a medium

for people to move monetary energy but

by virtue of the fact that

the

these nation-states have become quite

bureaucratic there is an increased

dissipation of energy

uh in that process and

would you would you agree with the fact

that we're coming to a point i i know

your position on bitcoin and i mean you

made it clear for the last half an hour

in terms of

it being property

and its designation as property making

it difficult to be used as a currency

but kind of like what you said about the

euro there

they moved over to the euro they slapped

english on all the menus

can bitcoin in a sense bootstrap its way

in a similar sort of fashion where its

menus have euros and

bitcoin on them in terms of a way for

people

to make payments because

bitcoin seems to be

again let's

assume that the nation state and this

territorial necessity doesn't exist for

a moment

bitcoin in cyberspace

is not only a better money but its

money currency relationship

doesn't have any leakage i guess

and

you know the pathway there is obviously

messy

in the extreme um

what is the word uh the extreme ideal

model

if there if there was

you have to you have to imagine

i don't know what you think about

government uh a worldwide benevolent

govern government

and the government decided to adopt

austrian economics and

eliminated all the fiat currencies and

so we went to 100 bitcoin

everywhere in the world

no war i'll leave that off for a second

and then um

you just went to a complete hard money

standard then you would have the

austrian ideal and you'd have a

deflationary economy and then the price

of everything would get cheaper every

year

it would get cheaper

at the rate that the economy grew if if

we added two percent more productivity a

year then everything get two percent

cheaper a year

and so

you just have to imagine that uh that

it's it's a

there's a nation

um

i haven't really thought through whether

you can do it for one out of 100 nations

right because the other 99 nations would

also have access to bitcoin but they'd

have other

currencies and there'd be political

dynamics and military and war dynamics

you have to work through so i haven't

quite worked that out but it seems to me

that if you have the support of the

nation state to adopt a single currency

and that's bitcoin

then uh you could make it work i mean

it's not going to happen in the next 30

years not that i could see a hundred

years out 200 years out

sometime in the distant future you would

have to rebuild

first of all you have to answer the

question what do we do with all the

countries

and then then after you figure out that

what we do all the currencies and then

how do we persuade everybody and then

after that you have to rebuild the

accounting systems and rebuild all the

software systems but but in theory right

there's that future i just don't think

it's practical

anytime in the next few decades

if we take the a a more realistic

situation look at argentina right now

you have the local peso

and then you have the dollar

and then you have bitcoin

and then you also have the real

and um and so if if you're origin pine

you

you can't there's no company in

argentina that can react reject the peso

and still stay in business

right so

unless you're unless you've got an idea

to peacefully change out the government

i don't know how that happens right

it's just there's no one can operate

there uh and stay in business right

um

so what you end up with is the dyna the

same thing you're suggesting for bitcoin

replacing the dollar is the thing that

the dollar needs to do to replace the

argentine peso right the dollar is a

much better currency in argentina than

the peso

so if you wanted to watch

how hyper bitcoinization

happens

watch how dollarization happens

and does it happen with bloodshed or

without bloodshed

right like the uh el salvador dollarized

but it was after a civil war

right i mean and so go go look at all

the different countries in the world and

ask the question how do they change

currencies and how do they adopt a

stronger currency

right and uh it's a slow process and

like the the argentine peso has been

collapsing for 20 years

actually technically

if you study history

yeah i

think in uh in the house of morgan right

uh the guy that ran the bank before the

first jp morgan he got into the business

by you know

by uh bailing out busted argentine bonds

and the like i mean argentina's had

sovereign debt collapses since the late

1800s

you know that we can measure every 20

years for the last 150 years

right so like 1920s there's another

south american round of collapses in the

1950s i did another round in 1970s

another round 1990s another round

and now we're in another round

so this has been going on for a while

normally what happens is the country's

currency collapses

like that the russian currency collapsed

in the in the late 90s what'd they do

they installed the new ruble the mexican

currency collapsed what'd they do they

installed the new mexican peso

right what happens when you collapse the

currency generally the question is does

the government say or go yeah so if the

government

if the government collapses so badly

that you become a province of

the united states right

if you were if you were hawaiian and you

actually ran your own hawaiian empire

and then your nation collapsed

then you might become

a state in the united states and adopt a

dollar

but generally you have to have a

political union

to have a monetary union

so this is really

this is why

if you um if your goal is uh to make a

lot of progress in the next decade

then the best way to think about that is

bitcoin is a hundred times better than

gold which means bitcoin's gonna get a

hundred times bigger than it is right

now and we should spend our time

explaining to people why bitcoin is

better than gold better than uh owning a

an equity index fund better than owning

a second investment property

better than owning a bunch of heavy

metals

right better than owning farmland

and you could do that and bitcoin could

become a 250 trillion dollar ecosystem

without threatening anybody

right there's

there it's not there is no nation of

gold gold doesn't have a police force

has no army

there's no nsa cia protecting gold

right there's no one that's going to

fight and die for gold

there's no president of gold no one's

getting elected to defend gold

right so

if if what you want to do is improve the

human condition as fast as you can with

the least amount of confusion and

friction

and unintended consequences then

you simply

attack the nation of gold and you swap

out

everyone that wants sound money in the

form of gold for bitcoin and after you

finish that

you swap out a hundred trillion dollars

of real estate and property investments

for bitcoin and after that you swap out

you know corporate bonds and equity and

you demonetize equity and you demonetize

um corporate bonds

and um

by by time you've done that you probably

will have changed the politics in 100

countries and you'll probably have very

favorable politicians

and uh and bitcoin probably will have

built itself into the political

apparatus of those countries

and uh either

their currency will become bitcoin back

derivative

like they will they will back their

currency to bitcoin

or they will adopt bitcoin

uh and in any event your cur

your currency gets stronger if you do

intelligent things

and your currency gets weaker

when you do irrational things right so

if you loved

if you loved the country you would want

the leadership to do intelligent things

so what's intelligent

um

generate a lot of power like nuclear

power that's cheap and

and easy uh good road systems good

technology

efficient uh

efficient language efficient currency

good legal systems

you know not too much spend less than

you make yeah all of these rational

things

right uh adopt a bitcoin standard

all of these would be rational things it

would strengthen the currency

and uh and it would lessen the inflation

rate of the currency

if i want to create massive inflation i

just do the opposite

i you know declare war on 100 different

things and i spend 100 x more than i

take in and i regulate everything and

everyone everywhere right and and that

causes the currency to weaken and in the

extreme

completely collapses

so

um

it seems reasonable

that um as bitcoin grows and it gets

better understood

rational nations will embrace bitcoin

holders and bitcoin miners and bitcoin

companies

and as they embrace them the politics

will become more favorably disposed to

bitcoin and as that happens their

companies will start to hold bitcoin and

their families and then eventually their

institutions

and then their agencies

right and and as that happens

their currency becomes a bitcoin

derivative

do you know how like um like a stock is

a derivative like microstrategy is a

bitcoin derivative

so is gbtc

so is uh beto

right uh so is a bitcoin miner they're

all securities but they're derivatives

of bitcoin are they better than bitcoin

well not over the long run over the long

run bitcoin is the best thing

are they different yes but are they

better as bitcoin derivatives than if

they were gold derivatives

see if microstrategy bought 500 million

in gold instead of 500 million in

bitcoin we'd be a gold derivative

and gold has been flat to down in the

past two years

so you see

if a nation adopts the gold standard its

currency becomes a gold derivative

if it adopts a bitcoin it becomes a

bitcoin derivative the more uh bitcoin

technology and bitcoin asset value in

the citizens and the corporations

domiciled in the nation state

the stronger the nation is the more

rational it gets the stronger its

currency gets

so

the problem

that the stark problem is when the

currency is inflating at 50 a year

like let's say argentina

right that's this that's the obvious