Bitcoin Revolutionizes Corporate Finance | Michael Saylor
The Bitcoin Layer · 2023-09-16 · 1h 50m · View on YouTube →
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[Music]
welcome back to the Bitcoin layer I'm
Nick Bhatia and today we welcome back
Michael Saylor Michael has joined us for
two episodes number one to cover Bitcoin
versus Real Estate and the second
comparing Bitcoin to equities today
we're going to compare Bitcoin to
sovereign debt specifically with regard
to specific investors and how they are
going to treat Bitcoin versus sovereign
debt Michael welcome back to the show
yeah thanks for having me Nick let's
start with the fair value accounting
breakthrough about Bitcoin
and the ability for companies to treat
Bitcoin as a cash metric so can you get
into that and explain it to the viewer
sure
um
uh the accounting treatment for Bitcoin
up until
probably 2024
is as indefinite and tangible and so if
you're a gap accounting company in the
western world
generally what that means is that if you
were to acquire
Bitcoin on your balance sheet
then when it trades down you'll take the
losses
and when it trades up you will not
recognize the gains
and so it's a one-way ratchet function
on a balance sheet you will mark it down
to the lowest price it ever traded at in
the history of your ownership of it
and then you will never be able to
recognize the current price
that it that it is valued at so so it
creates a degree of opacity and
confusion in the balance sheet and then
that confusion in the balance sheet also
washes through to be confusing in the p
l because
if you actually have a if you have a
example where Bitcoin trades down you
take the loss and it becomes an
operating loss
so you could actually buy Bitcoin have a
trade down 50 million dollars and it
would offset 50 million dollars of
operating income and so the p l of the
business that generated 50 million
dollars of operating income would look
like it generated zero dollars
so
you're you're not breaking it out as an
investment gain an investment loss
you're actually combining uh your losses
from the investment in Bitcoin with your
losses from the operation of the
business
and that means that if you're a
objective Observer you can't tell
whether the operating business made or
lost money
and you can't tell whether the
investment made or lost money
you're generally going to be biased
toward presuming that the business lost
a lot more money than it did because
when the business makes investment gains
it won't show them and when it makes
losses it will show them so the
ownership of Bitcoin on the balance
sheet under indefinite intangible
treatment will always be a drain to the
balance sheet a liability of the balance
sheet optically
and it will also be a liability to the p
l
this is the kind of treatment you would
give to a very scary exotic asset that
you didn't want people to acquire
and uh so generally it's the bucket you
put in anything that's new or different
misunderstood or or you just don't have
time to deal with
uh between the years 2020 and 2023
it became increasingly clear to the
accounting establishment that there are
a lot of mainstream companies that
wanted to acquire and hold Bitcoin so
microstrategy was uh the first really
big uh public acquirer of Bitcoin but
but uh block acquired Bitcoin and then
all the Bitcoin miners acquired Bitcoin
and then Tesla acquired Bitcoin and this
became a public issue
it was taken up uh
with a lot of Community Support by fasby
after a very thoughtful process they
came to the conclusion unanimously that
they should give Bitcoin fair value
accounting treatment rather than
indefinite intangible accounting
treatment uh the latest uh the latest uh
communication on that indicated that
they'll make this mandatory for all
public reporting companies as of
December 15th of next year
so as we go into fiscal years that end
after December 15th of 2024 this will be
common practice and between the
beginning of 2024 in the end it'll it'll
be optional I think for companies to
decide whether they wish to adopt it
and the significance of fair value
accounting is
that you account for Bitcoin similar to
the way you would account for a
portfolio of Securities on your balance
sheet it kind of works like this if um
if I buy a billion dollars of Bitcoin
and it trades down 50 percent
then in that period at the end of the
period you'll value it at what a in this
case would be valued at 500 million
you'd be holding 500 million on your
balance sheet and you would have a 500
million dollar investment loss
but you would report the investment law
separately from the operating gain or
operating loss of the core business so
now you would see uh there's an
investment with an investment loss
and the fair value at the end of the
reporting period is this much 500
million now if you go a year further and
you regain that loss and you double it
you would now be showing
1.5 billion dollars worth of investment
gains and you would have two billion
dollars on your balance sheet and the
operating losses or gains of the Core
Business would would continue uh you
know unobstructed or or unmodified so
now you have two parts to the business
you have the balance sheet part of the
business where you have investment
losses and investment gains and you have
the p l or the operating side of the
business where you have investment where
you have operating losses and operating
gains
um
this is uh really critical
because if you have a healthy business
let's say Facebook or apple and you have
a lot of cash flow
you're never going to want to present
the business as though it had no cash
flow or or it had no operating profit
and it was losing money by virtue of
owning a volatile treasury asset
so the volatility of Bitcoin combined
with indefinite and intangible treatment
makes the holding of it toxic
to a conventional company a conventional
CEO a conventional CFO would never want
to hold anything more than a trace
amount
this is one of the reasons why many
people considered it and didn't take it
on their balance sheet and why other
companies that hold it don't want to
hold more than a small amount of five
percent or one or two or three percent
of their balance sheet
so the transition to fair value
accounting means that now they don't
have to worry that the volatility of the
asset will interfere with the
transparency of their operating business
and that's a big plus and the second
plus of course is if I told you you
could invest money in something but you
could never recognize the gains from the
investment that would be a big letdown I
guess a big negative if I'm going to
invest a billion dollars and make 10
billion dollars but no one knows
then then I guess I would rather invest
a billion in something that I could get
compensated for or recognized for
rewarded for so
with fair value accounting not only do
you not interfere with the transparency
of the operating business but you also
are able to recognize the investment
gains over time both in your p l you
could show if you're holding a billion
dollars of Bitcoin and it trades up 20 a
year you'll be showing 200 million
dollars a year of investment gains right
and so that's that's significant that
actually will impact your eps
right so so it's going to be accretive
to your earnings per share and it's
going to be a creative to your earnings
in general so that's a plus it's also
going to be a creative to your balance
sheet now you'll be actually you'll show
that your balance sheet grew by 200
million dollars in that period so that's
a big plus
and then um
there are some intangibles here well not
intangibles they're uh they're secondary
benefits
um if you have fair value accounting and
this year you have 10 billion dollars of
Bitcoin but last year you had 5 billion
than when an objective Observer or an
investor looks at your P L's or and your
balance sheets over three years they'll
see you went from two billion to 5
billion to 10 billion and that makes
sense that's logical right that tells a
story in a matter of seconds but under
indefinite intangible treatment
the balance sheet would show two billion
going to 1 billion going to 800 million
over the three years so the story is
actually the opposite of what happened
it looks like you have a lot less money
it looks like it's not the strategies
failing not working and you can't
compare previous periods to current
period
so it's impossible to compare the
strength of one balance sheet of a
company over time with uh indefinite
intangible but with fair value you can
and then of course if you can comparing
two companies
that both hold Bitcoin
one company has 10 billion dollars of
Bitcoin the other company has five
billion dollars of Bitcoin
under indefinite intangible it could
look like the company with less Bitcoin
has more and the company with more
Bitcoin has less
say the company that has the 10 billion
could look like it has 1 billion and the
company that has the 5 billion could
look like it has 2 billion
and so you can't compare One Security to
another security or one investment
opportunity to another investment idea
because you don't have transparency to
the fair value at the end of the period
in question
so you can see as an investor under Fair
Value accounting you can get a snapshot
of performance across various investment
ideas and performance across time
periods and the real-time strength of
the p l and the performance of various
operating businesses versus each other
and you can figure it out in a matter of
seconds
and under indefinite intangible
accounting treatment you would take
hours and hours
to extract the same Insight so something
would be a hundred times or a thousand
times harder and of course if it's a
thousand times harder for me to
understand what you're saying I would
just tend to tune out
right I mean professional investors have
to
they have to compare 10 000 different
ideas every minute of the day they don't
have time to spend a week
comparing one idea to the other ten
thousand ideas right it's the odd the
odd man out or the Oddball so you would
just ignore it so the significance of
fair value accounting coming to bitcoin
is
it uh it makes the asset non-toxic for
an operating company to hold or a
company that uses Gap accounting
it also
um makes it transparent uh the
performance of Bitcoin backed companies
to be transparent and so that's a a
positive feedback loop right when
Bitcoin companies are performing well
it'll be obvious to Wall Street and
they'll want to finance more of them
right so that's a secondary benefit and
the third is um
because Bitcoin is a commodity it's a
financial commodity it can be held on
the balance sheet of an operating
company
where
right now only treasury assets or or
sovereign debt type assets can be held
on that balance sheet as a as a treasury
strategy so
before before Bitcoin there really
wasn't
any good fungible commodity that I might
hold on the balance sheet my choice was
Securities or property but I can't
really hold property on my balance sheet
if I'm a corporation because it's not
liquid I can't buy 247 million dollars
worth of property a week and then
liquidate 121 million dollars in an hour
right it's it's I it takes me six months
to buy a building and it takes me three
years months or a year to sell the
building so that doesn't really work so
well
as a treasury asset and then uh packages
of Securities are fungible and they're
liquid but Securities are discriminated
against by The Regulators and and if an
operating company holds more than 40
percent of its liquid assets and
securities it's deemed as an SEC 40
reporting company or a financial company
and once it gets uh it gets deemed or
designated as an SEC 40 company the
operating Executives lose the rights to
do many things that operating companies
need to do like issue debt take on
Leverage issue options uh cell
volatility
Etc and so that uh that is really not
it's not a possible regime for an
operating company like Google or Apple
to operate in they have to they have to
stay in operating company they can't be
in ICC 40 company
an example of an SEC 40 company we're
all familiar with is like an ETF
but you can imagine if you picked up the
paper and you read that the that the
Bitcoin ETF issuer had just issued stock
options to all the employees and then
just issued a junk bond and borrowed 10
billion dollars
you would say what
huh what
like you don't expect your mutual fund
operator or your ETF operator to do that
sort of stuff right that's just
inappropriate and you can imagine why
that's inappropriate so there are a lot
of protections for investors in SEC 40
companies and the result is
they're good for what they do which is
they're there to acquire to service
trustees and to acquire a set of assets
for investors and and be trustworthy
custodians
but they're not very good at uh
you know you don't you would never read
your gold ETF is just bought a chain of
restaurants
or a chain of trucking companies right
they don't do Acquisitions they don't
you know they don't do volatility they
don't do leverage that's not what you
want from your SEC 40 company you want
them to be very very simple vehicles
um and uh and so for that reason
uh
Microsoft and Facebook and apple they're
they're not simple
they're here to do more complicated
things and they don't want to be deemed
as an SEC 40. uh reporting entity which
means that um as a practical matter when
they acquire uh cash flows they're
either going to buy currency or they're
going to buy sovereign debt with it the
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so when we think about the benefits from
buying Bitcoin versus sovereign debt for
operating companies where can we start
obviously there are we can start with
the risks of sovereign debt but what
else can we do uh to compare Bitcoin to
sovereign debt with regard to operating
companies and uh the use for that
working capital as you suggest
holding on to that cash is actually
dilutive to shareholders
so you know yeah you're right to focus
on operating companies right there are a
lot of people that have to decide
whether to invest in Bitcoin or invest
in sovereign debt right you've got
endowments you've got retail investors
you've got nation states you've got
institutional investors and you've got
operating companies
so we'll leave aside those other
investors we'll focus on operating
companies operating companies they're
they have a couple of challenges one is
they um
they have this 40 percent
um cap from The Regulators they're
they're not allowed to buy a bunch of
liquid securities
so they are allowed
to acquire a lot of property
it's okay for if you've got a billion
dollars in in working capital you can
buy natural gas with it or oil or Timber
Lumber soybeans
you can buy land
buildings
you can buy Bitcoin
or you can buy sovereign debt
now if you think about your treasury
strategy
um the treasury strategy of an operating
company is we want something which is
liquid and fungible and low risk
so traditionally the most liquid
fungible low-risk financial asset is
just the dollar
the local currency maybe the Euro maybe
the dollar
and
and so that's the that's the obvious
thing to do I collected uh 100 million
dollars this month I put it in the bank
now the problem with that is that the
dollar doesn't generate a yield
and the dollar is is a depreciating uh
debasing financial asset
so in a world where the dollar gets
inflated seven percent a year if the
money supply of U.S currency increases
seven percent a year and it has over the
past hundred years
then a billion dollars in cash is going
to cost you 70 million a year in
purchasing power and of course at seven
percent a year over the course of 10
years you'll cut your asset value in
half
so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to
figure out that that a treasury strategy
based just on currency isn't awesome
um it's dilutive
um
the question here is what's the next
best thing well the next best thing is
sovereign debt
sovereign debt is is debt issued by a
government so you've got the most credit
worthy counterparty maybe the United
States government you don't really think
they're going to default
and that's the advantage of sovereign
debt
you might take on duration risk if you
buy long-term bonds when the interest
rates are low and interest rates go up
then the bond will trade down and you
could get wiped out that way that
happened to a bunch of banks about a
year ago Silicon Valley Bank and the
like they bought long dated credit
instruments and interest rates jump from
zero to 500 basis points
um and then the entry and the the debt
traded down 10 or 15 or 20 and when that
happens you're insolvent technically so
there is duration risk but you know if
you buy three month T bills yielding
more than 500 basis points then now
you've got some yield
you're not concerned about the credit
default risk you're not really concerned
about the duration risk
and so what's the benefit well 500 basis
points is better than zero basis points
and uh on the other end what's the
problem the problem is it's taxable
so it's 500 basis points taxable it
might only be 300 or 350 basis points
after tax so let's say you get to 350
basis points after tax or three and a
half percent interest
now the question is what's the real cost
of capital
well the risk-free cost of capital for
an operating company is set by the
central bank that controls the currency
that it does business in
so if all of your revenues and all of
your cash flows are in the dollar
and if the supply of dollars increases
by seven percent a year
the risk-free interest rate or the
risk-free cost to Capital the hurdle
you've got to get to a seven percent
and um
in this particular case generating uh
three and a half percent interest
against the seven percent cost to
Capital means that you're burning 350
basis points
every year so that's not uh it's not
ideal it's dilutive and um of course
companies are are actually expected to
generate not the risk-free cost to
Capital they're expected to generate the
cost of capital plus a risk premium
so if you're investing in apple
or in any company
um Apple's not the best example because
apple is a digital Monopoly and
everybody knows apple is going to
dominate but if you just took the middle
company the s p index number 250 and you
would say
is there risk to that business sure
there's risk of that business right the
Chinese might embargo this the the
product there might be tariff there
might be strikes right now there are
strikes with all the auto companies uh
there might be an embargo or a trade war
between you know one region and another
it might be the European Union might
designate you as a monopoly and put a
and put some fine on you or put some tax
on you so no matter what company there's
risk competitive risk embargo risk War
risk tax risk labor risk Etc and for
that reason normally what you want is
not seven percent the risk-free rate you
want an extra four five six percent so I
mean probably the right number is 14 is
where you have to get to but but just
generally everybody would say at least a
five four to five percent risk premium
so 12 percent
so the investors are looking for you to
generate 12 return
you're getting zero percent on your cash
you're getting three and a half percent
after tax on your sovereign debt
so what what really happens with
operating companies well
generally most CFOs and CEOs that are
sophisticated they look at this and they
realize that if I generate a hundred
billion dollars of cash flow
and if I hold it in my treasury in
sovereign debt then I'm generating three
and a half percent after tax yield
instead of 12 after tax yield
and that means that I am short eight
eight and a half percent
and so I'm under performing
by call it eight and a half billion
dollars a year
this is a problem for the shareholders
the shareholders are going to say if if
Apple computer
accumulated a hundred billion dollars of
sovereign debt yielding 500 basis points
the shareholders would start to say
well this is dilutive
and uh and you're actually missing out
on an opportunity you're not generating
12 to 14 returns you're generating three
to four percent returns for me give me
the money back I can do better
okay and so
the result is an operating company
strategy or treasury strategy is
normally this you either dividend out
the cash flow you pay a dividend
apple pays a dividend or you buy your
stock back you do a buyback Apple does a
buyback
or you do Acquisitions and you take the
cash and you acquire another company
Disney for example is famous for doing
Acquisitions they bought Pixar they
bought Marvel they bought Lucas Films
right and that was considered to be
reasonable even though they paid a lot
for those for those assets Facebook did
some Acquisitions Oracle does lots of
Acquisitions they've been doing
Acquisitions for 20 years
so conventional wisdom for operating
companies is take your cash and do
Acquisitions issue dividends or do stock
share BuyBacks and of the three the
preferences generally either share
BuyBacks invest in yourself or
acquisitions
go go buy some other asset which is
undervalued like Microsoft right now is
doing this big Activision acquisition a
very big one
and why do they do those things
it's because the monetary policy of the
Central Bank forces them to get rid of
their cash if if the monetary inflation
rate was Zero
if there was no monetary inflation rate
in the Euro or the dollar
then you could simply put your money
into Cash
and it would get more valuable over time
you could probably sweep your money into
debt instruments and it would get more
valuable over time and so this hurdle
rate wouldn't be seven percent the
hurdle rate would be zero percent and it
would change your view of saving toward
invest versus investing
but we live in a world where there's
always systemic and endemic inflation
in uh in the weaker Nations it'll be 14
percent monetary inflation and the
stronger currencies it'll be seven
percent
and when you tap when you attack on top
of that the risk premium that means that
um a stock value an equity share cannot
hold its value unless you can grow the
cash flows per share
faster
than that inflation rate right if you
want to if you want to avoid losing
value you better grow EPS earnings per
share faster than seven percent and if
you want to actually accrete value you
better grow it double that or triple
that
and um
how many companies can do that
organically
somewhere in the name neighborhood of
one or two percent right a very small
number out of the S P 500 you'll only
find a handful that can grow faster than
that inflation rate organically
and so how do you grow your EPS fast if
you're not getting organic growth and
the answer is you either get rid of the
shares right reduce the denominator from
100 million shares of stock to 50
million shares of stock that'll double
your eps
or
you buy another company
with cash or with debt
and especially with cash and that's a
creative because you didn't issue any
more shares but you got more earnings
right now um oftentimes this is coupled
with one other strategy in addition to
dividends BuyBacks and Acquisitions and
sweeping my cash flows into those three
things the other thing that an operating
company does in treasury management is
it borrows money
so you're going to issue bonds you're
going to issue corporate debt you'll
issue junk bonds or you issue some other
form of corporate debt or you'll do
you'll get a term loan from A bank an
asset back financing
or you'll do an lbo right a leveraged
buyout and so companies like Apple
they pair their dividends and their
BuyBacks with corporate borrowing
you know and an Oracle would do the same
thing
and other companies would do the same
thing so what happens if I'm holding 10
billion dollars in in treasury assets
one billion in cash 9 billion in
sovereign debt
but I have a hundred billion in
corporate debt that I've issued
see at that point you have negative
treasury a negative treasury or negative
working capital in a way that is instead
of having 10 instead of having a hundred
billion dollars of capital
you actually have minus 90 billion
dollars of capital you borrowed 100
billion you're holding 10 billion that
you're using
and your minus 90 billion in capital so
instead of having a positive endowment
you have a negative endowment
and the logic of having a negative
endowment is
since
um a hundred billion dollars of of
assets
invested in sovereign debt would be have
a negative real yield of minus four to
ten percent a year
then if I borrow 100 billion it is a
positive real yield a plus four to ten
percent a year so by being the borrower
I'm actually getting cheap Capital if my
stock is uh has as appreciating at a
rate of 14 a year
then I might as well borrow a hundred
billion dollars and pay four percent
interest
and then buy back a hundred billion
worth of my stock which is 14 yield and
then I'm scraping 10 percent yield off
of that right I mean the 14 versus the
four and
um I found a way to actually accrete 10
billion dollars of value a year to my
shareholders by taking on Leverage
so
so the status quo for operating
companies is I don't want an endowment I
want a negative endowment right I don't
want to I don't want to retain capital
I want to I want to distribute Capital
if I can't reinvest it I have to give it
I have to de-capitalize and give it back
the consequence of this is a bunch of
Highly indebted operating companies
everywhere in the world even why would a
company like apple which is the
healthiest company in the world why does
it have so much debt
why would you in debt a healthy company
because if they don't and if they don't
take on the debt it's diluted to the
shares it's bad for the equity
well why is it that you have to actually
and decapitalize the company
and take on negative capital or take on
huge amounts of debt in order to avoid
tanking your stock
and that's because of the monetary
policy of the currency
so when the more inflationary the
environment the more important it is to
be indebted if you were in an
environment like Argentina where you had
hyperinflation the only way you stay
wealthy is to take on a huge loan
in pesos when the peso is 20 to the
dollar and when the peso ends up 800 to
the dollar
right you pay back the loan in in
massively devalued pesos right so you
get rich by getting in debt
so most companies are pretty intelligent
the CFOs are intelligent and they figure
this out
but what's the problem
the problem is
a they de-capitalize by giving all the
money back so they don't have any
Capital so if they run into a crisis
like uh covid uh where the world shuts
down you know the the cruise lines got
shut down for a year the hotels got shut
down for a year when you run into a
crisis you don't have any capital and So
you you're under capitalized and you may
go bankrupt that's the first problem
the second problem is
if you compound it with taking on debt
even if you don't run into a crisis if
if you simply have a bad quarter where
your cash flows are 20 less than they
were the previous quarter you're still
making a ton of money but you trip all
your debt covenants and the debt comes
due and you're insolvent
so you know it's you know it's it that's
that's another massive risk you're
putting a totally healthy company at
risk by loading it up with a ton of debt
so that you might destroy it even though
you had your revenues could be off two
percent from expectation and you could
bankrupt the company
Marvel Comics for example was bankrupted
because it carried too much debt even
though you know people still love the
comics and so so that's the second
problem
the third problem is
you're encouraged to do all these
dilutive Acquisitions and in my
experience in 30 years in business or 30
years of running a public company all of
my competitors were destroyed or failed
because they did bad acquisitions the
number one reason for a software
companies to fail is they did bad
Acquisitions they bought companies for
too much that weren't worth that much
because they were desperate
to buy something to support their own
stock and so it you know if I tell you
you know go out and buy something
expensive by the end of the day you've
got till five o'clock and otherwise you
lose all the money
you know you know you're running around
and you walk into a Persian rug shop and
you and you try to buy the Persian rug
and the guy wants eighty thousand
dollars for it you know it's worth four
thousand dollars and if you can wait for
three days you'll get it for four
thousand but you're bidding against
yourself in a hurry so you pay 42 000
for it
and you tell yourself it was a good deal
because you were going to lose the 42
000 anyway
so
so the existing uh rules
they force everyone to make irrational
decisions take on debt they shouldn't
take on by companies they shouldn't buy
uh issued dividends they shouldn't issue
and buy back shares they shouldn't buy
back and uh
the significance the significance of
Bitcoin
is uh is
in two ways first of all
CFOs and CEOs starting in 2024 will now
have the option to buy Bitcoin instead
of buying treasury bonds
so now you can buy a commodity that's
liquid and fungible on your balance
sheet
and and that commodity is a scarcity and
because it's a scarcity
that means you can expect it to accrete
in value more than seven percent
probably fourteen percent a year over
the long term even after
I think after we've gotten through the
bull run and after the early adoption
boost which will cause Bitcoin to
appreciate it rates faster than 14 in
the long term over the course of a
hundred years starting a decade or two
decades from now you could expect it to
appreciate it 14 a year if the money
supply or the currency Supply is
appreciating at seven percent a year or
are expanding at seven percent a year so
you've got an asset which will
appreciate in price versus Fiat
and of course bonds don't right bonds
never appreciated in price for the most
part against Fiat you're you're buying
them at par
in in order to get the taxable yield
so that's that's a big deal right
it's not comparable to buying a
portfolio of soybeans or silver or gold
or oil or natural gas because those are
true Commodities and the problem with
commodities
and Bitcoin doesn't have this problem
this is why people have to have to we
should really call it a scarcity rather
than a commodity the problem with
commodities is there's a dysfunctional
systemic
endemic inflation built into the system
not only
is uh is it possible for someone to
create more oil
it is a certain thing that when the
price of oil triples they will create a
lot more oil and no one is concerned
about keeping the supply of oil in check
over the long term there's this
dysfunctional competition
um you can try to create a cartel like
OPEC but uh people that aren't in the
OPEC like the frackers in Texas they're
not in OPEC and they're going to Frack
oil and they're going to bust that
cartel and and all of these Commodities
find their cartels broken and
the goal miners want to produce more
gold the silver people want to produce
more silver soybeans want to produce
more soybeans so Commodities aren't
scarce
and and I want to distinguish between
that kind of uh ungoverned inflation or
dysfunctional inflation versus the
governed inflation of equities
you know Apple computer or any any
company in the S P 500 can also issue
more stock
and if if you buy infinite amounts of
the s p index you'll get a lot more
stocks they will issue more stocks
during you know during the height of the
market boom in
2021 when you had GameStop and you had
all the meme stocks you saw all these
people printing a lot of equity and
selling it to the market
and that's uh and that's the danger of
those assets but at the end of the day
Tim Cook doesn't want to print infinite
Apple stock I mean Tim Cook understands
and his board of directors understand
that if they want to maintain The
credibility of the corporation they have
to maintain some control over the amount
of shares they issue and the same is
true at Microsoft and the same is true
at Google they may print more Equity but
it won't be ungoverned and dysfunctional
but imagine there were a hundred
companies called Apple
and they could all print Apple stock
and people want Apple stock so maybe Tim
Cook wouldn't but the Apple competitor
number four in Timbuktu they could and
they could sell Apple stock
well in that case they're all going to
print as much as they can to drive the
price down because they're ungoverned
and and in fact they have an incentive
to sell the stock and so that's what
it's like in the Commodities business
somebody somewhere has an incentive to
drive the price of that commodity down
and they will sell as much as they can
get their hands on and so that being the
case
there's never been a commodity like
Bitcoin that was scarce
the closest thing
to something like Bitcoin would be
um acreage in Palm Beach
or acreage in Miami Beach not not the
square footage but rather the underlying
dirt because there's only so many linear
feet of beachfront property in Palm
Beach for the last 100 years and no
amount of money Printing and no amount
of capital and no amount of technology
and no amount of manufacturing know-how
creates more beachfront property in Palm
Beach
so when you look at that scarce
desirable property that you can't create
more of you can see that actually does
go up in value that's gone up by a
factor of a thousand in the last hundred
years
thousand X and that appreciates at the
rate that the money expands
but the problem is
it's not a treasury asset I can't buy
and sell square feet of Palm Beach every
day in the market I can't liquidate It
On Demand so the kind of property that I
would want to hold I can't hold as the
CFO of a publicly traded company the
kind of stuff I can hold
sovereign debt it isn't scarce and it's
a currency derivative
and so Bitcoin is this new thing it is a
digital scarcity that's liquid that's
fungible that gets commodity treatment
that I can hold on a balance sheet as a
treasury asset and while the currency is
not generating a yield and the bonds
aren't trading up in asset value and
they're generating taxable yield and
with a negative real yield
Bitcoin will appreciate in price
tax deferred
and so what you've got is that is you
have the opportunity of your Apple
computer
to buy a hundred billion dollars worth
of an asset which will appreciate
fifteen to twenty percent a year with no
tax load
so you're picking up a 20 a 20 billion
dollar shareholder gain
as an investment income
right with a very favorable tax
treatment
and what's the second best idea
well I mean the second best idea is
I allocate 10 of my treasury to the s p
index
and I don't get the Fourteen percent
gain I get a seven percent gain
and I can't ever have more than a small
amount
because otherwise I'll trip those SEC
Covenants
but that second best idea isn't all that
compelling because the Institutional
Investor looks at that and says you
could have just given me the money and I
could have put it in the s p index
you know so you're not really doing
anything I can't do
and uh and you're not really getting
that much of a yield you're not using
any strategic advantage that you have
uh in order to generate uh something in
excess of the s p return
so
fair value accounting opened the door
for Bitcoin to serve as a treasury asset
for an operating company
and
the first order
action of that would be
I'm a CFO and I start to allocate some
of my Capital from treasury assets to
bitcoin
maybe instead of 90 treasuries ten
percent cash I go 10 Bitcoin 80 treasury
10 cash
and then of course maybe then 20 Bitcoin
70 treasuries Etc so we start to see a
creeping up of allocation from
treasuries uh to uh to bitcoin
but the second order effect which is a
much more profound effect
is to basically turn the entire theory
of Treasury Management on its head
instead of dispersing all my cash flows
to my investors via BuyBacks
instead of buying my my stock back I buy
Bitcoin instead of doing Acquisitions of
other operating companies I do an
acquisition of Bitcoin instead of
dividending out my cash flows which
generates a taxable event
for my investors I actually buy Bitcoin
which is tax deferred asset appreciation
for my investors and I'm doing something
for them which is beneficial to them
because they can't necessarily do that
themselves
right and so that's a benefit to them
and
I'm strengthening my core business
because I'm putting a strong Capital
Foundation underneath it so instead of
people worrying that I might get
liquidated or I might uh I might trip a
debt Covenant I'm now deemed to be an
extremely well capitalized company with
a longer a longer duration longer time
Horizon and I can invest the earnings
from that balance sheet back into the
core business or I can use them for
strategic Acquisitions in the future or
the like
so
I think I think we're at a a very
important inflection point
where it was
for 50 years
and since 1971
we've been in an inflationary
environment and so from 1971 to 2024
your treasury strategy is to
decapitalize generate a negative a
negative treasury right negative capital
in order to debt finance and then just
do BuyBacks and Acquisitions and that
was a it's an environment that creates
fragile companies
that are highly likely to fail
doing bad deals
right uh with a short life expectancy
and uh did we see that yeah absolutely
every single competitor of microstrategy
went out of business in 20 years
everyone out of 100 a hundred public
companies every one of them failed
except for us because of their treasury
strategy and if you look at the uh the
life expectancy of public publicly
traded companies and most corporations
has been very short
and it's been very short
because they don't have the ability to
accumulate an endowment
and if you consider if you compare them
to the uh life expectancies or the
duration of universities like Harvard or
Yale or Stanford or of other
institutions those other institutions
have lived a long time because they have
endowments
so Harvard if you wanted to run Harvard
like you run an operating company here's
what you would do you would say
you have to basically disperse all of
your endowment back to the graduates
and then you have to borrow a hundred
billion dollars
and pay four percent interest and then
you have to grow your student Base by 20
a year every year
and you have to raise the prices by 15 a
year every year so imagine Harvard you
know growing their student population by
15 to 20 percent a year raising their
prices perennially borrowing as much
money as they could but no endowment
and then would they still be here
no yeah absolutely not so when you put
it like that it's pretty obvious why
corporations struggle
and that it isn't good for society it's
it's bad for the civilization because
destroying one company after the other
means you're putting all these people
out of work you're destroying capital
you're you're idling headquarters your
idling factories right how did we hollow
out all the manufacturing in the United
States
we destroy the manufacturers we destroy
the jobs you know it's bad for labor
it's bad for the country it's bad for
everywhere the only people that benefit
are the financial Engineers right that
know how to take advantage of this or
the politicians but um
in 2024 there's a new regime it's now
possible for corporations to create
endowments
that are compliant with uh corporate law
and and rules of an operating company
and that can create a positive cycle
the more Capital you keep the more
assets you have
um the higher your investment Returns
the the larger your balance sheet
the more stable the company
the the more you can invest the better
your product get the better Services you
get Etc
microstrategy for example is a is a
little example in a microcosm of that we
had a um a 666 million dollar Enterprise
value 36 months ago
and we had 500 million dollars in cash
that was generating zero percent
interest a liability
and um and then we had maybe a stock
that had about a 1.2 billion dollar
market cap so the company was valued and
we had maybe revenues of 500 million
we're kind of valued at one times
Revenue
or or the Enterprise Value Plus the cash
and we could expect to get nothing from
our Treasury and if there's inflation of
40 percent then that means the 500
million dollars would be worth 300
million dollars in short order so we're
just looking at destroying our
treasury's value and getting no lift
from the operating business so what we
did was we inverted the company and we
first invested half of the treasury in
Bitcoin
then we invested the rest of the
treasury in Bitcoin after a Dutch
auction and then we uh then we took on
2.2 billion dollars of debt in three
different transactions
borrowing money at one and a half
percent interest and bought Bitcoin and
then we issued about the same amount or
not quite that much but billion to two
billion dollars in equity and we bought
Bitcoin and so today the Enterprise
value of the company is 10x more than
10x it's 7 to 8 billion dollars
instead of 600 million
and the equity value of the company is
4X
and the stock has outperformed Bitcoin
and outperformed the s p so we made a
lot of money for our shareholders we
outstripped all our competitors in big
Tech all of our competitors in
Enterprise software
and we have more than four billion
dollars of Bitcoin on the balance sheet
so if if Bitcoin hits that long-term uh
appreciation of say 15 percent then that
means the company generates 600 million
dollars a year of investment income
which is more than the revenue of the
company
before we started this exercise
and that compounds
tax-free
right tax deferred so you're looking at
at uh 600 million and 700 million and
800 million than a billion than one
billion two you see so
you've actually got a
sustainable strategy
to ride the wave of inflation
while strengthening the endowment or the
capital structure of the company
while supporting the operating mission
of the company
which is again not unlike a Harvard
University or or any other Ivy League
school with a properly managed endowment
maybe a bit better because Bitcoin is a
much better asset than those endowments
have right now
but you can see there a model for a
different treasury strategy
I I would say you could I'll boil this
down and summarize which is
the law of the land and regulations
is is uh detrimental to operating
companies operating companies are not
allowed to have an endowment or a
balance sheet they are discouraged from
having positive Capital they're
encouraged to run the business on
negative capital
uh liabilities not assets
endowments non-profits religious
organizations churches
and institutions are able to run on uh
positive capital
so those entities are beneficiaries of
monetary inflation to the extent that
they invest in scarce desirable assets
and then operating companies are just
like workers laborers
right they are discriminated against
they are they are the victims of
monetary inflation
um High monetary inflation is a road to
serfdom for the worker
and it's a road to serf them for the
operating company and the reason that we
have uh Capital markets that are
attending toward monopolies
and the big just keep getting bigger
right big Tech big Pharma big banking
big utilities big government big
entertainment the reason they keep
getting bigger is the monetary policy
destroys anybody's ability to accumulate
capital
or lever the capital and everyone is
encouraged to engage in irrational
short-sighted Behavior
right you've got a nice company here's
my here's my advice for you
give away all your profit
go buy companies that aren't as good as
yours as fast as you can and overpay for
them
and borrow as much money as you can at
whatever interest rate you have to pay
and if and uh and then keep buying back
the stock of the company
with the cash flow so that you have no
cash
you have only liabilities
and you're in a hurry and you have to
buy another bad company and then buy a
company twice as big as that that's even
worse and keep buying bad companies
that are in trouble
at a at too high a price until
eventually you blow up right that's
conventional treasury strategy
and you might say well
if that's true if it's that irrational
then shouldn't I expect to see the
majority of companies failing and going
out of business and I'm like yeah and
yeah it is look at them
they are if you actually study a hundred
thousand companies created in the past
30 years and ask how many are still here
and how did they fail you'll find they
all sold out they all that many of them
did a succession of Acquisitions and
then failed are they all sold out or
they were rendered insolvent or they
couldn't pay back their debt and
eventually they throw in the towel and
then who wins
the digital monopolies win right
John D Rockefeller rolled up all the
other oil companies and you know the big
tech companies will just roll up every
other smaller company
and in the meantime investors will do
these lbos to try to squeeze something
out of the companies and enter them
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off we talked we got into this
conversation uh honestly quite honestly
thinking that we were going to compare
Bitcoin to treasury Securities and maybe
the risks of each and the investment
properties but instead the direction
that you're going here it's much more
societal in nature what you're actually
saying is that the in endemic and
systemic inflation completely distorts
the operating company's motives from
being an entity that can create an
endowment and accumulate Capital over a
long time to an entity that is forced to
get rid of the cash as fast as it can
and engaging in mergers and Acquisitions
in which actually just creates these
large monopolies and so we're talking
about something much more societal in
nature than just comparing the risks of
two different asset classes so talk a
little bit more about just societally
what you see is it this accounting new
fair value accounting rule that is going
to unleash some maybe behavioral changes
in the society or is it already underway
because we have Bitcoin talk to us about
that
well you know we use the phrase Bitcoin
fixes this
right Bitcoin is sound money and and
Bitcoin is thermodynamically sound
financial asset and a thermodynamically
sound
um
strategy so
people haven't had
a thermodynamically sound saving
strategy
up until now right the the closest thing
to sound money
in the current world before Bitcoin
is uh is scarce desirable real estate
that's the closest thing
and uh and most wealthy uh most wealthy
families most wealthy investors I run
into
they um
they own real estate
and they own real estate in London and
Paris in New York and la and and
middle of Miami places that people want
to be
and the strategy for accumulating wealth
is leverage long
property
right if you really want to get rich if
you want to get rich then you have to
borrow a lot of money
buy something highly desirable hold it
for a long period of time wait for the
monetary inflation to drive up the value
of it
right you bought a billion dollars worth
of real estate in London you paid three
percent interest it traded up seven or
eight percent a year
and you're generating four percent yield
on a billion dollars every year for ten
years and all of a sudden you've just
made yourself hundreds and hundreds of
millions of dollars right
so
that has been uh the only strategy I
think um Bitcoin is is now emerging
as something Superior to that Bitcoin
allows you to take on
a strategy of acquiring scarce desirable
property but now you can acquire it and
and um units of twenty dollars at a time
or 200 at a time and so it's in
egalitarian
strategy uh for wealth creation or
wealth preservation
the the big Catalyst here
I mean the first one was you know
satoshi's creation of Bitcoin right put
a big star on on the map nearly 15 years
ago coming up in a few weeks is the
anniversary of the white paper
um
the second big milestone was the end of
the block size Wars when uh Bitcoin was
established you know as this this
um censorship resistant Network that's
resistant to the meddling of corporate
interests and others and uh and we
sorted out what's the dominant chain
and and a lot of
a lot of theory
and a lot of values got cemented in the
block size Wars
uh I think the third Milestone is is the
entrance of is actually covid covid and
the entrance of Corporations right covid
catalyzed corporations to look at
Bitcoin so without covid microstrategy
doesn't do Bitcoin and without
microstrategy doing Bitcoin probably the
next set of companies don't do it you
don't get two dozen Bitcoin holders and
then you don't get the accountants
interested that you don't get fair value
accounting and you don't get the the
clamor for the ETFs and the spot ETFs
so so that was the next Milestone then
after that the uh the spot ETF will be
the next really big milestone because
it'll be
A high bandwidth institutional on-ramp
for tens of billions or hundreds of
billions of dollars of capital and um
and so that's really key
so and then after that
um
the Embrace of the traditional banking
networks right the Deutsche Banks the
santanders other Banks starting to
custody Bitcoin
um and provide banking services
so all of those things coming together
they actually deliver a digital scarcity
as a fungible liquid asset to all
classes of investors
now
if we consider them the retail investors
will benefit they they've been engaged
but there'll be an order of magnitude
increase in retail participation with
spot ETFs because because uh just about
every working person has a 401k that's
wired through conventional Wall Street
money managers and so you'll start to
see the flow of those kind of funds
enabled by the fidelities and the black
rocks of the world
and that'll that will increase retail
participation by an order of magnitude
institutional participation will will
also increase by orders of magnitude
because the spot ETF
they really can't they can't engage in
the current structure because
all the institutional money managers
have accounting systems compliance
system control systems Risk Management
Systems
um
that are all trading systems and
collateral systems that have all been
built over 30 years
and in that system they can punch a
button and buy a million dollars of
Apple stock or a million dollars of a
gold ETF or a million dollars worth of
the s p index or a million dollars in
bonds and they can just do it instantly
and everything is accounted for and if
they make money they get compensated and
if they lose money right they they get
criticized and at the end of the year
their taxes get paid that way and if
they want to buy a hundred million
dollars their Bank like JP Morgan fronts
them the money
you know and and so that entire system
which is which is a combination of
technical functionality and accounting
functionality and risk management
functionality and financing
functionality all of that gets in
activated by the ETFs
so they will be able to participate and
we will start to see an evolution in
portfolio thinking it's pretty clear
that the 60 40 portfolio is is uh uh a
thing of the 20th century and people are
starting to question it and so now I
think you'll start to see portfolio
models that might vary if if it becomes
when there's digital gold and people say
if you like gold buy 50 real gold 50
Bitcoin
right your portfolio models break
and lots of capital flows into Bitcoin
when people say the 60 40 portfolio only
made sense when there were only bonds
and stocks but now there's stocks bonds
and Bitcoin now maybe it's 60 2020 or it
starts to be 50
30 20 or something and so those models
start to change and the asset
allocations will change with them and uh
and that'll have an impact and then of
course
for um for operating companies we just
talked about it a lot now it's possible
to be a treasury asset and that means
that maybe
maybe instead of operating companies
remitting 95 percent of their cash flows
back to their investors
what if they actually kept half their
cash flows
right so you might see a huge amount of
capital moved from institutional
investors and endowments
back to the operating companies
right there's no reason why Apple might
at some point end up with hundreds of
billions or trillions of dollars of
assets on its balance sheet instead of
no net assets on its balance sheet
there'll be lots of interesting debates
over it but the point is now it's not
even possible and in the future it will
be possible
um I think that uh
that Bitcoin will creep into Sovereign
balance sheets both Sovereign wealth
funds as well as Sovereign Nations it'll
start with the smaller ones that are
more Innovative as a small percentage I
know over time it will grow
it's it's not going to replace
the currency that's used as currency or
the sovereign debt used as the lowest
risk asset it's going to replace
real estate and equity and property and
all the other things that people buy
it's like you know if if you're the
Sovereign wealth front of Norway and
you're comfortable holding a hundred
billion dollars of s p equities
you know you could allocate half of that
to bitcoin instead
and you might very well convince
yourself that that's diversification and
that's less risky
so Bitcoin does serve it serves this uh
this new emerging role right which is as
a diversifier
and I think that at this point it's
probably worthwhile for us to come back
to how does Bitcoin compare to to uh
sovereign debt as an investment asset
and if we think about that
um
sovereign debt is uh low risk money it's
a monetary investment I'm I've got a
hundred million dollars in cash flow and
I have to I have to hold it somehow so
I've decided I'll invest 90 million of
it in treasury bills with a duration
from three months to 12 months
low duration risk low credit risk I'm
getting some yield I'm holding it as a
currency a currency substitute of sort
foreign
what's the negative the positive and how
do I compare it to bitcoin well
I mean Bitcoin is a non-sovereign store
of value Bearer asset that does not
generate yield
treasuries are a sovereign
asset sort of a bearer asset for the
most people think of it that way
although it's not quite but it has
counterparty risk
in uh in a couple of ways it has
counterparty risk over the long term
because there's inflation of the unit
it's currency derivative
it it doesn't have counterparty risk if
it's the reserve currency of the world
but every other piece of sovereign debt
has counterparty risk because
Argentine dead instruments get defaulted
on Nigeria might default on their debt
so most Nations other than than
um
the United States could default on their
debt
and they could do a soft default or they
or they always have this option of
a a subtle default which is I'm just
going to print twice as much of this
stuff
and I'll pay you off in the currency
unit but I'll devalue the currency unit
so so I'll devalue my currency to pay
you off and and maybe I'll devalue in
the near term or maybe I'll devalue you
like if I basically issue a bunch of
10-year Bonds in the euro
the cut you know and in 10 years I told
you that there's going to be 10 times as
many euros in circulation well then you
don't want to be holding the 30-year
Euro bonds
you might not be devalued in the next 12
months but you're getting devalued in 10
to 20 years and so the 30-year Euro
bonds are going to mature worthless
right so so
vereign debt has a lot of that kind of
duration counterparty risk
um and with every company country every
every kind of sovereign debt has
duration counterparty risk because they
can change their monetary policy and
then all of the weaker countries the
second third tier countries have credit
risk as counterparty risk
and even if you have
um even if you have you know no duration
if you have 90-day uh
sovereign debt from the United States
you still have sanction counterparty
risk if you're on the wrong side of the
nation in a war then you're going to
find yourself sanctioned and those those
uh
instruments are going to be canceled
so they are securities their securities
issued by a government
right a nation-state and they're senior
to of course a whole class of other
credit Securities like the municipal
bonds that are issued by cities like New
York or states or or of course corporate
bonds and other kinds of bonds
um
Bitcoin uh
is it is advantaged to those Sovereign
Securities in a variety of ways one is
there's no counterparty so there's so
you don't have a council that sets
monetary policy
that's a big Advantage the second is
there's no nation state
behind it so that's a that's a big
Advantage the third is it it is a asset
you can self-custody
it really isn't practical for a
corporation to custody a billion dollars
worth of government bonds
it's very you know you're gonna have to
put in a bank and the issue is
you may if you have government bonds in
a bank in in the middle of Africa then
maybe the bank in Africa seizes your
bonds even though they're U.S bonds
so how do you how do you actually move
your money if you actually make a
billion dollars in a country
that's not the US
you convert your money into bonds take a
10 haircut then you take a 30 haircut to
get the bonds out of the country
then when they're in the next country
you've got 60 cents on the dollar left
and now you've just got the counterparty
risk to the United States in duration
right um and so
all of these are challenges you can't
really manage with sovereign debt with
Bitcoin
by looking at the advantages in addition
the fact that no one can manipulate the
monetary policy and you don't have a
sovereign that you're facing or any kind
of government agency that you're facing
the other Advantage is you've got a
better tax treatment which is at the end
of the day you would much rather have
something that appreciates five percent
a year tax deferred than something that
pays you five percent yield that's
taxable
and of course Bitcoin
is going to appreciate more like 15 a
year you know in the conservative case
so if I had a choice of 15 no tax
asset appreciation which then compounds
would you rather have compounding 15
percent
tax deferred appreciation or
non-compounding after tax taxable five
percent yield
right it's pretty obvious which one
you'd like
there's a lot of uncertainty about taxes
so to the extent that you're able to own
an asset and not generate a yield and
never have to sell it
right then you've you've got maximum tax
advantage versus what you might find is
excise taxes you know income taxes
capital gains taxes and the like and
they can be layered across all the
jurisdictions
so
I look at Bitcoin like that
um clearly the tax treatment's another
big advantage and then finally
a huge advantage and there's two more
advantages one is duration Bitcoin is
the longest duration financial asset you
could own
I mean you've probably heard of like the
50-year UK guilts right 50-year Bond a
40-year bond but what about a
Thousand-Year instrument right like what
if I could hold it forever for 100 years
or a thousand years so Bitcoin is
constructed so that you can hold it
longer than the duration of a company
no Apple's never going to issue a 100
year bond
right and and of course a small
competitor to Walmart is not going to
issue a 50-year bond no one would want
to hold it for 50 years the company
might not be there
so the useful life or the life
expectancy of companies is short the
life expectancy of of uh developing
World debt
is also short within 20 to 30 years
every developing world country will
default on its debt so you can't really
hold a 50-year or 30-year developing
world bond
you know I
people have been reluctant to hold
anything longer than a 30-year U.S Bond
and if you look at um if you look at the
life of a currency
you know the Mexican currency hasn't
lasted 50 years
no Argentine currencies lasted 50 years
I mean world currencies last 100 years
Max so
the Russian currency failed 25 years ago
completely
so the world's full of examples of
currencies that don't last 50 years for
sure
and uh so Bitcoin is um
a longer duration asset than any kind of
bond
and it's even a longer duration asset
than that Palm Beach real estate if you
actually go to Palm Beach what you'll
find is actually the beach in Palm Beach
is eroding away
like there's 10 feet of beach between
the breakers
you know and uh and the water
and so
you can't even be guaranteed the beach
will be there
not for a thousand years maybe not for a
hundred years
and so you wouldn't really want to make
a Thousand-Year investment in a building
or in a piece of land
how long will you live in a given Nation
right can you pick it up and carry it
with you
so big Bitcoin it it's uh it has this
big set of tax advantages
I mean the last tax advantage by the way
I didn't notice property tax advantage
you can put a property tax on a building
or on an acre and you can't move the
building and you can't move the acre
but if you put a property tax on bitcoin
you can move the Bitcoin to Singapore
you could take it with you to Monaco
you could set up a company in Bermuda
you could move your family to El
Salvador
so the likelihood that you can actually
find a jurisdiction
with a better tax treatment is much
higher
um
you know
at the end of the day it's possible for
a nation the United States could put a
tax on the bond and say we're going to
tax you two percent of the value of all
the bonds you own
if they're U.S treasury bonds then
that'll follow you everywhere on Earth
but it's not so likely that the United
States is going to actually put a tax on
property that's not in the United States
that's not issued by the U.S
right might much much less likely that
you'll ever see that I mean they could
in theory
put a property tax on U.S citizens
living outside the U.S but but at some
point you know 10 years after you
renounce your citizenship your children
can probably actually hold some property
that is not subject to any particular
nation state
so
I would say
Bitcoin has a big tax advantage versus
sovereign debt it has a big duration
Advantage versus sovereign debt and
versus any other asset
it um it has Universal worldwide appeal
it has much greater scarcity it's not a
currency derivative
and uh and if you want to actually hedge
against inflation you have to buy
something which is not valued based on
the cash flows it generates
what is valued based on cash flows well
um
currency is 100 currency derivative a
bond is called substantially a currency
derivative 90 90 to 100 currency
derivative depending upon how you view
it
a value stock
is 70 a currency derivative
a Technology stock is a quarter to fifty
percent of currency derivative
a piece of real estate commercial real
estate that generates rents
is half a currency derivative
if the rents are capped at CPI it's even
more a currency derivative
right what's not a currency derivative
it's like if you own some scarce
desirable piece of art
that people want to pay you for just for
the joy of owning it
if if you have a piece of residential
luxury property that people simply want
to own to live in
right if you have a trophy asset if
you're the only person owning the
baseball the Babe Ruth hit out of the
park to break the record
maybe but it needs to be a trophy that
is unrelated
to the cash flows it generates and it
needs to be mobile
because if you have the trophy asset if
you have the best piece of property
in the Weimar Republic when the currency
collapses the property is not going to
be worth much
and even if the economy recovers
you know what's the prop the best house
in Berlin during World War II worth when
the Allies firebombed the entire city
so
ultimately if it's not portable
and is not scarce
it's not going to be uh uh it's not
going to be a hedge against currency
debasement
and so the entire world is looking for
diversification against currency
debasement especially internationally
right especially if you own a portfolio
of stocks in Argentina or turkey what do
you want more than some kind of hedge
against the debasement of that currency
so the world wants a currency Hedge
the gold a bar of gold has been people's
most popular idea but it's not a very
good idea
because it gets cut you know the value
of your goal gets cut in half every 35
years at best so it's just too
inflationary
how how else do I actually create
an asset in an international regime with
inflation that will hold its value
let me let me uh twist it around a bit
if I said to you pick a company
in Argentina that you would like to
invest in right now knowing that there's
inflation hyperinflation which one
right you have to pick a company that
generates cash flows in dollars outside
of Argentina
and then you also have to pick a company
that has uh that won't have its assets
seized by the government
right tricky
your best bet by the way if you want to
fix a company in an inflationary
environment would be the company adopts
a Bitcoin strategy and it sweeps all its
excess cash flows into Bitcoin
so if I show you a hotel in Turkey
and I tell you that they own 10 000
Bitcoin
well you know the company's got a floor
right if it's got no debt and ten
thousand Bitcoin and then you say well
how much do they make every year and I
say well right now they make about 50
million dollars a year in profit and
lira
and they sweep it into Bitcoin
okay well so I can value the company
based upon the balance sheet 10 000
Bitcoin
plus the discounted value of the cash
flows of the p l
so I can estimate that but let's say the
worst thing that happens which is the
value of the cash flows goes to zero
you've got a floor on the value of the
company
if if the company's Enterprise Value is
made up fifty percent of its balance
sheet and 50 percent of its cash flows
then at least I know that uh if I can
buy it at a forty percent discount to
Enterprise Value then I'm probably not
going to lose much money
and the worst is it goes to that
it goes to the value of the balance
sheet assuming it doesn't get
expropriated by the government right
but if it's a multinational and it has
operations in six different countries
and it has um has its Bitcoin custody in
Switzerland
right then then you think well maybe
even things go bad in Africa and it's
African if it's a gold miner in Africa
but it has Bitcoin in Switzerland
right and the Bitcoin is worth half of
the company
then even if it's operations in Africa
gets shut down it's worth something
right
and so
Bitcoin actually serves a useful Road
role it's in it's a way
to diversify
um your portfolio from that currency
risk and from that operating risk
and you can do it if you're an investor
but you can also do it as company
so a company itself can construct an
equity which is Diversified and hedged
against the risks in its own uh
Marketplace
and uh and it can build shareholder
value in that way and so so this is a
global asset and a global strategy
and uh everybody in the world has local
banking risk and local currency risk and
local government risk
but up until Bitcoin they didn't have an
option to actually hedge that risk today
you could actually hold the majority of
your treasury assets outside of your
local banking system
outside of your local currency
outside of your local country
and you could still operate
and I I gotta believe that that's
beneficial in a lot of ways the obvious
way is your company's more likely to
last
the second way is
if you operate a business in let's just
say a Banana Republic country randomly
and it doesn't have a rule of law
if um if the government wants to seize
your mind or seize your bakery or seize
your hotel if all of your assets are in
the local bank under the control of the
government you have no Leverage
right they just take all your money lock
up your bank and take your factory and
your bankrupt
but if you actually have most of your
financial assets outside of that system
then they have a vested interest in
negotiating with you because they
probably like to keep you
a well-endowed a well-endowed
Corporation
providing jobs and making investments in
their country
so you see a strong Diversified
multinational
is going to get treated better than a
local
a local
undiversified manufacturer
right this is the I mean this is the
plight of Jews in the 30s in Germany
right where the Germans just seized all
their money took all their assets took
all their property because they didn't
have a choice
but if um
if you had a choice if you had your
money outside the country then maybe you
would say maybe I'll give you half let
me leave or I give you a quarter
where whereas what really happened in
the day was it rapidly became I give you
90 and then 95 and then it was I will
give you everything I have and my cousin
in America will give you a lot more to
let me out
and so that's the plight of The
Expatriate you know under duress
um in the conventional system
and I think that uh that Bitcoin really
is quite powerful idea
because you can you can build a company
where you're protected from being abused
by the local government or the local
Marketplace by using Bitcoin as treasury
asset but you can also create a security
and Equity that has a lot more appeal to
International investors
because you're holding an international
asset right so you're less risky to
people that would invest in you
and uh and you're respected more and
treated better by those that would abuse
you and so there's really no downside
and of course if you inve if you
generated 10 billion dollars of cash
flow over 10 years and you gave it all
away
when the crisis comes you've got nothing
whereas if you generate the 10 billion
in cash flows and put in Bitcoin when
the crisis comes you'll have 50 billion
dollars in assets you'll have right when
the crisis comes it'll be a non-crisis
right because because in the latter
situation your option is just shut down
the factory leave and have the 50
billion dollars and be rich
whereas the other the other operating
strategy is I gave away my riches to my
investors and if this Factory gets shut
down I have nothing
so one drives it's literally the road to
serfdom right it drives you to
desperation and eventually to death
corporate death and the other is a path
to life and vitality and prosperity
so Michael uh what you talk about with
regard to bitcoin not being a currency
derivative is the thesis that under
underpins layered money and the Bitcoin
layer which is that Bitcoin is its own
layer of money it does not derive from
the balance sheet of any financial
institution and it doesn't have the risk
of any counterparty and that's the most
important uh property about Bitcoin is
its independence from the financial
system the last question I have for you
is about a couple of the topics you've
talked about one being the spot ETF and
the United States uh regulatory
environment and the other being this
source of Bitcoin demand coming from
around the world in countries without
stable currency regimes in countries
that have seen frequent default of their
sovereign debt so maybe you can just
answer for us where is the Bitcoin
adoption gonna come from in the next
five to ten years is it both of these
sources is it one before the other and
what is your vision for Bitcoin adoption
Bitcoin adoption is going to come from
uh all channels uh there are going to be
on-ramps via crypto exchanges everywhere
in the world
there are going to be on-ramps via
peer-to-peer trading people are going to
actually trade their goods and services
for Bitcoin uh to get in the ecosystem
there are going to be on ramps from
uh from operating companies
that start to start to heavily invest in
Bitcoin there's going to be on-ramps
from uh the spot ETF and eventually
they'll be on-ramps from conventional
Banks
like Deutsche Bank and the like
they're all different ways that Capital
will flow into Bitcoin Network
um what will be the biggest
the thing that's going to drive price
most that'll be uh
the first order driver
of the value in the network will be the
spot ETF first
um if you if you have the ability to buy
Bitcoin right now by a crypto exchange
you should count yourself lucky you have
um
if you have the technical capability to
buy it
and if you have uh the knowledge to be
confident in buying it then you're going
to be the winner
because you get to buy it at 26 000 a
coin instead of a million a coin
right and so when uh when the
institutions come massive walls of
capital come and when they buy it
there's there's going to be a massive
short squeeze there's there's not enough
to buy the price is going to have to
adjust up rapidly
and as the price adjusts up then um then
the ability for the humble pleb to stack
SATs and a benefit
it'll be there but it won't instead
you'll be stocking SATs at 250 000 a
coin not twenty five thousand a coin
right and if you're making ten dollars
an hour at McDonald's
right that's the same as as making a
hundred dollars an hour
then right so
you know you'll eventually look back and
say wow I you know I'm paying 40 times
as much
so if you're making ten dollars at
McDonald's that's the same as as getting
paid four thousand dollar or four
hundred dollars an hour right at that
time so right now uh
right now is a very special period
because we're at the tail end of the
crypto period
or the crypto era where everybody got
Bitcoin primarily through crypto
exchanges and we're just at the cusp at
the beginning of the Wall Street error
where people most people will get their
Bitcoin exposure by buying an ETF from
Fidelity or BlackRock or buying some
other security
and um eventually you'll see uh you'll
see a banking error where people will
just go to the their Bank JP Morgan and
they'll buy the asset
and there'll be treasury services for
people who want to hold Bitcoin in kind
and then there'll be others that will
hold the spot ETF because they think
that's a bit easier and then they'll be
they'll always be the community of
maximalist you know that our
self-custing with their own seed phrase
and Hardware wallet and the like
and there will be I think an explosion
in in options and diverse ways to
acquire Bitcoin and whole Bitcoin
I can see at some point when all the
banks have adopted it maybe you acquire
with your bank uh I can see another
point when Apple and Google and
Microsoft will adopt it and maybe you'll
buy it and hold it on your iPhone
I will see I can see a world of a lot of
special purpose you know Bitcoin seed
phrase devices and signing devices and
there'll be competition there and some
people will do it that way
I can see a world where there will be uh
layers
right if Bitcoin is a layer then Bitcoin
sitting in the lightning network is sort
of a layer up if it's custodial
uh Bitcoin sitting in a spot D ETF is
another layer Bitcoin sitting on the
balance sheet of microstrategy when you
own microstrategy stock is another layer
uh Bitcoin sitting custodially in uh in
the iCloud
may feel like a another layer to people
and then Bitcoin insurance policies or I
can imagine Bitcoin funds and other ETFs
that
imagine it's not an ETF which is pure
Bitcoin what if I actually take a short
duration sovereign debt and I'm and I
mix it 50 50 with Bitcoin
so and you know I end up with an
instrument which is on one side it's
generating 500 basis points of taxable
income
and low volatility versus the dollar and
on the other hand it's generating
15 percent tax deferred appreciation and
I create this this instrument which
doesn't have the appreciation of Bitcoin
but it doesn't have the volatility so
you could imagine all sorts of
Securities like that I I think a Bitcoin
is it's like the sucralose of money
you know how you want to make anything
sweet you put a little bit of sucralose
in it and it makes everything sweet your
coffee your your food your drink your
everything
well if I if I put a little bit of
Bitcoin into my insurance policy
my Bitcoin insurance policy has lower
premiums and and higher payout
and my Bitcoin back bonds you know they
have a higher appreciation or maybe I
maybe I lace Bitcoin into the s p index
and I give you half s p and half Bitcoin
and then maybe I give you all Bitcoin
but I think that there'll be lots of
different
Bitcoin assets that people might want to
buy and you could even imagine
Bitcoin uh getting built into different
uh Nations
assets right like if I wanna if if I
want uh to issue bonds as El Salvador I
issue Bitcoin back bonds or maybe in
Turkey I start issuing some kind of
sovereign bond which is half backed by
Bitcoin and half backed by something
else and and I and I give you a tax
advantage to buy it like if you buy this
bond to generate Geo but you don't have
to pay income tax on it like that's how
you New York City municipal bonds work
where the municipal bonds give you a tax
advantage of your New York City dweller
so
I can I can see Bitcoin getting
securitized into lots of different
assets and ultimately it will uh it'll
spread to billions and billions of
people
and they'll use it lots of different
ways
and um
it'll spread to thousands and thousands
of companies and
they'll use lots of different ways and
the early adopters will be The
Visionaries and and the ones that that
have the greatest incentive like some
people have a need
hyperinflation is driving adoption right
I mean the reason that that Bitcoin is
popular in turkey and popular in
Argentina is because the alternative is
not very appealing
if you convert all your money from local
currency to Dollars put in the local
bank and then the bank seizes your
currency converts it back to the local
converts your dollars back into the
local currency and devalues at ten to
one then you're going to realize that
simply buying dollars isn't a solution
so I think that um
adoptions being driven by a variety of
things
I have a price Model for Bitcoin
and my price Model for Bitcoin is is the
price is driven by the monetary
inflation in the fiat currency frame of
reference
that's one part of it
you know if the currency is
hyperinflating and 100 a year you're
going to see uh Bitcoin price in that
currency going up faster than that or at
that rate
so that's the first driver
inflation
but it's a vector depending on the
currency the second driver is um
is
um
in this case uh
the adoption of Bitcoin as a treasury
Reserve asset by the people and the
institutions in the marketplace
so the more people that adopt Bitcoin is
when you're a hodler you've adopted it
as a treasury Reserve asset people say
well that's not using it of course
that's using it in fact the single most
important use of money is to adopt it as
your balance sheet if everybody on Earth
adopted Bitcoin as their primary
treasury asset it would go to 10 million
dollars a coin overnight
and then up up from there so adoption as
a treasury asset is uh is second and
governments can do it
institutions can do it endowments can do
it religions can do it families can do
it corporations can do it right I mean
every entity with a treasury could adopt
Bitcoin as
an asset and there's a there's a degree
right is it one percent adoption five
percent ten percent fifty percent ninety
percent 100 percent
obviously the more adoption the more
power so that's the second driver
the third driver is technology or
utility
right if on the day that Apple says
we've built a Bitcoin signing device
into the iOS phone or the or the iPhone
and now you can use your iPhone and your
Apple watch you know and your MacBook is
a multi-sig setup
you know or you can assign multi-sig
between three members of your family
with family sharing or something when
they do that and they make it
instantaneous and easy then you're going
to see a big surge
in adoption of Bitcoin
right technology drives adoption
and then you'll see a big surge in the
price
now technology is not the only thing
that drives adoption what else drives
adoption hyperinflation right fear
drives adoption so hyperinflation is a
marketing campaign for Bitcoin inflation
is the marketing campaign for Bitcoin
also regulation when The Regulators say
that Bitcoin is a commodity an asset
without an issuer that drives adoption
when they actually approve a spot ETF
that drives adoption when fast B
approves fair value accounting that
drives adoption so regulatory Clarity
drives adoption awareness drives
adoption education Drive adoption
technology you know it's more important
than Apple adopt Bitcoin than it is that
your mobile startup adopt Bitcoin right
if Apple builds Bitcoin into the iPhone
that's more important than the fact that
somebody that wants to launch the next
what's up build Bitcoin into their app
so so the the behaviors of apple and
Microsoft and Amazon and Google they're
all they're just like nation states
really
um
you know if China if China Embraces
China says you can own Bitcoin right the
more of embrace from China the more
Embrace of the EU the more embrace the
of the US the more adoption so those are
the three first order drivers you know
adoption technical utility and inflation
and then the the last a second order
driver
is productivity growth
of the people that have adopted it
right in the extreme and this takes you
to the Austrian economy economics theory
of sound money if everybody uses our
money
then the money and if the economy grows
its supply of goods and services by two
percent a year
the money will get two percent more
valuable each year assuming the money
supply is constant right so ultimately
it's it's not just about adoption but
like imagine
the company that adopts Bitcoin also
doubles their cash flows the next year
you see
right so the productivity of the Bitcoin
Community will ultimately Drive Bitcoin
after we get through the first order
effects
but the first order effects of inflation
and utility and and adoption you know
those things are going to dwarf every
other Factor
and
all of these things are kind of a
function of time right
right one can say over time
information will spread adoption will
spread people will build this into
technology inflation is a function of
time
so over time you can say bitcoin price
is going up over time the reason it's
going up is because of utility adoption
and inflation and productivity because
they're all functions of time
and you know that that's my view on it
and
as you can see the real big question
mark is is what will each individual do
what will each family do what will each
institution do what will each company do
what will every executive do what will
every nation state do everybody chooses
how rapidly and how enthusiastically
they adopt this
asset class and they adopt this network
and they adopt this protocol
right but Bitcoin is
it's uh
it's an asset it's a network
it's protocol and it's an ideology
and it is defended by computer power
electrical power economic power and
political power
and right now it's growing at a very
rapid rate
the computer power is 400 420 hash rate
I would take all the computers in the
world to attack it electrical power is
12 and a half gigawatts the economic
power looks to be about 550 billion
dollars if I calculate the basis of
Bitcoin investors that's how much
money's been invested
you can get to that back of the envelope
estimate if you just take the four-year
simple moving average and multiply by
the outstanding Supply and that's a
pretty good surrogate for on average
what people have invested to buy their
Bitcoin
and then the political power is 220
million people that own some of it
right and I mean that's Google's best
estimate right now I think it's growing
by millions every month
I expect will be a billion sometime this
decade
and of course
people 220 million people with 550
billion dollars invested don't want
their money taken away and and that's
what drives their political behavior and
that's what drives the network
so there we go
Michael thank you so much for sharing
with us your vision of Bitcoin and some
of the Bitcoin adoption metrics that
you're watching uh with Michael Saylor
I'm Nick Bhatia thank you for joining us
once again at the Bitcoin layer uh
Michael tell our audience where they can
find you yeah I post on uh what used to
be Twitter what is now X well on a
pretty frequent basis you can follow me
at myhandle sailor s-a-y-l-o-r
so find me at sailor on on X or you can
go to hope.com and we've got a lot of
useful Bitcoin education materials on
Hope think Bitcoin is Hope
my personal website's michael.com
and uh
I've got an account on Instagram I just
I put cool photos Michael underscore
sailor on Instagram if if people are
hanging out there and uh if you're
really good and you're on Noster you can
find me on Noster sailor at hope.com all
right no sir thank you Michael and we
look forward to talking to you again
yeah my pleasure the Bitcoin layer is
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