SaylorCorpus

Bitcoin Revolutionizes Corporate Finance | Michael Saylor

The Bitcoin Layer · 2023-09-16 · 1h 50m · View on YouTube →

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foreign

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[Music]

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welcome back to the Bitcoin layer I'm

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Nick Bhatia and today we welcome back

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Michael Saylor Michael has joined us for

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two episodes number one to cover Bitcoin

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versus Real Estate and the second

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comparing Bitcoin to equities today

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we're going to compare Bitcoin to

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sovereign debt specifically with regard

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to specific investors and how they are

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going to treat Bitcoin versus sovereign

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debt Michael welcome back to the show

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yeah thanks for having me Nick let's

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start with the fair value accounting

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breakthrough about Bitcoin

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and the ability for companies to treat

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Bitcoin as a cash metric so can you get

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into that and explain it to the viewer

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uh the accounting treatment for Bitcoin

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up until

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probably 2024

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is as indefinite and tangible and so if

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you're a gap accounting company in the

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western world

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generally what that means is that if you

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were to acquire

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Bitcoin on your balance sheet

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then when it trades down you'll take the

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losses

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and when it trades up you will not

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recognize the gains

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and so it's a one-way ratchet function

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on a balance sheet you will mark it down

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to the lowest price it ever traded at in

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the history of your ownership of it

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and then you will never be able to

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recognize the current price

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that it that it is valued at so so it

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creates a degree of opacity and

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confusion in the balance sheet and then

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that confusion in the balance sheet also

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washes through to be confusing in the p

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l because

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if you actually have a if you have a

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example where Bitcoin trades down you

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take the loss and it becomes an

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operating loss

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so you could actually buy Bitcoin have a

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trade down 50 million dollars and it

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would offset 50 million dollars of

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operating income and so the p l of the

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business that generated 50 million

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dollars of operating income would look

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like it generated zero dollars

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you're you're not breaking it out as an

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investment gain an investment loss

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you're actually combining uh your losses

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from the investment in Bitcoin with your

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losses from the operation of the

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business

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and that means that if you're a

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objective Observer you can't tell

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whether the operating business made or

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lost money

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and you can't tell whether the

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investment made or lost money

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you're generally going to be biased

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toward presuming that the business lost

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a lot more money than it did because

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when the business makes investment gains

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it won't show them and when it makes

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losses it will show them so the

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ownership of Bitcoin on the balance

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sheet under indefinite intangible

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treatment will always be a drain to the

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balance sheet a liability of the balance

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sheet optically

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and it will also be a liability to the p

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this is the kind of treatment you would

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give to a very scary exotic asset that

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you didn't want people to acquire

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and uh so generally it's the bucket you

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put in anything that's new or different

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misunderstood or or you just don't have

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time to deal with

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uh between the years 2020 and 2023

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it became increasingly clear to the

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accounting establishment that there are

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a lot of mainstream companies that

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wanted to acquire and hold Bitcoin so

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microstrategy was uh the first really

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big uh public acquirer of Bitcoin but

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but uh block acquired Bitcoin and then

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all the Bitcoin miners acquired Bitcoin

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and then Tesla acquired Bitcoin and this

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became a public issue

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it was taken up uh

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with a lot of Community Support by fasby

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after a very thoughtful process they

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came to the conclusion unanimously that

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they should give Bitcoin fair value

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accounting treatment rather than

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indefinite intangible accounting

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treatment uh the latest uh the latest uh

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communication on that indicated that

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they'll make this mandatory for all

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public reporting companies as of

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December 15th of next year

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so as we go into fiscal years that end

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after December 15th of 2024 this will be

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common practice and between the

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beginning of 2024 in the end it'll it'll

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be optional I think for companies to

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decide whether they wish to adopt it

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and the significance of fair value

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accounting is

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that you account for Bitcoin similar to

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the way you would account for a

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portfolio of Securities on your balance

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sheet it kind of works like this if um

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if I buy a billion dollars of Bitcoin

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and it trades down 50 percent

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then in that period at the end of the

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period you'll value it at what a in this

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case would be valued at 500 million

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you'd be holding 500 million on your

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balance sheet and you would have a 500

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million dollar investment loss

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but you would report the investment law

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separately from the operating gain or

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operating loss of the core business so

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now you would see uh there's an

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investment with an investment loss

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and the fair value at the end of the

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reporting period is this much 500

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million now if you go a year further and

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you regain that loss and you double it

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you would now be showing

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1.5 billion dollars worth of investment

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gains and you would have two billion

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dollars on your balance sheet and the

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operating losses or gains of the Core

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Business would would continue uh you

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know unobstructed or or unmodified so

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now you have two parts to the business

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you have the balance sheet part of the

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business where you have investment

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losses and investment gains and you have

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the p l or the operating side of the

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business where you have investment where

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you have operating losses and operating

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gains

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this is uh really critical

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because if you have a healthy business

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let's say Facebook or apple and you have

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a lot of cash flow

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you're never going to want to present

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the business as though it had no cash

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flow or or it had no operating profit

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and it was losing money by virtue of

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owning a volatile treasury asset

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so the volatility of Bitcoin combined

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with indefinite and intangible treatment

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makes the holding of it toxic

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to a conventional company a conventional

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CEO a conventional CFO would never want

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to hold anything more than a trace

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amount

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this is one of the reasons why many

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people considered it and didn't take it

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on their balance sheet and why other

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companies that hold it don't want to

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hold more than a small amount of five

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percent or one or two or three percent

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of their balance sheet

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so the transition to fair value

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accounting means that now they don't

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have to worry that the volatility of the

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asset will interfere with the

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transparency of their operating business

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and that's a big plus and the second

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plus of course is if I told you you

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could invest money in something but you

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could never recognize the gains from the

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investment that would be a big letdown I

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guess a big negative if I'm going to

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invest a billion dollars and make 10

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billion dollars but no one knows

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then then I guess I would rather invest

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a billion in something that I could get

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compensated for or recognized for

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rewarded for so

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with fair value accounting not only do

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you not interfere with the transparency

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of the operating business but you also

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are able to recognize the investment

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gains over time both in your p l you

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could show if you're holding a billion

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dollars of Bitcoin and it trades up 20 a

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year you'll be showing 200 million

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dollars a year of investment gains right

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and so that's that's significant that

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actually will impact your eps

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right so so it's going to be accretive

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to your earnings per share and it's

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going to be a creative to your earnings

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in general so that's a plus it's also

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going to be a creative to your balance

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sheet now you'll be actually you'll show

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that your balance sheet grew by 200

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million dollars in that period so that's

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a big plus

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and then um

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there are some intangibles here well not

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intangibles they're uh they're secondary

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benefits

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um if you have fair value accounting and

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this year you have 10 billion dollars of

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Bitcoin but last year you had 5 billion

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than when an objective Observer or an

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investor looks at your P L's or and your

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balance sheets over three years they'll

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see you went from two billion to 5

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billion to 10 billion and that makes

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sense that's logical right that tells a

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story in a matter of seconds but under

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indefinite intangible treatment

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the balance sheet would show two billion

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going to 1 billion going to 800 million

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over the three years so the story is

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actually the opposite of what happened

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it looks like you have a lot less money

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it looks like it's not the strategies

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failing not working and you can't

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compare previous periods to current

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period

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so it's impossible to compare the

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strength of one balance sheet of a

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company over time with uh indefinite

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intangible but with fair value you can

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and then of course if you can comparing

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two companies

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that both hold Bitcoin

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one company has 10 billion dollars of

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Bitcoin the other company has five

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billion dollars of Bitcoin

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under indefinite intangible it could

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look like the company with less Bitcoin

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has more and the company with more

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Bitcoin has less

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say the company that has the 10 billion

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could look like it has 1 billion and the

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company that has the 5 billion could

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look like it has 2 billion

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and so you can't compare One Security to

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another security or one investment

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opportunity to another investment idea

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because you don't have transparency to

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the fair value at the end of the period

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in question

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so you can see as an investor under Fair

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Value accounting you can get a snapshot

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of performance across various investment

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ideas and performance across time

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periods and the real-time strength of

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the p l and the performance of various

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operating businesses versus each other

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and you can figure it out in a matter of

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seconds

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and under indefinite intangible

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accounting treatment you would take

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hours and hours

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to extract the same Insight so something

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would be a hundred times or a thousand

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times harder and of course if it's a

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thousand times harder for me to

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understand what you're saying I would

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just tend to tune out

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right I mean professional investors have

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they have to compare 10 000 different

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ideas every minute of the day they don't

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have time to spend a week

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comparing one idea to the other ten

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thousand ideas right it's the odd the

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odd man out or the Oddball so you would

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just ignore it so the significance of

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fair value accounting coming to bitcoin

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it uh it makes the asset non-toxic for

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an operating company to hold or a

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company that uses Gap accounting

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it also

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um makes it transparent uh the

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performance of Bitcoin backed companies

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to be transparent and so that's a a

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positive feedback loop right when

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Bitcoin companies are performing well

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it'll be obvious to Wall Street and

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they'll want to finance more of them

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right so that's a secondary benefit and

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the third is um

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because Bitcoin is a commodity it's a

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financial commodity it can be held on

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the balance sheet of an operating

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company

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where

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right now only treasury assets or or

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sovereign debt type assets can be held

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on that balance sheet as a as a treasury

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strategy so

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before before Bitcoin there really

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wasn't

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any good fungible commodity that I might

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hold on the balance sheet my choice was

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Securities or property but I can't

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really hold property on my balance sheet

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if I'm a corporation because it's not

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liquid I can't buy 247 million dollars

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worth of property a week and then

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liquidate 121 million dollars in an hour

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right it's it's I it takes me six months

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to buy a building and it takes me three

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years months or a year to sell the

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building so that doesn't really work so

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as a treasury asset and then uh packages

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of Securities are fungible and they're

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liquid but Securities are discriminated

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against by The Regulators and and if an

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operating company holds more than 40

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percent of its liquid assets and

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securities it's deemed as an SEC 40

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reporting company or a financial company

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and once it gets uh it gets deemed or

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designated as an SEC 40 company the

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operating Executives lose the rights to

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do many things that operating companies

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need to do like issue debt take on

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Leverage issue options uh cell

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volatility

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Etc and so that uh that is really not

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it's not a possible regime for an

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operating company like Google or Apple

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to operate in they have to they have to

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stay in operating company they can't be

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in ICC 40 company

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an example of an SEC 40 company we're

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all familiar with is like an ETF

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but you can imagine if you picked up the

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paper and you read that the that the

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Bitcoin ETF issuer had just issued stock

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options to all the employees and then

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just issued a junk bond and borrowed 10

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billion dollars

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you would say what

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huh what

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like you don't expect your mutual fund

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operator or your ETF operator to do that

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sort of stuff right that's just

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inappropriate and you can imagine why

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that's inappropriate so there are a lot

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of protections for investors in SEC 40

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companies and the result is

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they're good for what they do which is

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they're there to acquire to service

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trustees and to acquire a set of assets

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for investors and and be trustworthy

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custodians

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but they're not very good at uh

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you know you don't you would never read

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your gold ETF is just bought a chain of

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restaurants

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or a chain of trucking companies right

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they don't do Acquisitions they don't

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you know they don't do volatility they

0:16:07

don't do leverage that's not what you

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want from your SEC 40 company you want

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them to be very very simple vehicles

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um and uh and so for that reason

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Microsoft and Facebook and apple they're

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they're not simple

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they're here to do more complicated

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things and they don't want to be deemed

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as an SEC 40. uh reporting entity which

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means that um as a practical matter when

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they acquire uh cash flows they're

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either going to buy currency or they're

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going to buy sovereign debt with it the

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so when we think about the benefits from

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buying Bitcoin versus sovereign debt for

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operating companies where can we start

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obviously there are we can start with

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the risks of sovereign debt but what

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else can we do uh to compare Bitcoin to

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sovereign debt with regard to operating

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companies and uh the use for that

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working capital as you suggest

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holding on to that cash is actually

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dilutive to shareholders

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so you know yeah you're right to focus

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on operating companies right there are a

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lot of people that have to decide

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whether to invest in Bitcoin or invest

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in sovereign debt right you've got

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endowments you've got retail investors

0:18:11

you've got nation states you've got

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institutional investors and you've got

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operating companies

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so we'll leave aside those other

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investors we'll focus on operating

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companies operating companies they're

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they have a couple of challenges one is

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they um

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they have this 40 percent

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um cap from The Regulators they're

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they're not allowed to buy a bunch of

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liquid securities

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so they are allowed

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to acquire a lot of property

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it's okay for if you've got a billion

0:18:50

dollars in in working capital you can

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buy natural gas with it or oil or Timber

0:18:57

Lumber soybeans

0:18:59

you can buy land

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buildings

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you can buy Bitcoin

0:19:07

or you can buy sovereign debt

0:19:09

now if you think about your treasury

0:19:11

strategy

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um the treasury strategy of an operating

0:19:16

company is we want something which is

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liquid and fungible and low risk

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so traditionally the most liquid

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fungible low-risk financial asset is

0:19:28

just the dollar

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the local currency maybe the Euro maybe

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the dollar

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and so that's the that's the obvious

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thing to do I collected uh 100 million

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dollars this month I put it in the bank

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now the problem with that is that the

0:19:45

dollar doesn't generate a yield

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and the dollar is is a depreciating uh

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debasing financial asset

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so in a world where the dollar gets

0:19:56

inflated seven percent a year if the

0:19:58

money supply of U.S currency increases

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seven percent a year and it has over the

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past hundred years

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then a billion dollars in cash is going

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to cost you 70 million a year in

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purchasing power and of course at seven

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percent a year over the course of 10

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years you'll cut your asset value in

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so it doesn't take a rocket scientist to

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figure out that that a treasury strategy

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based just on currency isn't awesome

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um it's dilutive

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the question here is what's the next

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best thing well the next best thing is

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sovereign debt

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sovereign debt is is debt issued by a

0:20:43

government so you've got the most credit

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worthy counterparty maybe the United

0:20:47

States government you don't really think

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they're going to default

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and that's the advantage of sovereign

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you might take on duration risk if you

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buy long-term bonds when the interest

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rates are low and interest rates go up

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then the bond will trade down and you

0:21:03

could get wiped out that way that

0:21:05

happened to a bunch of banks about a

0:21:06

year ago Silicon Valley Bank and the

0:21:09

like they bought long dated credit

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instruments and interest rates jump from

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zero to 500 basis points

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um and then the entry and the the debt

0:21:20

traded down 10 or 15 or 20 and when that

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happens you're insolvent technically so

0:21:26

there is duration risk but you know if

0:21:30

you buy three month T bills yielding

0:21:33

more than 500 basis points then now

0:21:35

you've got some yield

0:21:37

you're not concerned about the credit

0:21:39

default risk you're not really concerned

0:21:41

about the duration risk

0:21:43

and so what's the benefit well 500 basis

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points is better than zero basis points

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and uh on the other end what's the

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problem the problem is it's taxable

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so it's 500 basis points taxable it

0:21:57

might only be 300 or 350 basis points

0:22:01

after tax so let's say you get to 350

0:22:03

basis points after tax or three and a

0:22:06

half percent interest

0:22:07

now the question is what's the real cost

0:22:09

of capital

0:22:11

well the risk-free cost of capital for

0:22:14

an operating company is set by the

0:22:16

central bank that controls the currency

0:22:18

that it does business in

0:22:20

so if all of your revenues and all of

0:22:24

your cash flows are in the dollar

0:22:26

and if the supply of dollars increases

0:22:28

by seven percent a year

0:22:30

the risk-free interest rate or the

0:22:33

risk-free cost to Capital the hurdle

0:22:36

you've got to get to a seven percent

0:22:38

and um

0:22:41

in this particular case generating uh

0:22:44

three and a half percent interest

0:22:45

against the seven percent cost to

0:22:47

Capital means that you're burning 350

0:22:50

basis points

0:22:52

every year so that's not uh it's not

0:22:56

ideal it's dilutive and um of course

0:23:01

companies are are actually expected to

0:23:04

generate not the risk-free cost to

0:23:05

Capital they're expected to generate the

0:23:08

cost of capital plus a risk premium

0:23:11

so if you're investing in apple

0:23:14

or in any company

0:23:16

um Apple's not the best example because

0:23:18

apple is a digital Monopoly and

0:23:20

everybody knows apple is going to

0:23:22

dominate but if you just took the middle

0:23:24

company the s p index number 250 and you

0:23:29

would say

0:23:30

is there risk to that business sure

0:23:32

there's risk of that business right the

0:23:34

Chinese might embargo this the the

0:23:36

product there might be tariff there

0:23:38

might be strikes right now there are

0:23:39

strikes with all the auto companies uh

0:23:42

there might be an embargo or a trade war

0:23:44

between you know one region and another

0:23:48

it might be the European Union might

0:23:50

designate you as a monopoly and put a

0:23:52

and put some fine on you or put some tax

0:23:55

on you so no matter what company there's

0:23:59

risk competitive risk embargo risk War

0:24:02

risk tax risk labor risk Etc and for

0:24:06

that reason normally what you want is

0:24:09

not seven percent the risk-free rate you

0:24:12

want an extra four five six percent so I

0:24:16

mean probably the right number is 14 is

0:24:18

where you have to get to but but just

0:24:20

generally everybody would say at least a

0:24:22

five four to five percent risk premium

0:24:24

so 12 percent

0:24:26

so the investors are looking for you to

0:24:28

generate 12 return

0:24:31

you're getting zero percent on your cash

0:24:34

you're getting three and a half percent

0:24:36

after tax on your sovereign debt

0:24:40

so what what really happens with

0:24:43

operating companies well

0:24:45

generally most CFOs and CEOs that are

0:24:48

sophisticated they look at this and they

0:24:50

realize that if I generate a hundred

0:24:53

billion dollars of cash flow

0:24:56

and if I hold it in my treasury in

0:24:59

sovereign debt then I'm generating three

0:25:03

and a half percent after tax yield

0:25:05

instead of 12 after tax yield

0:25:08

and that means that I am short eight

0:25:11

eight and a half percent

0:25:13

and so I'm under performing

0:25:16

by call it eight and a half billion

0:25:18

dollars a year

0:25:21

this is a problem for the shareholders

0:25:22

the shareholders are going to say if if

0:25:25

Apple computer

0:25:27

accumulated a hundred billion dollars of

0:25:29

sovereign debt yielding 500 basis points

0:25:33

the shareholders would start to say

0:25:36

well this is dilutive

0:25:39

and uh and you're actually missing out

0:25:42

on an opportunity you're not generating

0:25:45

12 to 14 returns you're generating three

0:25:48

to four percent returns for me give me

0:25:51

the money back I can do better

0:25:53

okay and so

0:25:56

the result is an operating company

0:25:58

strategy or treasury strategy is

0:26:00

normally this you either dividend out

0:26:03

the cash flow you pay a dividend

0:26:06

apple pays a dividend or you buy your

0:26:09

stock back you do a buyback Apple does a

0:26:11

buyback

0:26:13

or you do Acquisitions and you take the

0:26:16

cash and you acquire another company

0:26:18

Disney for example is famous for doing

0:26:20

Acquisitions they bought Pixar they

0:26:23

bought Marvel they bought Lucas Films

0:26:26

right and that was considered to be

0:26:28

reasonable even though they paid a lot

0:26:30

for those for those assets Facebook did

0:26:33

some Acquisitions Oracle does lots of

0:26:36

Acquisitions they've been doing

0:26:38

Acquisitions for 20 years

0:26:40

so conventional wisdom for operating

0:26:43

companies is take your cash and do

0:26:46

Acquisitions issue dividends or do stock

0:26:49

share BuyBacks and of the three the

0:26:52

preferences generally either share

0:26:54

BuyBacks invest in yourself or

0:26:57

acquisitions

0:26:59

go go buy some other asset which is

0:27:02

undervalued like Microsoft right now is

0:27:04

doing this big Activision acquisition a

0:27:07

very big one

0:27:09

and why do they do those things

0:27:11

it's because the monetary policy of the

0:27:14

Central Bank forces them to get rid of

0:27:17

their cash if if the monetary inflation

0:27:20

rate was Zero

0:27:23

if there was no monetary inflation rate

0:27:25

in the Euro or the dollar

0:27:28

then you could simply put your money

0:27:31

into Cash

0:27:33

and it would get more valuable over time

0:27:35

you could probably sweep your money into

0:27:37

debt instruments and it would get more

0:27:39

valuable over time and so this hurdle

0:27:42

rate wouldn't be seven percent the

0:27:44

hurdle rate would be zero percent and it

0:27:47

would change your view of saving toward

0:27:50

invest versus investing

0:27:52

but we live in a world where there's

0:27:55

always systemic and endemic inflation

0:27:58

in uh in the weaker Nations it'll be 14

0:28:01

percent monetary inflation and the

0:28:03

stronger currencies it'll be seven

0:28:04

percent

0:28:05

and when you tap when you attack on top

0:28:09

of that the risk premium that means that

0:28:12

um a stock value an equity share cannot

0:28:16

hold its value unless you can grow the

0:28:20

cash flows per share

0:28:22

faster

0:28:23

than that inflation rate right if you

0:28:27

want to if you want to avoid losing

0:28:29

value you better grow EPS earnings per

0:28:32

share faster than seven percent and if

0:28:34

you want to actually accrete value you

0:28:36

better grow it double that or triple

0:28:39

and um

0:28:41

how many companies can do that

0:28:43

organically

0:28:45

somewhere in the name neighborhood of

0:28:48

one or two percent right a very small

0:28:50

number out of the S P 500 you'll only

0:28:54

find a handful that can grow faster than

0:28:57

that inflation rate organically

0:28:59

and so how do you grow your EPS fast if

0:29:04

you're not getting organic growth and

0:29:05

the answer is you either get rid of the

0:29:07

shares right reduce the denominator from

0:29:10

100 million shares of stock to 50

0:29:12

million shares of stock that'll double

0:29:14

your eps

0:29:17

you buy another company

0:29:20

with cash or with debt

0:29:24

and especially with cash and that's a

0:29:26

creative because you didn't issue any

0:29:28

more shares but you got more earnings

0:29:30

right now um oftentimes this is coupled

0:29:34

with one other strategy in addition to

0:29:37

dividends BuyBacks and Acquisitions and

0:29:40

sweeping my cash flows into those three

0:29:43

things the other thing that an operating

0:29:45

company does in treasury management is

0:29:47

it borrows money

0:29:48

so you're going to issue bonds you're

0:29:50

going to issue corporate debt you'll

0:29:52

issue junk bonds or you issue some other

0:29:54

form of corporate debt or you'll do

0:29:56

you'll get a term loan from A bank an

0:29:58

asset back financing

0:30:00

or you'll do an lbo right a leveraged

0:30:03

buyout and so companies like Apple

0:30:06

they pair their dividends and their

0:30:09

BuyBacks with corporate borrowing

0:30:12

you know and an Oracle would do the same

0:30:14

thing

0:30:15

and other companies would do the same

0:30:17

thing so what happens if I'm holding 10

0:30:22

billion dollars in in treasury assets

0:30:25

one billion in cash 9 billion in

0:30:27

sovereign debt

0:30:29

but I have a hundred billion in

0:30:32

corporate debt that I've issued

0:30:34

see at that point you have negative

0:30:36

treasury a negative treasury or negative

0:30:40

working capital in a way that is instead

0:30:43

of having 10 instead of having a hundred

0:30:46

billion dollars of capital

0:30:49

you actually have minus 90 billion

0:30:53

dollars of capital you borrowed 100

0:30:55

billion you're holding 10 billion that

0:30:57

you're using

0:30:58

and your minus 90 billion in capital so

0:31:02

instead of having a positive endowment

0:31:04

you have a negative endowment

0:31:07

and the logic of having a negative

0:31:09

endowment is

0:31:12

since

0:31:14

um a hundred billion dollars of of

0:31:17

assets

0:31:19

invested in sovereign debt would be have

0:31:22

a negative real yield of minus four to

0:31:27

ten percent a year

0:31:29

then if I borrow 100 billion it is a

0:31:32

positive real yield a plus four to ten

0:31:34

percent a year so by being the borrower

0:31:38

I'm actually getting cheap Capital if my

0:31:42

stock is uh has as appreciating at a

0:31:45

rate of 14 a year

0:31:47

then I might as well borrow a hundred

0:31:49

billion dollars and pay four percent

0:31:51

interest

0:31:53

and then buy back a hundred billion

0:31:55

worth of my stock which is 14 yield and

0:31:59

then I'm scraping 10 percent yield off

0:32:01

of that right I mean the 14 versus the

0:32:03

four and

0:32:05

um I found a way to actually accrete 10

0:32:08

billion dollars of value a year to my

0:32:10

shareholders by taking on Leverage

0:32:15

so the status quo for operating

0:32:17

companies is I don't want an endowment I

0:32:20

want a negative endowment right I don't

0:32:23

want to I don't want to retain capital

0:32:26

I want to I want to distribute Capital

0:32:29

if I can't reinvest it I have to give it

0:32:32

I have to de-capitalize and give it back

0:32:35

the consequence of this is a bunch of

0:32:38

Highly indebted operating companies

0:32:40

everywhere in the world even why would a

0:32:43

company like apple which is the

0:32:44

healthiest company in the world why does

0:32:46

it have so much debt

0:32:47

why would you in debt a healthy company

0:32:50

because if they don't and if they don't

0:32:53

take on the debt it's diluted to the

0:32:56

shares it's bad for the equity

0:32:58

well why is it that you have to actually

0:33:01

and decapitalize the company

0:33:04

and take on negative capital or take on

0:33:07

huge amounts of debt in order to avoid

0:33:09

tanking your stock

0:33:11

and that's because of the monetary

0:33:12

policy of the currency

0:33:14

so when the more inflationary the

0:33:18

environment the more important it is to

0:33:20

be indebted if you were in an

0:33:23

environment like Argentina where you had

0:33:25

hyperinflation the only way you stay

0:33:27

wealthy is to take on a huge loan

0:33:30

in pesos when the peso is 20 to the

0:33:33

dollar and when the peso ends up 800 to

0:33:36

the dollar

0:33:37

right you pay back the loan in in

0:33:41

massively devalued pesos right so you

0:33:45

get rich by getting in debt

0:33:47

so most companies are pretty intelligent

0:33:50

the CFOs are intelligent and they figure

0:33:53

this out

0:33:55

but what's the problem

0:33:56

the problem is

0:33:58

a they de-capitalize by giving all the

0:34:01

money back so they don't have any

0:34:02

Capital so if they run into a crisis

0:34:05

like uh covid uh where the world shuts

0:34:08

down you know the the cruise lines got

0:34:11

shut down for a year the hotels got shut

0:34:13

down for a year when you run into a

0:34:15

crisis you don't have any capital and So

0:34:17

you you're under capitalized and you may

0:34:19

go bankrupt that's the first problem

0:34:22

the second problem is

0:34:24

if you compound it with taking on debt

0:34:27

even if you don't run into a crisis if

0:34:29

if you simply have a bad quarter where

0:34:31

your cash flows are 20 less than they

0:34:34

were the previous quarter you're still

0:34:36

making a ton of money but you trip all

0:34:38

your debt covenants and the debt comes

0:34:39

due and you're insolvent

0:34:42

so you know it's you know it's it that's

0:34:46

that's another massive risk you're

0:34:48

putting a totally healthy company at

0:34:50

risk by loading it up with a ton of debt

0:34:53

so that you might destroy it even though

0:34:55

you had your revenues could be off two

0:34:58

percent from expectation and you could

0:35:00

bankrupt the company

0:35:02

Marvel Comics for example was bankrupted

0:35:05

because it carried too much debt even

0:35:07

though you know people still love the

0:35:09

comics and so so that's the second

0:35:11

problem

0:35:12

the third problem is

0:35:15

you're encouraged to do all these

0:35:17

dilutive Acquisitions and in my

0:35:20

experience in 30 years in business or 30

0:35:22

years of running a public company all of

0:35:25

my competitors were destroyed or failed

0:35:27

because they did bad acquisitions the

0:35:30

number one reason for a software

0:35:31

companies to fail is they did bad

0:35:34

Acquisitions they bought companies for

0:35:36

too much that weren't worth that much

0:35:38

because they were desperate

0:35:41

to buy something to support their own

0:35:44

stock and so it you know if I tell you

0:35:47

you know go out and buy something

0:35:50

expensive by the end of the day you've

0:35:52

got till five o'clock and otherwise you

0:35:53

lose all the money

0:35:55

you know you know you're running around

0:35:57

and you walk into a Persian rug shop and

0:35:59

you and you try to buy the Persian rug

0:36:01

and the guy wants eighty thousand

0:36:02

dollars for it you know it's worth four

0:36:04

thousand dollars and if you can wait for

0:36:05

three days you'll get it for four

0:36:07

thousand but you're bidding against

0:36:08

yourself in a hurry so you pay 42 000

0:36:11

for it

0:36:12

and you tell yourself it was a good deal

0:36:14

because you were going to lose the 42

0:36:16

000 anyway

0:36:18

so the existing uh rules

0:36:21

they force everyone to make irrational

0:36:25

decisions take on debt they shouldn't

0:36:27

take on by companies they shouldn't buy

0:36:30

uh issued dividends they shouldn't issue

0:36:32

and buy back shares they shouldn't buy

0:36:34

back and uh

0:36:37

the significance the significance of

0:36:39

Bitcoin

0:36:41

is uh is

0:36:44

in two ways first of all

0:36:47

CFOs and CEOs starting in 2024 will now

0:36:51

have the option to buy Bitcoin instead

0:36:53

of buying treasury bonds

0:36:55

so now you can buy a commodity that's

0:36:58

liquid and fungible on your balance

0:37:00

sheet

0:37:01

and and that commodity is a scarcity and

0:37:06

because it's a scarcity

0:37:07

that means you can expect it to accrete

0:37:10

in value more than seven percent

0:37:12

probably fourteen percent a year over

0:37:14

the long term even after

0:37:17

I think after we've gotten through the

0:37:18

bull run and after the early adoption

0:37:21

boost which will cause Bitcoin to

0:37:22

appreciate it rates faster than 14 in

0:37:26

the long term over the course of a

0:37:28

hundred years starting a decade or two

0:37:30

decades from now you could expect it to

0:37:33

appreciate it 14 a year if the money

0:37:35

supply or the currency Supply is

0:37:37

appreciating at seven percent a year or

0:37:39

are expanding at seven percent a year so

0:37:42

you've got an asset which will

0:37:44

appreciate in price versus Fiat

0:37:47

and of course bonds don't right bonds

0:37:50

never appreciated in price for the most

0:37:52

part against Fiat you're you're buying

0:37:54

them at par

0:37:55

in in order to get the taxable yield

0:37:59

so that's that's a big deal right

0:38:03

it's not comparable to buying a

0:38:06

portfolio of soybeans or silver or gold

0:38:09

or oil or natural gas because those are

0:38:13

true Commodities and the problem with

0:38:15

commodities

0:38:16

and Bitcoin doesn't have this problem

0:38:18

this is why people have to have to we

0:38:20

should really call it a scarcity rather

0:38:22

than a commodity the problem with

0:38:23

commodities is there's a dysfunctional

0:38:26

systemic

0:38:29

endemic inflation built into the system

0:38:33

not only

0:38:36

is uh is it possible for someone to

0:38:39

create more oil

0:38:40

it is a certain thing that when the

0:38:42

price of oil triples they will create a

0:38:45

lot more oil and no one is concerned

0:38:47

about keeping the supply of oil in check

0:38:50

over the long term there's this

0:38:53

dysfunctional competition

0:38:55

um you can try to create a cartel like

0:38:57

OPEC but uh people that aren't in the

0:39:00

OPEC like the frackers in Texas they're

0:39:02

not in OPEC and they're going to Frack

0:39:05

oil and they're going to bust that

0:39:06

cartel and and all of these Commodities

0:39:09

find their cartels broken and

0:39:12

the goal miners want to produce more

0:39:14

gold the silver people want to produce

0:39:16

more silver soybeans want to produce

0:39:17

more soybeans so Commodities aren't

0:39:20

scarce

0:39:22

and and I want to distinguish between

0:39:24

that kind of uh ungoverned inflation or

0:39:28

dysfunctional inflation versus the

0:39:30

governed inflation of equities

0:39:33

you know Apple computer or any any

0:39:36

company in the S P 500 can also issue

0:39:39

more stock

0:39:40

and if if you buy infinite amounts of

0:39:44

the s p index you'll get a lot more

0:39:45

stocks they will issue more stocks

0:39:48

during you know during the height of the

0:39:51

market boom in

0:39:53

2021 when you had GameStop and you had

0:39:56

all the meme stocks you saw all these

0:39:59

people printing a lot of equity and

0:40:01

selling it to the market

0:40:03

and that's uh and that's the danger of

0:40:06

those assets but at the end of the day

0:40:08

Tim Cook doesn't want to print infinite

0:40:11

Apple stock I mean Tim Cook understands

0:40:14

and his board of directors understand

0:40:15

that if they want to maintain The

0:40:17

credibility of the corporation they have

0:40:19

to maintain some control over the amount

0:40:23

of shares they issue and the same is

0:40:25

true at Microsoft and the same is true

0:40:27

at Google they may print more Equity but

0:40:30

it won't be ungoverned and dysfunctional

0:40:33

but imagine there were a hundred

0:40:35

companies called Apple

0:40:37

and they could all print Apple stock

0:40:40

and people want Apple stock so maybe Tim

0:40:43

Cook wouldn't but the Apple competitor

0:40:45

number four in Timbuktu they could and

0:40:49

they could sell Apple stock

0:40:51

well in that case they're all going to

0:40:53

print as much as they can to drive the

0:40:55

price down because they're ungoverned

0:40:58

and and in fact they have an incentive

0:41:01

to sell the stock and so that's what

0:41:04

it's like in the Commodities business

0:41:05

somebody somewhere has an incentive to

0:41:08

drive the price of that commodity down

0:41:10

and they will sell as much as they can

0:41:12

get their hands on and so that being the

0:41:16

there's never been a commodity like

0:41:19

Bitcoin that was scarce

0:41:22

the closest thing

0:41:24

to something like Bitcoin would be

0:41:28

um acreage in Palm Beach

0:41:31

or acreage in Miami Beach not not the

0:41:34

square footage but rather the underlying

0:41:36

dirt because there's only so many linear

0:41:39

feet of beachfront property in Palm

0:41:42

Beach for the last 100 years and no

0:41:45

amount of money Printing and no amount

0:41:47

of capital and no amount of technology

0:41:49

and no amount of manufacturing know-how

0:41:53

creates more beachfront property in Palm

0:41:55

Beach

0:41:56

so when you look at that scarce

0:41:59

desirable property that you can't create

0:42:00

more of you can see that actually does

0:42:03

go up in value that's gone up by a

0:42:05

factor of a thousand in the last hundred

0:42:07

years

0:42:08

thousand X and that appreciates at the

0:42:11

rate that the money expands

0:42:13

but the problem is

0:42:15

it's not a treasury asset I can't buy

0:42:18

and sell square feet of Palm Beach every

0:42:21

day in the market I can't liquidate It

0:42:24

On Demand so the kind of property that I

0:42:27

would want to hold I can't hold as the

0:42:30

CFO of a publicly traded company the

0:42:33

kind of stuff I can hold

0:42:35

sovereign debt it isn't scarce and it's

0:42:38

a currency derivative

0:42:39

and so Bitcoin is this new thing it is a

0:42:44

digital scarcity that's liquid that's

0:42:47

fungible that gets commodity treatment

0:42:50

that I can hold on a balance sheet as a

0:42:53

treasury asset and while the currency is

0:42:57

not generating a yield and the bonds

0:43:00

aren't trading up in asset value and

0:43:02

they're generating taxable yield and

0:43:04

with a negative real yield

0:43:06

Bitcoin will appreciate in price

0:43:10

tax deferred

0:43:12

and so what you've got is that is you

0:43:16

have the opportunity of your Apple

0:43:18

computer

0:43:22

to buy a hundred billion dollars worth

0:43:22

of an asset which will appreciate

0:43:24

fifteen to twenty percent a year with no

0:43:27

tax load

0:43:28

so you're picking up a 20 a 20 billion

0:43:31

dollar shareholder gain

0:43:33

as an investment income

0:43:36

right with a very favorable tax

0:43:38

treatment

0:43:39

and what's the second best idea

0:43:43

well I mean the second best idea is

0:43:47

I allocate 10 of my treasury to the s p

0:43:51

index

0:43:53

and I don't get the Fourteen percent

0:43:55

gain I get a seven percent gain

0:43:58

and I can't ever have more than a small

0:44:00

amount

0:44:01

because otherwise I'll trip those SEC

0:44:04

Covenants

0:44:06

but that second best idea isn't all that

0:44:08

compelling because the Institutional

0:44:10

Investor looks at that and says you

0:44:12

could have just given me the money and I

0:44:14

could have put it in the s p index

0:44:16

you know so you're not really doing

0:44:18

anything I can't do

0:44:20

and uh and you're not really getting

0:44:22

that much of a yield you're not using

0:44:24

any strategic advantage that you have

0:44:28

uh in order to generate uh something in

0:44:31

excess of the s p return

0:44:36

fair value accounting opened the door

0:44:39

for Bitcoin to serve as a treasury asset

0:44:43

for an operating company

0:44:47

the first order

0:44:49

action of that would be

0:44:52

I'm a CFO and I start to allocate some

0:44:55

of my Capital from treasury assets to

0:44:58

bitcoin

0:45:00

maybe instead of 90 treasuries ten

0:45:03

percent cash I go 10 Bitcoin 80 treasury

0:45:07

10 cash

0:45:09

and then of course maybe then 20 Bitcoin

0:45:11

70 treasuries Etc so we start to see a

0:45:15

creeping up of allocation from

0:45:17

treasuries uh to uh to bitcoin

0:45:22

but the second order effect which is a

0:45:24

much more profound effect

0:45:26

is to basically turn the entire theory

0:45:30

of Treasury Management on its head

0:45:34

instead of dispersing all my cash flows

0:45:38

to my investors via BuyBacks

0:45:41

instead of buying my my stock back I buy

0:45:45

Bitcoin instead of doing Acquisitions of

0:45:49

other operating companies I do an

0:45:51

acquisition of Bitcoin instead of

0:45:54

dividending out my cash flows which

0:45:57

generates a taxable event

0:45:59

for my investors I actually buy Bitcoin

0:46:02

which is tax deferred asset appreciation

0:46:06

for my investors and I'm doing something

0:46:09

for them which is beneficial to them

0:46:12

because they can't necessarily do that

0:46:14

themselves

0:46:16

right and so that's a benefit to them

0:46:19

I'm strengthening my core business

0:46:22

because I'm putting a strong Capital

0:46:24

Foundation underneath it so instead of

0:46:27

people worrying that I might get

0:46:29

liquidated or I might uh I might trip a

0:46:32

debt Covenant I'm now deemed to be an

0:46:35

extremely well capitalized company with

0:46:38

a longer a longer duration longer time

0:46:41

Horizon and I can invest the earnings

0:46:45

from that balance sheet back into the

0:46:48

core business or I can use them for

0:46:51

strategic Acquisitions in the future or

0:46:53

the like

0:46:56

I think I think we're at a a very

0:47:01

important inflection point

0:47:02

where it was

0:47:05

for 50 years

0:47:07

and since 1971

0:47:10

we've been in an inflationary

0:47:11

environment and so from 1971 to 2024

0:47:16

your treasury strategy is to

0:47:18

decapitalize generate a negative a

0:47:22

negative treasury right negative capital

0:47:26

in order to debt finance and then just

0:47:29

do BuyBacks and Acquisitions and that

0:47:33

was a it's an environment that creates

0:47:35

fragile companies

0:47:37

that are highly likely to fail

0:47:40

doing bad deals

0:47:42

right uh with a short life expectancy

0:47:46

and uh did we see that yeah absolutely

0:47:48

every single competitor of microstrategy

0:47:51

went out of business in 20 years

0:47:53

everyone out of 100 a hundred public

0:47:55

companies every one of them failed

0:47:57

except for us because of their treasury

0:48:00

strategy and if you look at the uh the

0:48:03

life expectancy of public publicly

0:48:05

traded companies and most corporations

0:48:07

has been very short

0:48:09

and it's been very short

0:48:12

because they don't have the ability to

0:48:15

accumulate an endowment

0:48:17

and if you consider if you compare them

0:48:19

to the uh life expectancies or the

0:48:22

duration of universities like Harvard or

0:48:25

Yale or Stanford or of other

0:48:28

institutions those other institutions

0:48:31

have lived a long time because they have

0:48:33

endowments

0:48:34

so Harvard if you wanted to run Harvard

0:48:38

like you run an operating company here's

0:48:40

what you would do you would say

0:48:42

you have to basically disperse all of

0:48:44

your endowment back to the graduates

0:48:48

and then you have to borrow a hundred

0:48:51

billion dollars

0:48:52

and pay four percent interest and then

0:48:55

you have to grow your student Base by 20

0:48:57

a year every year

0:49:00

and you have to raise the prices by 15 a

0:49:04

year every year so imagine Harvard you

0:49:07

know growing their student population by

0:49:09

15 to 20 percent a year raising their

0:49:10

prices perennially borrowing as much

0:49:12

money as they could but no endowment

0:49:15

and then would they still be here

0:49:18

no yeah absolutely not so when you put

0:49:21

it like that it's pretty obvious why

0:49:24

corporations struggle

0:49:26

and that it isn't good for society it's

0:49:29

it's bad for the civilization because

0:49:31

destroying one company after the other

0:49:34

means you're putting all these people

0:49:35

out of work you're destroying capital

0:49:38

you're you're idling headquarters your

0:49:40

idling factories right how did we hollow

0:49:43

out all the manufacturing in the United

0:49:45

States

0:49:46

we destroy the manufacturers we destroy

0:49:49

the jobs you know it's bad for labor

0:49:52

it's bad for the country it's bad for

0:49:55

everywhere the only people that benefit

0:49:57

are the financial Engineers right that

0:50:00

know how to take advantage of this or

0:50:01

the politicians but um

0:50:03

in 2024 there's a new regime it's now

0:50:06

possible for corporations to create

0:50:09

endowments

0:50:11

that are compliant with uh corporate law

0:50:14

and and rules of an operating company

0:50:17

and that can create a positive cycle

0:50:20

the more Capital you keep the more

0:50:23

assets you have

0:50:25

um the higher your investment Returns

0:50:27

the the larger your balance sheet

0:50:31

the more stable the company

0:50:33

the the more you can invest the better

0:50:35

your product get the better Services you

0:50:37

get Etc

0:50:39

microstrategy for example is a is a

0:50:42

little example in a microcosm of that we

0:50:45

had a um a 666 million dollar Enterprise

0:50:50

value 36 months ago

0:50:53

and we had 500 million dollars in cash

0:50:58

that was generating zero percent

0:50:59

interest a liability

0:51:02

and um and then we had maybe a stock

0:51:05

that had about a 1.2 billion dollar

0:51:08

market cap so the company was valued and

0:51:10

we had maybe revenues of 500 million

0:51:13

we're kind of valued at one times

0:51:15

Revenue

0:51:16

or or the Enterprise Value Plus the cash

0:51:20

and we could expect to get nothing from

0:51:25

our Treasury and if there's inflation of

0:51:28

40 percent then that means the 500

0:51:31

million dollars would be worth 300

0:51:33

million dollars in short order so we're

0:51:35

just looking at destroying our

0:51:36

treasury's value and getting no lift

0:51:40

from the operating business so what we

0:51:42

did was we inverted the company and we

0:51:45

first invested half of the treasury in

0:51:48

Bitcoin

0:51:49

then we invested the rest of the

0:51:52

treasury in Bitcoin after a Dutch

0:51:53

auction and then we uh then we took on

0:51:56

2.2 billion dollars of debt in three

0:51:58

different transactions

0:52:01

borrowing money at one and a half

0:52:02

percent interest and bought Bitcoin and

0:52:05

then we issued about the same amount or

0:52:07

not quite that much but billion to two

0:52:10

billion dollars in equity and we bought

0:52:12

Bitcoin and so today the Enterprise

0:52:15

value of the company is 10x more than

0:52:17

10x it's 7 to 8 billion dollars

0:52:20

instead of 600 million

0:52:22

and the equity value of the company is

0:52:26

and the stock has outperformed Bitcoin

0:52:29

and outperformed the s p so we made a

0:52:32

lot of money for our shareholders we

0:52:34

outstripped all our competitors in big

0:52:37

Tech all of our competitors in

0:52:38

Enterprise software

0:52:40

and we have more than four billion

0:52:43

dollars of Bitcoin on the balance sheet

0:52:45

so if if Bitcoin hits that long-term uh

0:52:50

appreciation of say 15 percent then that

0:52:53

means the company generates 600 million

0:52:55

dollars a year of investment income

0:52:58

which is more than the revenue of the

0:52:59

company

0:53:00

before we started this exercise

0:53:03

and that compounds

0:53:06

tax-free

0:53:07

right tax deferred so you're looking at

0:53:10

at uh 600 million and 700 million and

0:53:14

800 million than a billion than one

0:53:16

billion two you see so

0:53:19

you've actually got a

0:53:21

sustainable strategy

0:53:23

to ride the wave of inflation

0:53:27

while strengthening the endowment or the

0:53:29

capital structure of the company

0:53:31

while supporting the operating mission

0:53:34

of the company

0:53:35

which is again not unlike a Harvard

0:53:39

University or or any other Ivy League

0:53:42

school with a properly managed endowment

0:53:46

maybe a bit better because Bitcoin is a

0:53:49

much better asset than those endowments

0:53:52

have right now

0:53:54

but you can see there a model for a

0:53:57

different treasury strategy

0:54:00

I I would say you could I'll boil this

0:54:03

down and summarize which is

0:54:06

the law of the land and regulations

0:54:17

is is uh detrimental to operating

0:54:17

companies operating companies are not

0:54:19

allowed to have an endowment or a

0:54:20

balance sheet they are discouraged from

0:54:23

having positive Capital they're

0:54:25

encouraged to run the business on

0:54:27

negative capital

0:54:29

uh liabilities not assets

0:54:33

endowments non-profits religious

0:54:37

organizations churches

0:54:39

and institutions are able to run on uh

0:54:44

positive capital

0:54:46

so those entities are beneficiaries of

0:54:50

monetary inflation to the extent that

0:54:52

they invest in scarce desirable assets

0:54:54

and then operating companies are just

0:54:58

like workers laborers

0:55:00

right they are discriminated against

0:55:02

they are they are the victims of

0:55:06

monetary inflation

0:55:08

um High monetary inflation is a road to

0:55:11

serfdom for the worker

0:55:13

and it's a road to serf them for the

0:55:15

operating company and the reason that we

0:55:18

have uh Capital markets that are

0:55:21

attending toward monopolies

0:55:23

and the big just keep getting bigger

0:55:25

right big Tech big Pharma big banking

0:55:29

big utilities big government big

0:55:32

entertainment the reason they keep

0:55:35

getting bigger is the monetary policy

0:55:38

destroys anybody's ability to accumulate

0:55:41

capital

0:55:43

or lever the capital and everyone is

0:55:47

encouraged to engage in irrational

0:55:51

short-sighted Behavior

0:55:54

right you've got a nice company here's

0:55:57

my here's my advice for you

0:55:59

give away all your profit

0:56:02

go buy companies that aren't as good as

0:56:04

yours as fast as you can and overpay for

0:56:08

and borrow as much money as you can at

0:56:11

whatever interest rate you have to pay

0:56:14

and if and uh and then keep buying back

0:56:18

the stock of the company

0:56:21

with the cash flow so that you have no

0:56:24

you have only liabilities

0:56:27

and you're in a hurry and you have to

0:56:28

buy another bad company and then buy a

0:56:31

company twice as big as that that's even

0:56:32

worse and keep buying bad companies

0:56:35

that are in trouble

0:56:37

at a at too high a price until

0:56:40

eventually you blow up right that's

0:56:43

conventional treasury strategy

0:56:46

and you might say well

0:56:48

if that's true if it's that irrational

0:56:50

then shouldn't I expect to see the

0:56:52

majority of companies failing and going

0:56:54

out of business and I'm like yeah and

0:56:56

yeah it is look at them

0:57:00

they are if you actually study a hundred

0:57:02

thousand companies created in the past

0:57:04

30 years and ask how many are still here

0:57:06

and how did they fail you'll find they

0:57:08

all sold out they all that many of them

0:57:11

did a succession of Acquisitions and

0:57:13

then failed are they all sold out or

0:57:15

they were rendered insolvent or they

0:57:18

couldn't pay back their debt and

0:57:20

eventually they throw in the towel and

0:57:22

then who wins

0:57:23

the digital monopolies win right

0:57:26

John D Rockefeller rolled up all the

0:57:28

other oil companies and you know the big

0:57:31

tech companies will just roll up every

0:57:33

other smaller company

0:57:34

and in the meantime investors will do

0:57:37

these lbos to try to squeeze something

0:57:40

out of the companies and enter them

0:57:42

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off we talked we got into this

0:58:14

conversation uh honestly quite honestly

0:58:17

thinking that we were going to compare

0:58:20

Bitcoin to treasury Securities and maybe

0:58:24

the risks of each and the investment

0:58:26

properties but instead the direction

0:58:28

that you're going here it's much more

0:58:31

societal in nature what you're actually

0:58:33

saying is that the in endemic and

0:58:36

systemic inflation completely distorts

0:58:39

the operating company's motives from

0:58:43

being an entity that can create an

0:58:47

endowment and accumulate Capital over a

0:58:50

long time to an entity that is forced to

0:58:53

get rid of the cash as fast as it can

0:58:56

and engaging in mergers and Acquisitions

0:59:00

in which actually just creates these

0:59:03

large monopolies and so we're talking

0:59:05

about something much more societal in

0:59:08

nature than just comparing the risks of

0:59:11

two different asset classes so talk a

0:59:13

little bit more about just societally

0:59:16

what you see is it this accounting new

0:59:19

fair value accounting rule that is going

0:59:22

to unleash some maybe behavioral changes

0:59:24

in the society or is it already underway

0:59:27

because we have Bitcoin talk to us about

0:59:31

well you know we use the phrase Bitcoin

0:59:35

fixes this

0:59:36

right Bitcoin is sound money and and

0:59:39

Bitcoin is thermodynamically sound

0:59:44

financial asset and a thermodynamically

0:59:47

sound

0:59:50

strategy so

0:59:53

people haven't had

0:59:55

a thermodynamically sound saving

0:59:59

strategy

1:00:00

up until now right the the closest thing

1:00:04

to sound money

1:00:06

in the current world before Bitcoin

1:00:09

is uh is scarce desirable real estate

1:00:14

that's the closest thing

1:00:16

and uh and most wealthy uh most wealthy

1:00:20

families most wealthy investors I run

1:00:23

they um

1:00:25

they own real estate

1:00:27

and they own real estate in London and

1:00:29

Paris in New York and la and and

1:00:33

middle of Miami places that people want

1:00:35

to be

1:00:36

and the strategy for accumulating wealth

1:00:41

is leverage long

1:00:44

property

1:00:46

right if you really want to get rich if

1:00:48

you want to get rich then you have to

1:00:50

borrow a lot of money

1:00:52

buy something highly desirable hold it

1:00:55

for a long period of time wait for the

1:00:58

monetary inflation to drive up the value

1:00:59

of it

1:01:01

right you bought a billion dollars worth

1:01:03

of real estate in London you paid three

1:01:06

percent interest it traded up seven or

1:01:08

eight percent a year

1:01:10

and you're generating four percent yield

1:01:13

on a billion dollars every year for ten

1:01:15

years and all of a sudden you've just

1:01:17

made yourself hundreds and hundreds of

1:01:19

millions of dollars right

1:01:22

that has been uh the only strategy I

1:01:25

think um Bitcoin is is now emerging

1:01:30

as something Superior to that Bitcoin

1:01:33

allows you to take on

1:01:36

a strategy of acquiring scarce desirable

1:01:39

property but now you can acquire it and

1:01:42

and um units of twenty dollars at a time

1:01:46

or 200 at a time and so it's in

1:01:50

egalitarian

1:01:52

strategy uh for wealth creation or

1:01:56

wealth preservation

1:01:58

the the big Catalyst here

1:02:01

I mean the first one was you know

1:02:04

satoshi's creation of Bitcoin right put

1:02:07

a big star on on the map nearly 15 years

1:02:10

ago coming up in a few weeks is the

1:02:14

anniversary of the white paper

1:02:17

the second big milestone was the end of

1:02:20

the block size Wars when uh Bitcoin was

1:02:24

established you know as this this

1:02:28

um censorship resistant Network that's

1:02:31

resistant to the meddling of corporate

1:02:34

interests and others and uh and we

1:02:37

sorted out what's the dominant chain

1:02:40

and and a lot of

1:02:42

a lot of theory

1:02:44

and a lot of values got cemented in the

1:02:49

block size Wars

1:02:51

uh I think the third Milestone is is the

1:02:55

entrance of is actually covid covid and

1:02:59

the entrance of Corporations right covid

1:03:02

catalyzed corporations to look at

1:03:04

Bitcoin so without covid microstrategy

1:03:07

doesn't do Bitcoin and without

1:03:09

microstrategy doing Bitcoin probably the

1:03:11

next set of companies don't do it you

1:03:13

don't get two dozen Bitcoin holders and

1:03:15

then you don't get the accountants

1:03:17

interested that you don't get fair value

1:03:18

accounting and you don't get the the

1:03:21

clamor for the ETFs and the spot ETFs

1:03:25

so so that was the next Milestone then

1:03:28

after that the uh the spot ETF will be

1:03:31

the next really big milestone because

1:03:33

it'll be

1:03:34

A high bandwidth institutional on-ramp

1:03:37

for tens of billions or hundreds of

1:03:39

billions of dollars of capital and um

1:03:42

and so that's really key

1:03:46

so and then after that

1:03:49

the Embrace of the traditional banking

1:03:51

networks right the Deutsche Banks the

1:03:54

santanders other Banks starting to

1:03:56

custody Bitcoin

1:03:59

um and provide banking services

1:04:03

so all of those things coming together

1:04:06

they actually deliver a digital scarcity

1:04:10

as a fungible liquid asset to all

1:04:13

classes of investors

1:04:17

if we consider them the retail investors

1:04:19

will benefit they they've been engaged

1:04:22

but there'll be an order of magnitude

1:04:24

increase in retail participation with

1:04:28

spot ETFs because because uh just about

1:04:31

every working person has a 401k that's

1:04:34

wired through conventional Wall Street

1:04:37

money managers and so you'll start to

1:04:39

see the flow of those kind of funds

1:04:42

enabled by the fidelities and the black

1:04:44

rocks of the world

1:04:46

and that'll that will increase retail

1:04:49

participation by an order of magnitude

1:04:52

institutional participation will will

1:04:55

also increase by orders of magnitude

1:04:57

because the spot ETF

1:05:00

they really can't they can't engage in

1:05:03

the current structure because

1:05:06

all the institutional money managers

1:05:10

have accounting systems compliance

1:05:13

system control systems Risk Management

1:05:15

Systems

1:05:18

that are all trading systems and

1:05:20

collateral systems that have all been

1:05:22

built over 30 years

1:05:24

and in that system they can punch a

1:05:27

button and buy a million dollars of

1:05:29

Apple stock or a million dollars of a

1:05:31

gold ETF or a million dollars worth of

1:05:33

the s p index or a million dollars in

1:05:36

bonds and they can just do it instantly

1:05:38

and everything is accounted for and if

1:05:41

they make money they get compensated and

1:05:44

if they lose money right they they get

1:05:47

criticized and at the end of the year

1:05:49

their taxes get paid that way and if

1:05:51

they want to buy a hundred million

1:05:53

dollars their Bank like JP Morgan fronts

1:05:55

them the money

1:05:56

you know and and so that entire system

1:06:00

which is which is a combination of

1:06:03

technical functionality and accounting

1:06:06

functionality and risk management

1:06:07

functionality and financing

1:06:09

functionality all of that gets in

1:06:11

activated by the ETFs

1:06:15

so they will be able to participate and

1:06:24

we will start to see an evolution in

1:06:24

portfolio thinking it's pretty clear

1:06:26

that the 60 40 portfolio is is uh uh a

1:06:31

thing of the 20th century and people are

1:06:34

starting to question it and so now I

1:06:36

think you'll start to see portfolio

1:06:37

models that might vary if if it becomes

1:06:41

when there's digital gold and people say

1:06:44

if you like gold buy 50 real gold 50

1:06:47

Bitcoin

1:06:49

right your portfolio models break

1:06:51

and lots of capital flows into Bitcoin

1:06:54

when people say the 60 40 portfolio only

1:06:57

made sense when there were only bonds

1:06:59

and stocks but now there's stocks bonds

1:07:01

and Bitcoin now maybe it's 60 2020 or it

1:07:06

starts to be 50

1:07:08

30 20 or something and so those models

1:07:12

start to change and the asset

1:07:14

allocations will change with them and uh

1:07:17

and that'll have an impact and then of

1:07:20

course

1:07:21

for um for operating companies we just

1:07:24

talked about it a lot now it's possible

1:07:26

to be a treasury asset and that means

1:07:29

that maybe

1:07:30

maybe instead of operating companies

1:07:32

remitting 95 percent of their cash flows

1:07:35

back to their investors

1:07:37

what if they actually kept half their

1:07:39

cash flows

1:07:41

right so you might see a huge amount of

1:07:43

capital moved from institutional

1:07:44

investors and endowments

1:07:47

back to the operating companies

1:07:50

right there's no reason why Apple might

1:07:52

at some point end up with hundreds of

1:07:54

billions or trillions of dollars of

1:07:56

assets on its balance sheet instead of

1:07:59

no net assets on its balance sheet

1:08:02

there'll be lots of interesting debates

1:08:04

over it but the point is now it's not

1:08:06

even possible and in the future it will

1:08:08

be possible

1:08:10

um I think that uh

1:08:12

that Bitcoin will creep into Sovereign

1:08:15

balance sheets both Sovereign wealth

1:08:17

funds as well as Sovereign Nations it'll

1:08:20

start with the smaller ones that are

1:08:21

more Innovative as a small percentage I

1:08:24

know over time it will grow

1:08:26

it's it's not going to replace

1:08:29

the currency that's used as currency or

1:08:32

the sovereign debt used as the lowest

1:08:36

risk asset it's going to replace

1:08:40

real estate and equity and property and

1:08:44

all the other things that people buy

1:08:47

it's like you know if if you're the

1:08:49

Sovereign wealth front of Norway and

1:08:51

you're comfortable holding a hundred

1:08:52

billion dollars of s p equities

1:08:56

you know you could allocate half of that

1:08:57

to bitcoin instead

1:08:59

and you might very well convince

1:09:01

yourself that that's diversification and

1:09:03

that's less risky

1:09:05

so Bitcoin does serve it serves this uh

1:09:09

this new emerging role right which is as

1:09:12

a diversifier

1:09:14

and I think that at this point it's

1:09:17

probably worthwhile for us to come back

1:09:19

to how does Bitcoin compare to to uh

1:09:22

sovereign debt as an investment asset

1:09:25

and if we think about that

1:09:31

sovereign debt is uh low risk money it's

1:09:36

a monetary investment I'm I've got a

1:09:39

hundred million dollars in cash flow and

1:09:42

I have to I have to hold it somehow so

1:09:44

I've decided I'll invest 90 million of

1:09:46

it in treasury bills with a duration

1:09:49

from three months to 12 months

1:09:53

low duration risk low credit risk I'm

1:09:56

getting some yield I'm holding it as a

1:09:58

currency a currency substitute of sort

1:10:03

foreign

1:10:06

what's the negative the positive and how

1:10:09

do I compare it to bitcoin well

1:10:12

I mean Bitcoin is a non-sovereign store

1:10:15

of value Bearer asset that does not

1:10:18

generate yield

1:10:19

treasuries are a sovereign

1:10:24

asset sort of a bearer asset for the

1:10:27

most people think of it that way

1:10:29

although it's not quite but it has

1:10:31

counterparty risk

1:10:33

in uh in a couple of ways it has

1:10:36

counterparty risk over the long term

1:10:38

because there's inflation of the unit

1:10:40

it's currency derivative

1:10:42

it it doesn't have counterparty risk if

1:10:45

it's the reserve currency of the world

1:10:47

but every other piece of sovereign debt

1:10:50

has counterparty risk because

1:10:52

Argentine dead instruments get defaulted

1:10:55

on Nigeria might default on their debt

1:10:57

so most Nations other than than

1:11:03

the United States could default on their

1:11:06

and they could do a soft default or they

1:11:09

or they always have this option of

1:11:12

a a subtle default which is I'm just

1:11:16

going to print twice as much of this

1:11:19

stuff

1:11:21

and I'll pay you off in the currency

1:11:23

unit but I'll devalue the currency unit

1:11:25

so so I'll devalue my currency to pay

1:11:29

you off and and maybe I'll devalue in

1:11:31

the near term or maybe I'll devalue you

1:11:34

like if I basically issue a bunch of

1:11:36

10-year Bonds in the euro

1:11:39

the cut you know and in 10 years I told

1:11:42

you that there's going to be 10 times as

1:11:43

many euros in circulation well then you

1:11:46

don't want to be holding the 30-year

1:11:48

Euro bonds

1:11:50

you might not be devalued in the next 12

1:11:52

months but you're getting devalued in 10

1:11:54

to 20 years and so the 30-year Euro

1:11:56

bonds are going to mature worthless

1:12:00

right so so

1:12:02

vereign debt has a lot of that kind of

1:12:05

duration counterparty risk

1:12:08

um and with every company country every

1:12:11

every kind of sovereign debt has

1:12:13

duration counterparty risk because they

1:12:15

can change their monetary policy and

1:12:18

then all of the weaker countries the

1:12:21

second third tier countries have credit

1:12:23

risk as counterparty risk

1:12:26

and even if you have

1:12:29

um even if you have you know no duration

1:12:32

if you have 90-day uh

1:12:35

sovereign debt from the United States

1:12:37

you still have sanction counterparty

1:12:40

risk if you're on the wrong side of the

1:12:43

nation in a war then you're going to

1:12:45

find yourself sanctioned and those those

1:12:48

instruments are going to be canceled

1:12:52

so they are securities their securities

1:12:54

issued by a government

1:12:57

right a nation-state and they're senior

1:13:00

to of course a whole class of other

1:13:02

credit Securities like the municipal

1:13:04

bonds that are issued by cities like New

1:13:06

York or states or or of course corporate

1:13:10

bonds and other kinds of bonds

1:13:14

Bitcoin uh

1:13:17

is it is advantaged to those Sovereign

1:13:21

Securities in a variety of ways one is

1:13:24

there's no counterparty so there's so

1:13:27

you don't have a council that sets

1:13:29

monetary policy

1:13:31

that's a big Advantage the second is

1:13:33

there's no nation state

1:13:36

behind it so that's a that's a big

1:13:39

Advantage the third is it it is a asset

1:13:43

you can self-custody

1:13:44

it really isn't practical for a

1:13:47

corporation to custody a billion dollars

1:13:49

worth of government bonds

1:13:52

it's very you know you're gonna have to

1:13:53

put in a bank and the issue is

1:13:56

you may if you have government bonds in

1:13:59

a bank in in the middle of Africa then

1:14:01

maybe the bank in Africa seizes your

1:14:04

bonds even though they're U.S bonds

1:14:06

so how do you how do you actually move

1:14:09

your money if you actually make a

1:14:12

billion dollars in a country

1:14:15

that's not the US

1:14:17

you convert your money into bonds take a

1:14:19

10 haircut then you take a 30 haircut to

1:14:21

get the bonds out of the country

1:14:23

then when they're in the next country

1:14:25

you've got 60 cents on the dollar left

1:14:27

and now you've just got the counterparty

1:14:29

risk to the United States in duration

1:14:32

right um and so

1:14:35

all of these are challenges you can't

1:14:37

really manage with sovereign debt with

1:14:41

Bitcoin

1:14:42

by looking at the advantages in addition

1:14:44

the fact that no one can manipulate the

1:14:47

monetary policy and you don't have a

1:14:50

sovereign that you're facing or any kind

1:14:52

of government agency that you're facing

1:14:53

the other Advantage is you've got a

1:14:56

better tax treatment which is at the end

1:14:59

of the day you would much rather have

1:15:00

something that appreciates five percent

1:15:02

a year tax deferred than something that

1:15:06

pays you five percent yield that's

1:15:08

taxable

1:15:10

and of course Bitcoin

1:15:12

is going to appreciate more like 15 a

1:15:15

year you know in the conservative case

1:15:17

so if I had a choice of 15 no tax

1:15:22

asset appreciation which then compounds

1:15:26

would you rather have compounding 15

1:15:29

percent

1:15:31

tax deferred appreciation or

1:15:34

non-compounding after tax taxable five

1:15:38

percent yield

1:15:39

right it's pretty obvious which one

1:15:41

you'd like

1:15:42

there's a lot of uncertainty about taxes

1:15:46

so to the extent that you're able to own

1:15:49

an asset and not generate a yield and

1:15:53

never have to sell it

1:15:55

right then you've you've got maximum tax

1:15:58

advantage versus what you might find is

1:16:01

excise taxes you know income taxes

1:16:05

capital gains taxes and the like and

1:16:07

they can be layered across all the

1:16:09

jurisdictions

1:16:12

I look at Bitcoin like that

1:16:14

um clearly the tax treatment's another

1:16:16

big advantage and then finally

1:16:19

a huge advantage and there's two more

1:16:22

advantages one is duration Bitcoin is

1:16:24

the longest duration financial asset you

1:16:26

could own

1:16:27

I mean you've probably heard of like the

1:16:29

50-year UK guilts right 50-year Bond a

1:16:32

40-year bond but what about a

1:16:35

Thousand-Year instrument right like what

1:16:37

if I could hold it forever for 100 years

1:16:40

or a thousand years so Bitcoin is

1:16:42

constructed so that you can hold it

1:16:44

longer than the duration of a company

1:16:48

no Apple's never going to issue a 100

1:16:50

year bond

1:16:51

right and and of course a small

1:16:54

competitor to Walmart is not going to

1:16:58

issue a 50-year bond no one would want

1:16:59

to hold it for 50 years the company

1:17:01

might not be there

1:17:02

so the useful life or the life

1:17:05

expectancy of companies is short the

1:17:08

life expectancy of of uh developing

1:17:12

World debt

1:17:14

is also short within 20 to 30 years

1:17:16

every developing world country will

1:17:18

default on its debt so you can't really

1:17:22

hold a 50-year or 30-year developing

1:17:25

world bond

1:17:27

you know I

1:17:28

people have been reluctant to hold

1:17:30

anything longer than a 30-year U.S Bond

1:17:33

and if you look at um if you look at the

1:17:38

life of a currency

1:17:40

you know the Mexican currency hasn't

1:17:43

lasted 50 years

1:17:45

no Argentine currencies lasted 50 years

1:17:47

I mean world currencies last 100 years

1:17:51

Max so

1:17:53

the Russian currency failed 25 years ago

1:17:56

completely

1:17:58

so the world's full of examples of

1:18:00

currencies that don't last 50 years for

1:18:04

and uh so Bitcoin is um

1:18:07

a longer duration asset than any kind of

1:18:11

and it's even a longer duration asset

1:18:14

than that Palm Beach real estate if you

1:18:17

actually go to Palm Beach what you'll

1:18:18

find is actually the beach in Palm Beach

1:18:20

is eroding away

1:18:22

like there's 10 feet of beach between

1:18:25

the breakers

1:18:27

you know and uh and the water

1:18:29

and so

1:18:31

you can't even be guaranteed the beach

1:18:33

will be there

1:18:34

not for a thousand years maybe not for a

1:18:37

hundred years

1:18:38

and so you wouldn't really want to make

1:18:41

a Thousand-Year investment in a building

1:18:42

or in a piece of land

1:18:45

how long will you live in a given Nation

1:18:47

right can you pick it up and carry it

1:18:49

with you

1:18:51

so big Bitcoin it it's uh it has this

1:18:55

big set of tax advantages

1:18:58

I mean the last tax advantage by the way

1:18:59

I didn't notice property tax advantage

1:19:02

you can put a property tax on a building

1:19:04

or on an acre and you can't move the

1:19:08

building and you can't move the acre

1:19:10

but if you put a property tax on bitcoin

1:19:12

you can move the Bitcoin to Singapore

1:19:16

you could take it with you to Monaco

1:19:18

you could set up a company in Bermuda

1:19:20

you could move your family to El

1:19:22

Salvador

1:19:24

so the likelihood that you can actually

1:19:27

find a jurisdiction

1:19:30

with a better tax treatment is much

1:19:31

higher

1:19:34

you know

1:19:35

at the end of the day it's possible for

1:19:37

a nation the United States could put a

1:19:40

tax on the bond and say we're going to

1:19:41

tax you two percent of the value of all

1:19:43

the bonds you own

1:19:45

if they're U.S treasury bonds then

1:19:48

that'll follow you everywhere on Earth

1:19:51

but it's not so likely that the United

1:19:53

States is going to actually put a tax on

1:19:56

property that's not in the United States

1:19:58

that's not issued by the U.S

1:20:02

right might much much less likely that

1:20:04

you'll ever see that I mean they could

1:20:06

in theory

1:20:07

put a property tax on U.S citizens

1:20:11

living outside the U.S but but at some

1:20:14

point you know 10 years after you

1:20:16

renounce your citizenship your children

1:20:18

can probably actually hold some property

1:20:21

that is not subject to any particular

1:20:24

nation state

1:20:27

I would say

1:20:29

Bitcoin has a big tax advantage versus

1:20:32

sovereign debt it has a big duration

1:20:34

Advantage versus sovereign debt and

1:20:37

versus any other asset

1:20:39

it um it has Universal worldwide appeal

1:20:43

it has much greater scarcity it's not a

1:20:46

currency derivative

1:20:48

and uh and if you want to actually hedge

1:20:51

against inflation you have to buy

1:20:52

something which is not valued based on

1:20:54

the cash flows it generates

1:20:56

what is valued based on cash flows well

1:21:01

currency is 100 currency derivative a

1:21:04

bond is called substantially a currency

1:21:09

derivative 90 90 to 100 currency

1:21:12

derivative depending upon how you view

1:21:14

a value stock

1:21:17

is 70 a currency derivative

1:21:21

a Technology stock is a quarter to fifty

1:21:24

percent of currency derivative

1:21:26

a piece of real estate commercial real

1:21:29

estate that generates rents

1:21:31

is half a currency derivative

1:21:34

if the rents are capped at CPI it's even

1:21:37

more a currency derivative

1:21:40

right what's not a currency derivative

1:21:42

it's like if you own some scarce

1:21:44

desirable piece of art

1:21:46

that people want to pay you for just for

1:21:49

the joy of owning it

1:21:51

if if you have a piece of residential

1:21:54

luxury property that people simply want

1:21:57

to own to live in

1:21:59

right if you have a trophy asset if

1:22:02

you're the only person owning the

1:22:05

baseball the Babe Ruth hit out of the

1:22:07

park to break the record

1:22:09

maybe but it needs to be a trophy that

1:22:13

is unrelated

1:22:15

to the cash flows it generates and it

1:22:18

needs to be mobile

1:22:20

because if you have the trophy asset if

1:22:23

you have the best piece of property

1:22:26

in the Weimar Republic when the currency

1:22:29

collapses the property is not going to

1:22:31

be worth much

1:22:32

and even if the economy recovers

1:22:37

you know what's the prop the best house

1:22:40

in Berlin during World War II worth when

1:22:43

the Allies firebombed the entire city

1:22:47

ultimately if it's not portable

1:22:51

and is not scarce

1:22:53

it's not going to be uh uh it's not

1:22:56

going to be a hedge against currency

1:22:57

debasement

1:22:59

and so the entire world is looking for

1:23:01

diversification against currency

1:23:03

debasement especially internationally

1:23:06

right especially if you own a portfolio

1:23:09

of stocks in Argentina or turkey what do

1:23:12

you want more than some kind of hedge

1:23:15

against the debasement of that currency

1:23:18

so the world wants a currency Hedge

1:23:22

the gold a bar of gold has been people's

1:23:25

most popular idea but it's not a very

1:23:27

good idea

1:23:29

because it gets cut you know the value

1:23:31

of your goal gets cut in half every 35

1:23:33

years at best so it's just too

1:23:35

inflationary

1:23:37

how how else do I actually create

1:23:47

an asset in an international regime with

1:23:47

inflation that will hold its value

1:23:49

let me let me uh twist it around a bit

1:23:53

if I said to you pick a company

1:23:57

in Argentina that you would like to

1:23:59

invest in right now knowing that there's

1:24:01

inflation hyperinflation which one

1:24:09

right you have to pick a company that

1:24:09

generates cash flows in dollars outside

1:24:12

of Argentina

1:24:15

and then you also have to pick a company

1:24:17

that has uh that won't have its assets

1:24:20

seized by the government

1:24:23

right tricky

1:24:25

your best bet by the way if you want to

1:24:27

fix a company in an inflationary

1:24:29

environment would be the company adopts

1:24:32

a Bitcoin strategy and it sweeps all its

1:24:34

excess cash flows into Bitcoin

1:24:37

so if I show you a hotel in Turkey

1:24:40

and I tell you that they own 10 000

1:24:44

Bitcoin

1:24:46

well you know the company's got a floor

1:24:48

right if it's got no debt and ten

1:24:50

thousand Bitcoin and then you say well

1:24:53

how much do they make every year and I

1:24:54

say well right now they make about 50

1:24:56

million dollars a year in profit and

1:25:00

and they sweep it into Bitcoin

1:25:02

okay well so I can value the company

1:25:05

based upon the balance sheet 10 000

1:25:07

Bitcoin

1:25:08

plus the discounted value of the cash

1:25:12

flows of the p l

1:25:14

so I can estimate that but let's say the

1:25:17

worst thing that happens which is the

1:25:19

value of the cash flows goes to zero

1:25:21

you've got a floor on the value of the

1:25:24

company

1:25:25

if if the company's Enterprise Value is

1:25:28

made up fifty percent of its balance

1:25:29

sheet and 50 percent of its cash flows

1:25:32

then at least I know that uh if I can

1:25:36

buy it at a forty percent discount to

1:25:38

Enterprise Value then I'm probably not

1:25:40

going to lose much money

1:25:42

and the worst is it goes to that

1:25:45

it goes to the value of the balance

1:25:47

sheet assuming it doesn't get

1:25:49

expropriated by the government right

1:25:52

but if it's a multinational and it has

1:25:55

operations in six different countries

1:25:57

and it has um has its Bitcoin custody in

1:26:01

Switzerland

1:26:03

right then then you think well maybe

1:26:05

even things go bad in Africa and it's

1:26:07

African if it's a gold miner in Africa

1:26:10

but it has Bitcoin in Switzerland

1:26:14

right and the Bitcoin is worth half of

1:26:16

the company

1:26:17

then even if it's operations in Africa

1:26:19

gets shut down it's worth something

1:26:20

right

1:26:22

and so

1:26:24

Bitcoin actually serves a useful Road

1:26:27

role it's in it's a way

1:26:31

to diversify

1:26:34

um your portfolio from that currency

1:26:37

risk and from that operating risk

1:26:40

and you can do it if you're an investor

1:26:43

but you can also do it as company

1:26:46

so a company itself can construct an

1:26:48

equity which is Diversified and hedged

1:26:52

against the risks in its own uh

1:26:55

Marketplace

1:26:57

and uh and it can build shareholder

1:26:59

value in that way and so so this is a

1:27:02

global asset and a global strategy

1:27:05

and uh everybody in the world has local

1:27:09

banking risk and local currency risk and

1:27:13

local government risk

1:27:15

but up until Bitcoin they didn't have an

1:27:19

option to actually hedge that risk today

1:27:23

you could actually hold the majority of

1:27:25

your treasury assets outside of your

1:27:28

local banking system

1:27:30

outside of your local currency

1:27:33

outside of your local country

1:27:36

and you could still operate

1:27:38

and I I gotta believe that that's

1:27:40

beneficial in a lot of ways the obvious

1:27:43

way is your company's more likely to

1:27:47

the second way is

1:27:49

if you operate a business in let's just

1:27:53

say a Banana Republic country randomly

1:27:56

and it doesn't have a rule of law

1:27:58

if um if the government wants to seize

1:28:01

your mind or seize your bakery or seize

1:28:04

your hotel if all of your assets are in

1:28:06

the local bank under the control of the

1:28:07

government you have no Leverage

1:28:10

right they just take all your money lock

1:28:12

up your bank and take your factory and

1:28:15

your bankrupt

1:28:16

but if you actually have most of your

1:28:19

financial assets outside of that system

1:28:22

then they have a vested interest in

1:28:25

negotiating with you because they

1:28:26

probably like to keep you

1:28:29

a well-endowed a well-endowed

1:28:32

Corporation

1:28:33

providing jobs and making investments in

1:28:37

their country

1:28:39

so you see a strong Diversified

1:28:41

multinational

1:28:43

is going to get treated better than a

1:28:47

local

1:28:48

a local

1:28:50

undiversified manufacturer

1:28:54

right this is the I mean this is the

1:28:55

plight of Jews in the 30s in Germany

1:28:58

right where the Germans just seized all

1:29:01

their money took all their assets took

1:29:03

all their property because they didn't

1:29:04

have a choice

1:29:06

but if um

1:29:09

if you had a choice if you had your

1:29:10

money outside the country then maybe you

1:29:13

would say maybe I'll give you half let

1:29:15

me leave or I give you a quarter

1:29:18

where whereas what really happened in

1:29:20

the day was it rapidly became I give you

1:29:23

90 and then 95 and then it was I will

1:29:26

give you everything I have and my cousin

1:29:29

in America will give you a lot more to

1:29:31

let me out

1:29:32

and so that's the plight of The

1:29:35

Expatriate you know under duress

1:29:39

um in the conventional system

1:29:41

and I think that uh that Bitcoin really

1:29:44

is quite powerful idea

1:29:46

because you can you can build a company

1:29:50

where you're protected from being abused

1:29:52

by the local government or the local

1:29:55

Marketplace by using Bitcoin as treasury

1:29:59

asset but you can also create a security

1:30:01

and Equity that has a lot more appeal to

1:30:04

International investors

1:30:06

because you're holding an international

1:30:08

asset right so you're less risky to

1:30:11

people that would invest in you

1:30:13

and uh and you're respected more and

1:30:17

treated better by those that would abuse

1:30:19

you and so there's really no downside

1:30:22

and of course if you inve if you

1:30:24

generated 10 billion dollars of cash

1:30:26

flow over 10 years and you gave it all

1:30:30

when the crisis comes you've got nothing

1:30:32

whereas if you generate the 10 billion

1:30:35

in cash flows and put in Bitcoin when

1:30:36

the crisis comes you'll have 50 billion

1:30:38

dollars in assets you'll have right when

1:30:41

the crisis comes it'll be a non-crisis

1:30:44

right because because in the latter

1:30:47

situation your option is just shut down

1:30:49

the factory leave and have the 50

1:30:51

billion dollars and be rich

1:30:53

whereas the other the other operating

1:30:57

strategy is I gave away my riches to my

1:31:00

investors and if this Factory gets shut

1:31:03

down I have nothing

1:31:04

so one drives it's literally the road to

1:31:07

serfdom right it drives you to

1:31:09

desperation and eventually to death

1:31:11

corporate death and the other is a path

1:31:14

to life and vitality and prosperity

1:31:19

so Michael uh what you talk about with

1:31:22

regard to bitcoin not being a currency

1:31:25

derivative is the thesis that under

1:31:27

underpins layered money and the Bitcoin

1:31:30

layer which is that Bitcoin is its own

1:31:32

layer of money it does not derive from

1:31:34

the balance sheet of any financial

1:31:36

institution and it doesn't have the risk

1:31:38

of any counterparty and that's the most

1:31:41

important uh property about Bitcoin is

1:31:45

its independence from the financial

1:31:47

system the last question I have for you

1:31:50

is about a couple of the topics you've

1:31:53

talked about one being the spot ETF and

1:31:56

the United States uh regulatory

1:31:58

environment and the other being this

1:32:00

source of Bitcoin demand coming from

1:32:03

around the world in countries without

1:32:06

stable currency regimes in countries

1:32:09

that have seen frequent default of their

1:32:12

sovereign debt so maybe you can just

1:32:15

answer for us where is the Bitcoin

1:32:17

adoption gonna come from in the next

1:32:19

five to ten years is it both of these

1:32:21

sources is it one before the other and

1:32:24

what is your vision for Bitcoin adoption

1:32:26

Bitcoin adoption is going to come from

1:32:28

uh all channels uh there are going to be

1:32:33

on-ramps via crypto exchanges everywhere

1:32:36

in the world

1:32:37

there are going to be on-ramps via

1:32:39

peer-to-peer trading people are going to

1:32:41

actually trade their goods and services

1:32:42

for Bitcoin uh to get in the ecosystem

1:32:45

there are going to be on ramps from

1:32:50

uh from operating companies

1:32:53

that start to start to heavily invest in

1:32:56

Bitcoin there's going to be on-ramps

1:32:58

from uh the spot ETF and eventually

1:33:02

they'll be on-ramps from conventional

1:33:03

Banks

1:33:04

like Deutsche Bank and the like

1:33:07

they're all different ways that Capital

1:33:11

will flow into Bitcoin Network

1:33:14

um what will be the biggest

1:33:16

the thing that's going to drive price

1:33:18

most that'll be uh

1:33:21

the first order driver

1:33:23

of the value in the network will be the

1:33:26

spot ETF first

1:33:28

um if you if you have the ability to buy

1:33:30

Bitcoin right now by a crypto exchange

1:33:33

you should count yourself lucky you have

1:33:37

if you have the technical capability to

1:33:39

buy it

1:33:40

and if you have uh the knowledge to be

1:33:43

confident in buying it then you're going

1:33:46

to be the winner

1:33:48

because you get to buy it at 26 000 a

1:33:51

coin instead of a million a coin

1:33:53

right and so when uh when the

1:33:56

institutions come massive walls of

1:33:59

capital come and when they buy it

1:34:02

there's there's going to be a massive

1:34:04

short squeeze there's there's not enough

1:34:06

to buy the price is going to have to

1:34:09

adjust up rapidly

1:34:10

and as the price adjusts up then um then

1:34:15

the ability for the humble pleb to stack

1:34:18

SATs and a benefit

1:34:20

it'll be there but it won't instead

1:34:22

you'll be stocking SATs at 250 000 a

1:34:25

coin not twenty five thousand a coin

1:34:26

right and if you're making ten dollars

1:34:28

an hour at McDonald's

1:34:31

right that's the same as as making a

1:34:33

hundred dollars an hour

1:34:35

then right so

1:34:37

you know you'll eventually look back and

1:34:38

say wow I you know I'm paying 40 times

1:34:41

as much

1:34:43

so if you're making ten dollars at

1:34:45

McDonald's that's the same as as getting

1:34:47

paid four thousand dollar or four

1:34:50

hundred dollars an hour right at that

1:34:53

time so right now uh

1:34:56

right now is a very special period

1:34:59

because we're at the tail end of the

1:35:02

crypto period

1:35:05

or the crypto era where everybody got

1:35:07

Bitcoin primarily through crypto

1:35:08

exchanges and we're just at the cusp at

1:35:12

the beginning of the Wall Street error

1:35:14

where people most people will get their

1:35:16

Bitcoin exposure by buying an ETF from

1:35:19

Fidelity or BlackRock or buying some

1:35:23

other security

1:35:25

and um eventually you'll see uh you'll

1:35:29

see a banking error where people will

1:35:33

just go to the their Bank JP Morgan and

1:35:35

they'll buy the asset

1:35:37

and there'll be treasury services for

1:35:39

people who want to hold Bitcoin in kind

1:35:42

and then there'll be others that will

1:35:44

hold the spot ETF because they think

1:35:46

that's a bit easier and then they'll be

1:35:48

they'll always be the community of

1:35:51

maximalist you know that our

1:35:54

self-custing with their own seed phrase

1:35:58

and Hardware wallet and the like

1:36:00

and there will be I think an explosion

1:36:03

in in options and diverse ways to

1:36:08

acquire Bitcoin and whole Bitcoin

1:36:10

I can see at some point when all the

1:36:13

banks have adopted it maybe you acquire

1:36:15

with your bank uh I can see another

1:36:17

point when Apple and Google and

1:36:19

Microsoft will adopt it and maybe you'll

1:36:22

buy it and hold it on your iPhone

1:36:24

I will see I can see a world of a lot of

1:36:28

special purpose you know Bitcoin seed

1:36:31

phrase devices and signing devices and

1:36:34

there'll be competition there and some

1:36:36

people will do it that way

1:36:38

I can see a world where there will be uh

1:36:41

layers

1:36:42

right if Bitcoin is a layer then Bitcoin

1:36:46

sitting in the lightning network is sort

1:36:49

of a layer up if it's custodial

1:36:52

uh Bitcoin sitting in a spot D ETF is

1:36:55

another layer Bitcoin sitting on the

1:36:58

balance sheet of microstrategy when you

1:36:59

own microstrategy stock is another layer

1:37:02

uh Bitcoin sitting custodially in uh in

1:37:06

the iCloud

1:37:08

may feel like a another layer to people

1:37:12

and then Bitcoin insurance policies or I

1:37:15

can imagine Bitcoin funds and other ETFs

1:37:19

imagine it's not an ETF which is pure

1:37:22

Bitcoin what if I actually take a short

1:37:25

duration sovereign debt and I'm and I

1:37:28

mix it 50 50 with Bitcoin

1:37:31

so and you know I end up with an

1:37:34

instrument which is on one side it's

1:37:36

generating 500 basis points of taxable

1:37:39

income

1:37:40

and low volatility versus the dollar and

1:37:43

on the other hand it's generating

1:37:45

15 percent tax deferred appreciation and

1:37:49

I create this this instrument which

1:37:51

doesn't have the appreciation of Bitcoin

1:37:54

but it doesn't have the volatility so

1:37:56

you could imagine all sorts of

1:37:58

Securities like that I I think a Bitcoin

1:38:01

is it's like the sucralose of money

1:38:04

you know how you want to make anything

1:38:05

sweet you put a little bit of sucralose

1:38:07

in it and it makes everything sweet your

1:38:09

coffee your your food your drink your

1:38:12

everything

1:38:13

well if I if I put a little bit of

1:38:15

Bitcoin into my insurance policy

1:38:17

my Bitcoin insurance policy has lower

1:38:20

premiums and and higher payout

1:38:24

and my Bitcoin back bonds you know they

1:38:27

have a higher appreciation or maybe I

1:38:30

maybe I lace Bitcoin into the s p index

1:38:33

and I give you half s p and half Bitcoin

1:38:35

and then maybe I give you all Bitcoin

1:38:37

but I think that there'll be lots of

1:38:39

different

1:38:41

Bitcoin assets that people might want to

1:38:44

buy and you could even imagine

1:38:47

Bitcoin uh getting built into different

1:38:50

uh Nations

1:38:52

assets right like if I wanna if if I

1:38:56

want uh to issue bonds as El Salvador I

1:38:58

issue Bitcoin back bonds or maybe in

1:39:01

Turkey I start issuing some kind of

1:39:03

sovereign bond which is half backed by

1:39:05

Bitcoin and half backed by something

1:39:07

else and and I and I give you a tax

1:39:10

advantage to buy it like if you buy this

1:39:12

bond to generate Geo but you don't have

1:39:14

to pay income tax on it like that's how

1:39:16

you New York City municipal bonds work

1:39:19

where the municipal bonds give you a tax

1:39:21

advantage of your New York City dweller

1:39:25

I can I can see Bitcoin getting

1:39:27

securitized into lots of different

1:39:29

assets and ultimately it will uh it'll

1:39:34

spread to billions and billions of

1:39:36

people

1:39:37

and they'll use it lots of different

1:39:40

and um

1:39:42

it'll spread to thousands and thousands

1:39:44

of companies and

1:39:46

they'll use lots of different ways and

1:39:48

the early adopters will be The

1:39:50

Visionaries and and the ones that that

1:39:53

have the greatest incentive like some

1:39:55

people have a need

1:39:57

hyperinflation is driving adoption right

1:40:00

I mean the reason that that Bitcoin is

1:40:03

popular in turkey and popular in

1:40:05

Argentina is because the alternative is

1:40:08

not very appealing

1:40:10

if you convert all your money from local

1:40:13

currency to Dollars put in the local

1:40:14

bank and then the bank seizes your

1:40:16

currency converts it back to the local

1:40:18

converts your dollars back into the

1:40:20

local currency and devalues at ten to

1:40:22

one then you're going to realize that

1:40:24

simply buying dollars isn't a solution

1:40:27

so I think that um

1:40:30

adoptions being driven by a variety of

1:40:32

things

1:40:33

I have a price Model for Bitcoin

1:40:36

and my price Model for Bitcoin is is the

1:40:40

price is driven by the monetary

1:40:42

inflation in the fiat currency frame of

1:40:45

reference

1:40:46

that's one part of it

1:40:48

you know if the currency is

1:40:50

hyperinflating and 100 a year you're

1:40:52

going to see uh Bitcoin price in that

1:40:55

currency going up faster than that or at

1:40:58

that rate

1:40:59

so that's the first driver

1:41:01

inflation

1:41:02

but it's a vector depending on the

1:41:05

currency the second driver is um

1:41:11

in this case uh

1:41:14

the adoption of Bitcoin as a treasury

1:41:19

Reserve asset by the people and the

1:41:21

institutions in the marketplace

1:41:24

so the more people that adopt Bitcoin is

1:41:27

when you're a hodler you've adopted it

1:41:29

as a treasury Reserve asset people say

1:41:32

well that's not using it of course

1:41:34

that's using it in fact the single most

1:41:37

important use of money is to adopt it as

1:41:40

your balance sheet if everybody on Earth

1:41:42

adopted Bitcoin as their primary

1:41:44

treasury asset it would go to 10 million

1:41:47

dollars a coin overnight

1:41:49

and then up up from there so adoption as

1:41:53

a treasury asset is uh is second and

1:41:58

governments can do it

1:41:59

institutions can do it endowments can do

1:42:02

it religions can do it families can do

1:42:05

it corporations can do it right I mean

1:42:07

every entity with a treasury could adopt

1:42:10

Bitcoin as

1:42:13

an asset and there's a there's a degree

1:42:15

right is it one percent adoption five

1:42:17

percent ten percent fifty percent ninety

1:42:19

percent 100 percent

1:42:22

obviously the more adoption the more

1:42:24

power so that's the second driver

1:42:26

the third driver is technology or

1:42:29

utility

1:42:30

right if on the day that Apple says

1:42:32

we've built a Bitcoin signing device

1:42:34

into the iOS phone or the or the iPhone

1:42:37

and now you can use your iPhone and your

1:42:39

Apple watch you know and your MacBook is

1:42:42

a multi-sig setup

1:42:45

you know or you can assign multi-sig

1:42:47

between three members of your family

1:42:50

with family sharing or something when

1:42:52

they do that and they make it

1:42:54

instantaneous and easy then you're going

1:42:57

to see a big surge

1:42:58

in adoption of Bitcoin

1:43:01

right technology drives adoption

1:43:04

and then you'll see a big surge in the

1:43:06

price

1:43:07

now technology is not the only thing

1:43:09

that drives adoption what else drives

1:43:11

adoption hyperinflation right fear

1:43:14

drives adoption so hyperinflation is a

1:43:17

marketing campaign for Bitcoin inflation

1:43:20

is the marketing campaign for Bitcoin

1:43:22

also regulation when The Regulators say

1:43:26

that Bitcoin is a commodity an asset

1:43:28

without an issuer that drives adoption

1:43:30

when they actually approve a spot ETF

1:43:33

that drives adoption when fast B

1:43:35

approves fair value accounting that

1:43:37

drives adoption so regulatory Clarity

1:43:39

drives adoption awareness drives

1:43:42

adoption education Drive adoption

1:43:46

technology you know it's more important

1:43:49

than Apple adopt Bitcoin than it is that

1:43:52

your mobile startup adopt Bitcoin right

1:43:55

if Apple builds Bitcoin into the iPhone

1:43:57

that's more important than the fact that

1:43:59

somebody that wants to launch the next

1:44:01

what's up build Bitcoin into their app

1:44:03

so so the the behaviors of apple and

1:44:06

Microsoft and Amazon and Google they're

1:44:09

all they're just like nation states

1:44:11

really

1:44:14

you know if China if China Embraces

1:44:16

China says you can own Bitcoin right the

1:44:18

more of embrace from China the more

1:44:20

Embrace of the EU the more embrace the

1:44:21

of the US the more adoption so those are

1:44:25

the three first order drivers you know

1:44:28

adoption technical utility and inflation

1:44:31

and then the the last a second order

1:44:34

driver

1:44:36

is productivity growth

1:44:38

of the people that have adopted it

1:44:41

right in the extreme and this takes you

1:44:43

to the Austrian economy economics theory

1:44:46

of sound money if everybody uses our

1:44:49

money

1:44:52

then the money and if the economy grows

1:44:55

its supply of goods and services by two

1:44:57

percent a year

1:44:58

the money will get two percent more

1:45:00

valuable each year assuming the money

1:45:02

supply is constant right so ultimately

1:45:06

it's it's not just about adoption but

1:45:09

like imagine

1:45:11

the company that adopts Bitcoin also

1:45:13

doubles their cash flows the next year

1:45:15

you see

1:45:16

right so the productivity of the Bitcoin

1:45:20

Community will ultimately Drive Bitcoin

1:45:23

after we get through the first order

1:45:25

effects

1:45:27

but the first order effects of inflation

1:45:29

and utility and and adoption you know

1:45:34

those things are going to dwarf every

1:45:38

other Factor

1:45:40

all of these things are kind of a

1:45:42

function of time right

1:45:45

right one can say over time

1:45:48

information will spread adoption will

1:45:50

spread people will build this into

1:45:52

technology inflation is a function of

1:45:56

so over time you can say bitcoin price

1:45:58

is going up over time the reason it's

1:46:00

going up is because of utility adoption

1:46:03

and inflation and productivity because

1:46:05

they're all functions of time

1:46:08

and you know that that's my view on it

1:46:13

as you can see the real big question

1:46:15

mark is is what will each individual do

1:46:19

what will each family do what will each

1:46:23

institution do what will each company do

1:46:25

what will every executive do what will

1:46:28

every nation state do everybody chooses

1:46:32

how rapidly and how enthusiastically

1:46:38

they adopt this

1:46:41

asset class and they adopt this network

1:46:44

and they adopt this protocol

1:46:46

right but Bitcoin is

1:46:48

it's uh

1:46:50

it's an asset it's a network

1:46:52

it's protocol and it's an ideology

1:46:56

and it is defended by computer power

1:47:00

electrical power economic power and

1:47:04

political power

1:47:05

and right now it's growing at a very

1:47:09

rapid rate

1:47:11

the computer power is 400 420 hash rate

1:47:14

I would take all the computers in the

1:47:16

world to attack it electrical power is

1:47:18

12 and a half gigawatts the economic

1:47:21

power looks to be about 550 billion

1:47:23

dollars if I calculate the basis of

1:47:26

Bitcoin investors that's how much

1:47:28

money's been invested

1:47:30

you can get to that back of the envelope

1:47:32

estimate if you just take the four-year

1:47:33

simple moving average and multiply by

1:47:35

the outstanding Supply and that's a

1:47:37

pretty good surrogate for on average

1:47:39

what people have invested to buy their

1:47:41

Bitcoin

1:47:42

and then the political power is 220

1:47:44

million people that own some of it

1:47:47

right and I mean that's Google's best

1:47:49

estimate right now I think it's growing

1:47:50

by millions every month

1:47:53

I expect will be a billion sometime this

1:47:56

decade

1:47:57

and of course

1:47:58

people 220 million people with 550

1:48:02

billion dollars invested don't want

1:48:03

their money taken away and and that's

1:48:05

what drives their political behavior and

1:48:08

that's what drives the network

1:48:10

so there we go

1:48:13

Michael thank you so much for sharing

1:48:15

with us your vision of Bitcoin and some

1:48:20

of the Bitcoin adoption metrics that

1:48:22

you're watching uh with Michael Saylor

1:48:24

I'm Nick Bhatia thank you for joining us

1:48:26

once again at the Bitcoin layer uh

1:48:28

Michael tell our audience where they can

1:48:30

find you yeah I post on uh what used to

1:48:33

be Twitter what is now X well on a

1:48:36

pretty frequent basis you can follow me

1:48:38

at myhandle sailor s-a-y-l-o-r

1:48:42

so find me at sailor on on X or you can

1:48:47

go to hope.com and we've got a lot of

1:48:51

useful Bitcoin education materials on

1:48:54

Hope think Bitcoin is Hope

1:48:56

my personal website's michael.com

1:48:59

and uh

1:49:01

I've got an account on Instagram I just

1:49:03

I put cool photos Michael underscore

1:49:05

sailor on Instagram if if people are

1:49:08

hanging out there and uh if you're

1:49:11

really good and you're on Noster you can

1:49:12

find me on Noster sailor at hope.com all

1:49:17

right no sir thank you Michael and we

1:49:20

look forward to talking to you again

1:49:22

yeah my pleasure the Bitcoin layer is

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