MicroStrategy's Michael Saylor: Bitcoin To $13M? MicroStrategy's $4B Bitcoin Bet | PBD Podcast | 508

did you ever think you make it I feel

I'm so I Victory I know this life for me

yeah why would you bet on Goliath when

we got bet David value taming giving

values contagious this world are

entrepreneurs we G no value to haters

run homie look what I become I'm the I'm

the one

all right folks so so I got a question

for you I got a question for you what's

the biggest purchase you made today I'm

curious what' you buy today did you buy

maybe we went to lunch you bought

something out Chipotle maybe you bought

a car today right maybe you bought a

house today my guest today bought

$4.6 billion of Bitcoin today okay

that's Michael sailor with micro

strategy now here's a kicker before we

get into it we've had him on uh I think

this the fourth time Michael you've been

out let's go to the first time we had on

right with the picture of how many

signatures was on the wall we barely had

any signatures on the wall right this is

Michael coming on the first time we're

talking about Bitcoin every time he

leaves you know everybody here would buy

Bitcoin or two it's like man I got to

buy something here first time on you

came was May uh March 1st of

2022 at the time the valuation of micro

strategy stock was $41 a share then you

came back December 5th of 2022 that's 9

months later the the stock value dropped

50% from $41 to

2069 then you came back on May 9th of

2023 the stock went up a little bit to

$28 the stock today is valued at if you

can pull it up Rob

$370 give or take as of right now and I

think the last time network was around a

billion dollars or so today Network just

in these last months I talked about

folks went from that ion billion and a

half to roughly 9 billion Michael it's

great to have you back on the podcast

thanks for having me I'm counting your

money I hope you don't mind it I'm

counting the the money I got here I like

the trend if I just keep coming back the

stock will keep going up I like it I

like it I like it so right after bat

today bitcoin's 90,000 91,000 did you

already have it planned that you're

going to make the investment today was

the purchase already schedule was a

pre-schedule thing or was it no the

market doesn't know let's make the

announcement we're buying this you know

and October 30th we announced our 2121

plan so uh $21 billion worth of equity

we're going to raise and $21 billion

we're going to raise and fixed income

securities and um we filed this uh shelf

registration to sell the 21 billion in

equity in at the market offerings so

then the next week uh we had the

election lot of activity uh the red

sweep and then uh that Monday Monday a

week ago from today we announced we'd

actually bought $2 billion do of Bitcoin

so that was a that was like a two

billion doll week and it's like 27,000

Bitcoin or something but then another

week went

by so we uh we the announcement this

morning uh was from last week's activity

so that's five days in the marketplace

so we did about $2 billion do the first

week and we did um $4.6 billion the

second week this the biggest ever

biggest purchase yeah I think it's the

biggest Bitcoin purchase ever yeah yeah

cuz I see this year August 2020 you made

a quar of a billion September 2020 175

December 2020 you bought 50 million

February 2021 you bought a billion

November 11 2024 last week two billion

and then today 4.6 billion yeah so 6.6

billion since we had our quarterly

results so where uh you know I think

it's like 41 42 times we bought Bitcoin

MH in that range so ever since August of

2020 we keep buying we don't sell it's

it's a very simple strategy Bitcoin is

Manhattan cyberspace I just want to keep

buying Manhattan and cyberspace I have

this theory that one day eight billion

people want to put their money in

Manhattan and cyberspace and of course

the more we bought the more transparent

we are the more the capital markets get

behind us so now if you're an investor

uh on Wall Street and you're looking for

the company that's going to buy up cyber

space then you're buying micro strategy

stock and and uh some people like

Bitcoin so they buy Bitcoin you know

every day in my life I tell people to

buy Bitcoin some people want more

Bitcoin right the joke I have is the

only thing better than Bitcoin is more

Bitcoin so so we bored $4.2 billion at

82 basis points and we bought Bitcoin

with it so for the people that like

Bitcoin they buy it but people that

really like it want to borrow a lot of

money and buy more and then there's

another group of investors the

convertible Bond investors and and how

do you buy Bitcoin at the all-time high

and get the upside but don't have the

downside so you buy the bonds and it

turns out that our bonds have

outperformed Bitcoin but they're bonds

and so that blows people's minds that we

can actually sell you a bond they don't

just outperform all the other bonds some

of these bonds are I mean they're

trading 200 plus against 100 basis so

they're up 100% so they outperform all

the bonds but they also outperform the

Bitcoin and that's because we've created

a public company with a tiered capital

structure and we've got a lot of

permanent Capital then we've got the the

senior uh bonds and the capital

structure and then the the equity you

know generates a BTC yield and so a lot

of Bitcoin Maxis pile into the equity

and that gives us a premium and we're

able to use the premium from the equity

in order to create very creative Capital

markets transactions with the bonds and

the rest of the equ now the question is

like when you went from you know 41 to

$30 to $20 and the Market's reacting to

you Michael sailor was wrong he he made

a mistake look what's going to happen to

all his investors money biggest mistake

he's going to get a margin call he's

about to lose it all right did you ever

get a margin call that that ever happen

no nothing were you ever close to a

margin call not even close no why

weren't you close to a margin call well

we just weren't I mean like most of our

debt is convertible debt it's not Margin

Call I mean you can't call it it's

unsecured no recourse I got it like so

we borrow a billion dollars for five

years for 0% interest there's no Margin

Call possible who gives you a billion

dollars for five years at 0% uh is that

when money was cheap convertible

actually they still do we just we

borrowed a billion dollarars uh uh two

months ago at 82 basis points and so the

way it works is we're selling

convertible bonds and the convertible

bonds are have a bond component and then

they have a an option component like a

call option and so the convertible

arbitragers and the options Traders they

like the volatility in the stock you

know one thing you might not know is uh

is we have the most volatile stock in

the S&P 500 so if you took all 500

stocks in the S&P 500 you said which is

the most volatile like we're like a 100

Vol the S&P the vix is like 15 you know

most of the mag mag s stocks they would

be like 20 25 Vol Bitcoin is 50 so it's

like three to four times the volatility

of the S&P index micro strategy we lever

the Bitcoin so we get twox that so we

get to 100 and uh conventional investors

are afraid of volatility they're you

know they fear it they're like I I can't

handle the volatility but volatility is

like RPM in an engine it's like spending

at 100 RPM instead of 10 RPM so uh if

you plug volatility in the black shs

equation the options are a lot more

valuable if you have volatility so when

I'm selling a convertible Bond it's got

an option attached to it so so if you're

an investor you want to buy a

convertible bond from a company with

large volatility large liquidity and

durability right you want to know the

company's going to keep going but if you

think about liquidity that's like energy

so like maybe I spend uh I spend that

little Merry Christmas hat uh you know

at 50 rpm it's a little kids toy or

little balls of wood propell in your

kids toy

but if I take a baseball bat and I spend

it at 100 RPM it's a weapon but if I

take a uh 20 ton flywheel and I spend at

100 RPM it's a it's a turbine like I can

I can move a ship and so we have uh well

now we have $30 billion worth of capital

and when we're spending it at 100 Vol

that's a a huge opportunity for options

Traders so there's a massive options

Market a massive amount of liquidity a

mass massive amount of uh volatility and

so the convertible Arbitrage guys let me

say it different way if you have 100 Vol

you can generate 100% interest just by

selling the upside like like so people

there are funds like MST all they do is

just sell the calls they they just sell

the volatility and they generate like

180% dividend you so who Who loans us

the money people that want that

volatility because the volatility is

worth a lot more than getting paid 12%

interest so who is who is giving you the

money who's it coming from who do he

what does a typical investor looks like

look like well there's uh it depends for

the for the equity um it's Bitcoin

maximalist in people that believe in

Bitcoin that that want to outperform

bitcoin uh it's also institutional

investors that like Bitcoin but they

can't buy Bitcoin because of their

Charter they can only buy an operating

company me many investors have large

pools of capital and they're not allowed

to buy the commodity they have to buy a

company so the question when a lot of

people ask and says why would you why

would you give your money to micro

strategy to invest so why not just go do

yourself and buy Bitcoin this is because

some can't do that right well there's

there's a lot of answers that one is uh

can you borrow a billion dollars for

free for five years with no recourse and

unsecured probably not right individuals

can't borrow money for free for a long

period of time it's difficult companies

can so so one reason why is because

because we can borrow $4.2 billion

unsecured for a long period of time and

pay less than 1% interest so when you're

investing with us you're not just

getting the Bitcoin you're getting the

access to the company that has the

cheapest cost to cap we probably have

the cheapest cost of capital in the

entire market like if you look at every

S&P company if you look at every company

in the market who else can borrow

billions of dollars for less than 1%

interest so one thing they want is they

want our our financial power but then if

you go to Europe uh like in the UK I

think uh it's impossible it's illegal

for a Europe uh for a UK investor to buy

Bitcoin they can't like the regs don't

allow them to buy it anywhere in the UK

they can't buy it in their like

retirement fun they have like they have

retirement plans and 401K so a lot of

times there are regulations that

prohibit investors from buying Bitcoin

but they can buy companies we're a

company so they can buy our stock so if

you had money locked up in your

retirement plan and and you loved

Bitcoin but you can't buy the Bitcoin

you can't even buy the ETF you can buy

micro strategy there are a lot of pools

of capital that they they could buy us

and there's another example which is you

know there's been no options Market on

uh on bitcoin ETFs and you can't margin

it so you can't borrow against them but

with micro strategy we have very healthy

options we have an80 billion open

interest in our options Market that's

extreme like our the options Market in

our stock is 20x bigger than the options

Market in BTO which is the only Bitcoin

ETF that had options so sometimes people

want want to use those for leverage and

then the last point is you can't borrow

against those ETFs but if you had a

million dollars of Apple stock you could

borrow against it it's Sofer plus 100

basis points if you have a million

dollars of micro strategy stock you can

borrow against it if you have a million

dollars worth of ibit or uh BTC you

can't what percentage of micr strategy

stock is in Bitcoin is it 100% or what's

the percentage of it well one all of our

not the technology I know the technology

but of the Investments you guys make

what percentage is Bitcoin we have $30

billion of Bitcoin and we have $60

million of cash I got it I got it so 99%

99 point something sure

all of our liquid assets are B we're a

very pure play mhm and we don't

diversify and we don't hedge sometimes

people say well why don't you diversify

or why don't you hedge and the answer is

because everybody that buys our stock

doesn't want us to hedge everyone that

the people that short my stock they want

me to be long the people that are long

want me to be long Bitcoin um you can

diversify using our stock if you want to

be 5% exposed to bitcoin you can either

buy 5% you can put five if you had 100

million bucks and you wanted 5% Bitcoin

you could buy $5 million of ibit or you

could buy less you could buy two or

three million doll of micro strategy

because we're like 2x Bitcoin so and if

you want to be 98% something else that's

your decision I wonder I wonder who

shorted you guys I'm looking at kisil

Capital a hedge fund uh that has shorted

micro strategy right who else anybody

else that's known that shorted you guys

that was against you well first of all I

think there's like 35 or 40 billion

dollars of put interest short interest

in the options Market a lot and there's

probably billion 10 billion dollars of

short Equity but uh they fall into two

categories some people uh don't like

crypto or they don't like Bitcoin

actually so that's one reason they might

short it because they don't like the

asset class and they just short it naked

another group of people might be macro

Traders and maybe they're shorting it to

hedge another bullish play or because

they think there's going to be a

negative macro event and and bit Bitcoin

is a macro asset so if you want to take

a negative short macro play like a like

when there's a missile scare the Iran

Israeli Missile Crisis and people think

there's going to be war in the Middle

East Bitcoin trades down and so if you

you know on Saturday night or something

or if you think something like that you

might want to take a short macro View

and because you can't short Bitcoin with

leverage but you can short micro

strategy with you know with these

options so if if you wanted just a macro

handle you might do it and then the

third class are these arbitragers that

think that they want a short micro

strategy and go long Bitcoin because

they're going to bet that the premium we

trade against is going to compress and

that was the carale trade I got it and

I'm looking at an article that says over

the next three years you're planning on

buying another 40 $ billion of Bitcoin

yeah so you can't get enough of this no

well I mean I look I think Bitcoin was a

you know it it was a 90 billion asset

class in March of 2000 when I was first

looking at it and then by August it was

about $180 billion doll asset class and

right now four years later it's

1.8 trillion asset class and I think

it's going to 18 trillion then 180

trillion then it's going to go beyond

that so I I think it's a very simple

thing I think Bitcoin is going to grow

from 0.1% of the money in the world to

7% of the money in the world over the

next 21 years and of course you should

just go long and keep buying it 0.1% to

you said 7% yeah it it'll go from like

one 1.8 trillion to $240 trillion and

it'll go up 29% a year ARR that's that's

that is my base case and and I've heard

you say that in 21 years it's going to

be at $30 million that 13 million a coin

13 million a coin 13 million a coin at

29% every Bitcoin you don't buy is going

to cost you $13 million my friend every

Bitcoin so let me let me let me ask this

question your four Bitcoin Ferrari is

going to be a six 55

million dollar thing let me let me ask

this question let me ask this question

so right now your uh what's micro

strategy worth today what's the number

74 billion whatever the number was right

can you look up micro strategy market

cap I'm just curious okay $73 billion

today if you're saying

0.1% today it's going to go to 7% That's

700x right so if it's 990,000 today if I

do 13

million divided by

990,000 you're expecting

to 144 x micro strategy in 21 years if I

do 144 times

73 billion you're estimating to be a$0

a. half trillion doll company in 21

years is that correct give or take yeah

I guess with that math

yeah Bitcoin goes from 90,000 to 13

million so multiply 13 divided by

990,000 it gets you to a big number you

you were given it you were given know

but elon's forecasting 30 trillion so

we're still chasing after the robots and

the self flying cars so the 30 trillion

he's forecasting is what that's not

Bitcoin that's just what he's

forecasting oh for Tesla for Tesla for

Tesla and that's what he's saying he's

going to be at in in 21 years that's

what I heard and I don't actually I

think he's going to go faster I I don't

think he said 21 years mine is a long

range forecast I don't know what time

frame he how's your relationship with

them with Elon we all love Elon okay so

but but you're you're you're also a

super psycho competitor as well I don't

think you're a guy that's sitting on the

sidelines just wanting to be you're also

very competive I stay in my Lane he he

does rockets and satellites and cars and

robots I'm going to stay in my Lane I'm

just about Bitcoin so let me let me ask

this when somebody sits there and you're

like okay I'm going to build a company

right yeah if you build a company and

you're going to take the money you're

going to say I'm going to reinvest it in

whatever I operate okay and what I

operate I can forese growing it pick a

number 100% a year okay even if you grow

a company 100% year let's just say

you're first you do whatever million

bucks okay second year you do 2 million

4 8 16 million 32 million 64 million 128

million 256 million half a billion 1

billion 2 billion 4 billion 8 billion 16

billion 32 billion 64 billion 128

billion 250 billion half a billion 1

trillion let's look at this 1 2 3 4 5 6

7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

21 if a person started a business today

that did a million dollars this year and

they grew out 100% the next 20 years

even in 20 years when you're a 10 and a

half trillion Auto Company they're just

going to be a trillion auto company so

you're seeing this as rather than

operating a company we're going to be

better off just knowing what's going to

happen to bitcoin because Bitcoin is

going to be the next Manhattan basically

what what I'm saying is that the the 29%

ARR is the risk-free cost of capital

Capal in the crypto economy and and the

way you get to that number is bitcoin's

been going up about 55 or 60% a year for

the past four years it's been going up a

little bit faster before that but right

now bitcoin's appreciating 60% a year

the S&P index which is the conventional

cost of capital is more like 14 15% a

year so you've got like a 4ex difference

the the mainstream economy is plus 15

points Bitcoin is 60 they're going to

converge Bitcoin is as Bitcoin gets to

the size of the S&P when it's 100

trillion or 200 trillion and it's close

to the S&P it's going to be

1.5x the performance of the S&P and 1.5x

the V the vix which is the S&P

volatility is about 15 the AR is about

15 bitcoin's like 6060 I mean there's

and you you can you can figure it out

from the law of large numbers when

bitcoin's a hundred trillion dollar

asset class it's not going to be as

volatile and of course at some point

companies in the S&P are all going to

hold Bitcoin and so like if micro

strategy gets in the S&P and Tesla owns

Bitcoin and other companies you know

Microsoft starts buying Bitcoin pretty

soon the performance of Bitcoin is going

to Goose up is going to is going to

improve the performance of the S&P and

then bitcoin's going to converge

bitcoin's always going to be more

volatile because it's

247365 and and it and it's always going

to be higher performance because it

doesn't have the risk factors of

property or companies and the like I

think this is what you showed right you

you were showing

this bonds gold in the last four years

6% real estate 10 S&P 15 you know that

that's a very useful chart you can

pretty much understand the world if you

focus on that which is if you capitalize

on bonds you're minus 5% that's why all

the banks are are struggling and that's

why operating companies can't accumulate

Capital because what that telling you is

that you're if you're using bonds as

capital it's toxic it's sucking 5% of

your life out of you it's and look at

the cost of capital

15% so here if you use bonds you're

minus 20% versus the SNP that means that

it's an awful you know way to build

shareholder value if I asked you do you

want to hold a hundred billion dollar of

cash in bonds and your apple or

Microsoft the answer is no because it's

minus 20% you might as well just give it

back to the shareholders they put in the

SP index but now look at the other side

right Bitcoin is 4X that so if I said

you could put $100 billion into bonds

or1 billion do into the S&P or100

billion do into Bitcoin which of the

three charts do you want it's pretty

obvious you take the 60% so what micro

strategy did is we capitalized on

bitcoin which is 60% and then we levered

it up with cheap convertible debt and

Equity raises and we got to

20% and that's how we ran 30X like

that's why we outperformed Nvidia like

we're two or 3x Nvidia over this time

period because we're actually

capitalized now coming back to the idea

of growth look the best the big idea

here is there's is there's $450 trillion

of money invested in bonds invested in

real estate invested in equity by

wealthy uh individuals family and

institutions and it's just for a

longterm long-term store of value people

that are wealthy just want to stay

wealthy people just want to keep their

money so they're buying these store of

value assets from the 20th century and

those store of value assets they kind of

bleed 3% energy because of famine and

hurricane and War and inflation and

competition and obsolesence and accident

and torts and unions and fill in the

blank with all the things that c your

investment not to work that's 3% of 450

trillion that's like 10 to 15 trillion

of entropy of chaos every year so the

big idea is Bitcoin is just here the

money is just running from the 20th

century to the 21st century it's moving

from physical space to cyberspace it's

moving from the finance space to the

digital economy the analog to the

digital what we're saying is sometimes

the most lucrative thing you can do is

do nothing that is to say I'll give you

an example you have a billion dollars

you're an Africa and I tell you you can

go and invest in anything in Africa you

got a hold it for 30 years I'll give you

a thousand guys to analyze everything or

you can buy a billion dollars of Bitcoin

and you're like well the billion dollars

of Bitcoin is doing nothing I'm like

yeah you're keeping the billion dollars

forever and you're doing nothing the

billion dollars invested in Africa is

I'm taking ayp risk I'm taking South I'm

taking zomia central Africa risk I'm

taking I'm taking Nigeria risk I'm

taking risk on that ranch so most of the

time people have to take risks and then

they got to worry about it Bitcoin is is

risk Stripped Away from the capital and

and inflation Stripped Away from the

capital so when I evaluate any

investment my view is okay well is it

going to give me a risk-free 29% AR by

the way coming back to that it's like

60% ARR collapsing down to like 20% over

21 years and the average works out to

29% and the assumption is the the dollar

supply keeps growing at 78 9% and then

you get an additional gain because we

invent robots and Ai and flying cars and

so so the the actual S&P index is

growing because the US prints more

dollars but it's also growing because we

invent obscenely cool useful things like

the iPhone or like an electric car so

the future is good but at the end of the

day bitcoin's future is just pure

digital capital and and I look at it as

why don't I just keep buying something

going up 29% all I got to do is borrow

the money or raise the money at a cost

of capital less than

29% over 21 years and I you know and

it's it it makes sense for us cuz we're

a pure play right people want us to do

that I mean the people that are short

they want us to be pure play the people

that are along want us to that Mak sense

it's very honest relationship both ways

the guys that want you to fail they want

you to think longterm because they want

you to fail longterm so you're patient

about it so they're going to make money

off you but the guys that are also Pro

you they also want you to be longterm

that you're patient with it and I get

that part uh I guess the question the

part that you explained which was very

simple was this is something anybody can

do it's duplicatable I'm not sharing

anything with you that's complicated Rob

can you go to that one slide that you sh

he shared about Manhattan which I think

is the best one if you can go to the one

with Manhattan where you're breaking

down the um the different ones that he

had it's right there yeah this is the

one

1626 Manhattan can you zoom in a little

bit Rob so I can see it you know what

was it 60 gilders what I'm saying is if

you have a chance to buy Manhattan for

60 gilders in 1626 you should buy it but

what I what I would say which is deeper

is you could buy Manhattan real estate

every decade for 300 years and always

pay more than the previous guy paid and

it would still be a good idea and that's

because it's the greatest city in North

America everybody wants to do business

there there's a limited amount of land

it's on a it's a perfect Rock limited

amount of land so there's never a bad

time to buy Manhattan even if you look

at this though Louisiana we bought it

for 15 million

APR 6.3 payoff 12 trillion California

1848 for 18 million 7.78 trillion Alaska

for 7.2 million in 1867 it's a trillion

78 7.8 you're saying Bitcoin is going to

be 240 trillion in 21

years

yeah yeah just very easily the way you

say it is it's not a big deal to you I

mean the takeaway from that slide is um

this the key to getting rich is by

scarce desirable property pay for it

with Fiat pay I mean how much is a guild

today like pay for it with money you

printed borrow the money but you know we

borrowed the money to pay for Alaska I

mean the country was broke in 1867 we

just fought the Civil War but what did

we do this guy Seward had the vision to

to pren a 7.2 million doll check pay off

the Russians and so number one thing buy

the property number two thing hold it

for a long time right I mean because it

might not feel like much but when you're

compounding over a hundred years or 200

years and so so what all those four have

in common well they're all something you

would want to hold for more than 100

years and so what is bitcoin Bitcoin is

the next Frontier we've already gone as

far west as we can go now we have to go

to cyers space I mean eventually we'll

go to outer space but you know that

we're waiting for upgrades and

propulsion to go to Mars and the

asteroids but between now and then

you go to cyberspace and the real point

is Chinese billionaires Russian

billionaires African billionaires South

American billionaires every company on

the planet would rather have their money

in the US but they can't get it to the

US so where else can I put it I can put

it into the city of Bitcoin I buy

Bitcoin I sell Africa I sell Venezuela I

sell Russia I sell Siberia I sell China

I buy Bitcoin Bitcoin is dig digital

Capital everybody wants it everybody

knows about it no one can steal it from

you and and what's the use case well the

use case is to get rich or stay Rich

which is like half of everything right

the the great irony is people can't

figure out what it's good for it's like

for the last 10,000 years people have

been trying to figure out how to get

money and keep it what it's good for is

the wealth that allows you to power your

family your country your company yeah I

I I saw in an article where you you you

you were suggesting Apple should buy

hundred billion do of of Bitcoin you

said Bill Gates call me if you want to

make the next trillion meaning buy

Bitcoin and then when I saw a number

that just recently came out is that Burk

hathway if I'm not mistaken they're

sitting on 325 billion of cash $325

billion of cash where they're sitting at

if you right there he at $325 billion of

cash are are any of these guys in

communication with you have you spoken

to Bill Gates or Warren Buffett or Tim

Cook any of well I mean I I speak to

anybody uh about this in confidence but

then I never disclose what I say or that

I spoke to them but I do speak to a lot

of uh Mega billionaires and public

companies about it and I make a few

points on this one that that 32 uh 320

billion that is destroying $32 billion a

year they are destroying $3 billion a

month in capital because they're they're

generating a 3% after tax yield at best

and the cost of capital is 15% so take

12% negative real yield on that that is

the cost multiply 30 325 billion times

12% that's what the shareholders are

paying right now for that the second

point I make is if you look at Microsoft

for example mic

98.5% of the equity value of Microsoft

is based on forward expectations of

quarterly earnings

and 1.5% of the value of Microsoft is

based upon tangible liquid assets and

another way to say it is Microsoft is

144 times levered to their quarterly

earnings if they earn three billion a

quarter or or x billion whatever the

number is a quarter it's more than that

I guess but uh you multiply it by 144 x

right and if they miss by a billion it's

144 billion where you you move and the

reason why operating companies are like

that is because the SEC 33 Act and the

SEC 40 act uh required that operating

companies hold no more than 40% of their

liquid assets and securities so normally

that's used treasury bills and treasury

bills as we just showed on that chart

are toxic it's toxic Capital it's poison

you you might as well just inject poison

into your veins right you're you're

you're bleeding 10% of your capital a

year so they don't keep the capital and

Bitcoin is a major uh Revolution because

starting in 2025 you can uh you can

account for Bitcoin on Fair uh on Fair

Value basis which means that Bitcoin is

just as good as treasury bills and it's

a commodity so you can have 100% of your

balance sheet in Bitcoin and what that

means is Microsoft if they just if they

just stopped dividing out their cash

flow and stopped buying back their stock

and they convert it to a Bitcoin buy and

you crank in like a a conservative like

a 21%

assumption like half their cash flow in

Bitcoin you make a trillion dollars over

10 years you know you put all your cash

into Bitcoin you make two to four two to

four trillion dollars for the

shareholders right if burshire did that

no if if Microsoft did it if Microsoft

if burshire did it they would make more

right I mean they've got Inc if they

flipped that you know put three 00

billion into Bitcoin and grow 21% you're

generating $60 billion a year of

investment income Michael how much how

much do you co call like meaning how

much do do clients call you versus you

out call them are you also contact me

okay like I'm not I'm not out there like

I I I'm not out there uh trying to get

in the doors to pitch this I just do it

as a public service I mean my my day job

is I focus on micro strategy and our

Capital markets activity and you know

we're going to do an equity or a debt

raise or something and then uh my my

copious Freight time I advocate and

educate on bitcoin and then as a result

of that you know I've got 3.7 million

followers so I get a lot of people a lot

of inbound people I talk to people like

similar scientific you know where where

the CEO calls me and says I want to talk

about what you did explain it or and

I'll get inbound calls from people that

want to be on a Bitcoin stand and I'll

explain what we did and how we did it

and sometimes I'll brief the board of

directors or the officers and

directors but how often are those calls

Prime Ministers or presidents of

countries sometimes it's politicians

it's sometimes it's Governors sometimes

it's Senators sometimes it's congressmen

sometimes

it'ses and a lot of you know I guess I

guess I'm asking a question is like I

wonder if if you would be you know uh

open to the idea or would it even be

that way because I think in this space

if you were to call somebody at Burk sh

and say hey guys can I come can we spend

an hour together can we get 30 minutes

together to talk to you about this you

know to see what that would look like I

wonder what that conversation would look

like would you and Buffett if you sat

across from each other present this to

them I'd be want to bet you that if I

had an hour alone with Buffett in a calm

environment I'd walk out and he would

say this Bitcoin think a pretty good

idea Charlie would have liked it we're

going to buy some have you made the co

call I have not why not because because

bitcoin's on a need to know basis and

people have to need they have to feel

like they need to understand it like

they've got a problem in order to have

an open mind and if they don't if if

they don't acknowledge they have a

problem they don't have an open mind and

they take a conventional view toward the

world it's like uh the people with a

with a strong corporate View and a

healthy company and a strong conviction

of their company they don't have an open

mind to a profound paradigm shift they

don't they don't want to embrace that

idea maybe the call to Buffett could be

seen as a public service and you want to

be a public servant so if you were to

make that public service phone call and

you guys sat down and spoke and you went

to Omaha and all of a sudden he comes

out and says you know uh We've made a

decision to buy $100 billion of Bitcoin

after my conversation with Michael

sailor I think that's a public service I

I will say for the record I'm happy to

go visit anybody that has a hundred

billion do of cash that's sitting and

and burning $10 billion a shareholder

value a year I will go visit you and and

I will uh I will provide you with all of

the information you need in order to be

convinced that you should flip to the

Bitcoin standard he's got 325 billion of

it but by the way when I looked at the

numbers with you guys you got roughly

what is it 331,000 if I'm not mistaken

is that how many it is 331,000 Bitcoins

right as of this morning and I saw that

black rock their Bitcoin trust the ibit

uh uh I share has roughly 47

71328 as of November 15 which is 2.2%

yeah they're ahead of us I'm jealous so

but here's the question I'm asking if

they have 471 which is roughly 2.2% of

all Bitcoin you got 331 which is roughly

1.5% of all Bitcoin right neither one of

you guys are selling so 4% is gone okay

of the 21 million shares many times

you'll hear that 3 million of it people

are not going to get access to right

whatever reason 18.5 million give or

take so let's just say 18 million so

there's another 3 million gone there so

you have yours they have theirs so let's

just say three 17 million and then

you've also brought up the idea of what

it I think the US government right now

if I'm not mistaken holds 183,000

Bitcoins at 12 billion right if I'm not

mistaken 1883 Bitcoin ,000 Bitcoins at1

billion I think you've proposed the

president to buy a uh a a a million

shares of Bitcoin a million Bitcoins

which would be roughly 90 billion and if

they wanted to go to the highest level

if they would to buy 6 million of it

which be roughly half a trillion dollars

at that point if that happens and others

typically it's a Buy and Hold situation

if it gets to a point that most of it is

locked up what happens to the store

value can you put up this slide with the

with the Bitcoin strategic reserve and

the and the different plans there that's

in that presentation so I mean first of

all it's a Senator lumus Cynthia lumus

has put forth the proposal that the

United States establish a strategic

Bitcoin reserve and it's a it's a

brilliant uh a brilliant idea that she's

presented uh to the Senate and uh I have

a slide in my presentation at the very

end that actually shows it oh we don't

have that one just so you know we don't

have that one okay well well um then

I'll just describe it verbally so

that the the geopolitical logic here is

simple it's go where all the money is

going to go and buy it first and so if

you knew that everybody was going to

move to Manhattan and you could buy 20%

of Manhattan in 1650 it would be a good

idea but maybe more to the point the

British came to the new world and they

grabbed the new world and that's what

created the British Empire so the United

States runs the world's Reserve currency

but Bitcoin is emerging as the world's

Reserve Capital network if you just want

to keep your money forever and and every

everybody in the world loves that idea

I'd like to just keep my money forever

so the smartest thing for the us to do

is to buy up as much of that as they can

so you buy a million coin that's 5% of

the network buy four million coin you

got 20% of the network why not buy 20 25

30% of the network buy if you if you buy

the network you can buy it for for money

which is effectively free in fact you

could just sell the gold swap it to

bitcoin and then as Bitcoin becomes a

200 300 400 trillion dollar asset right

you're sitting on a anywhere from 40 to

80 trillion dollar gain and so the the

logic of this is is pretty clear first

of all all the foreign capital in the

world is going to be drawn into the

Bitcoin Network so if the United States

owns it then that's like the same as the

money coming to the US you're just

drawing capital from Russia from China

from Africa from South America it's

going to come to the US on the Bitcoin

network if the US owns it the second

logic is all the capital from the 20th

century is stampeding into the 21st

century so all the money that was

invested in crappy bonds and decaying

real estate and warehouses falling down

and companies that are going out of

business all that money is going to go

into the Bitcoin Network so you get you

own the 21st century and you know the

third idea here

is right now a lot of people use us

sovereign debt as their Capital asset

which as I just pointed out is minus 5%

every business person knows it's not as

good as the S&P index so if people start

to swap out the treasury bonds and they

start to buy Bitcoin with it then you

would want to own the Bitcoin because

that way you don't have to worry about

people uh replacing the US Treasury

asset with a Bitcoin asset because the

US owns Bitcoin too so this defends the

US Reserve currency status it defends us

economic leadership it it attracts

capital from our enemies it attracts

foreign capital and and it actually lays

in place a a peaceful Equitable solution

to working out our differences with

everybody in the world that's a business

person would appreciate and uh so yeah

like if if you could buy Manhattan for

free with 60 gilders or some glass beads

or something and you knew that it was

the best port in North America and one

day all of Europe's going to come and do

business North America it would be the

best investment

going yeah I mean if if again if H have

are you in in communication would Trump

do you guys speak often or no you know

like I I couldn't tell you if I no I'm

not even talking about you like I talk I

talked to a lot of people in confidence

about this but maybe more to the point

I'm very public I mean the the the

propos you know the presentation of

Bitcoin Nashville that I had had like a

million views and the presentations I've

uploaded the key the keynote I put up

last week is like half a million viewers

online so everybody in the industry

knows what I think that's a difference

because there is that and then there is

the conversation where you know if

there's a relationship for somebody to

be in someone's ear for example you know

musk is in there they're doing things

together right so what is that or

organization that they build is called

Doge right the part Department of

governmental efficiency if I'm not

mistaken something like that right so

how did that come about well it's

probably because musk is in Trump's ear

and Trump is always looking for smart

people around them that are given ideas

I'm asking a question because I'm

wondering if somebody like you is in his

in his ear well he's got a lot of smart

people around him and I'm talking to all

those people okay so in other words the

answer is directly or indirectly yes is

kind of what it looks like I would say

that okay I like that I'll take that I

mean you know whatever the audience

however the audience wants to process it

uh they can in regards to when you see

companies like Black Rock them getting

into it yourself you getting into it um

you know when black crck got into it it

was a market shift was it was it was

almost like a level of validation where

the Market's like wait a minute who got

into it a Critic somebody that wasn't

for it they're flipping they're not

buying yeah you know we were wrong about

it and we're doing this right how many

the stories that are public again I'm

not talking private stories how many of

these stories are public Michael that

people who were fully against it are now

coming around and saying no we have to

add this to our you know to our

portfolio I I mean I think Larry thinker

black rock is by far the most compelling

spokesperson for the Bitcoin movement

and he and he is he kind of epitomizes

the intellectual Journey which is a

successful Finance year first hears

about it and hears about all the uh

negative things and and good financiers

they go through the checklist of what

are the 100 risk factors right because

if you're really good at Finance you can

tick off all 100 risk factors so you do

the check you think about it and you

think well you know kind of scary I'm

going to hold off on it for a bit and

you're skeptical I was skeptical in

2013 he was skeptical but uh at some

point if you're around it enough if

there's a need if you have a need to

know maybe you get pushed and you

realize I need to open my mind and I

need to embrace a new idea find a new

idea for growth maybe it's defensive

maybe it's a growth initiative and then

sometimes when a critical mass of people

that you respect begin to speak with you

about it then you open your mind and and

then you take the position that this is

actually a new profound revolutionary

thing it's digital capital I

misunderstood it before I was wrong I

see a place for it in the world um I you

know we have this saying which is

everybody's against Bitcoin before

they're for it every everybody is

against Bitcoin before they're for it

and so yeah it's not it's not unique uh

it's pretty common it it's like one hour

to deny you know after after 10 hours

you know you're a Trader it's like well

it's an asset I'll buy it cheap and sell

it when it's too expensive after you

know a 100 hours you know you you start

to move to be more of an investor like

you know maybe this is a good investment

like like apple or Facebook and after a

thousand hours you're a maximalist

you're like actually this is an ethical

good this is freedom and economic and

property rights to 8 billion people this

is a chance for 400 million companies to

capitalize on an asset which isn't toxic