Michael Saylor Interview: Bitcoin Regulation, Volatility, and Market Structure

hey everybody welcome back to another

very special episode of the block where

intelligence podcast this week we have

an extremely special guest michael

saylor who doesn't even really need an

introduction at this point as well as

this week mason joppa our ceo will be

co-hosting the conversation mr sailor

thank you so much for your time happy to

have you on how are you doing

looking forward to it

awesome um i just wanted to first start

with like are you doing anything for the

holidays

bitcoin and chill

nice

giving the gift of bitcoin to everybody

netflix and

looking forward to a comfortable holiday

season

i first wanted to start with like what

did you think about the hearing last

week uh with sbf and brian brooks um i

forgot for the spokeswoman um

the

from from coinbase um what did you think

of that whole hearing like what were

kind of the key takeaways from that from

your perspective and uh did you think it

was kind of the you know beneficial

thing for the space

i think there's a lot of support for the

entire crypto industry in uh

in congress in the house and i think

it's pretty clear there's a lot of

political support for

uh for the crypto economy that's the

number one takeaway it was a fairly

friendly hearing uh to my mind

and it just reinforced my views on

regulation in general

which are

i mean every everybody knows we need

stable coins and stable coins will be

welcomed into the ecosystem but the

preference the preference of the

regulators is insured banks

the politicians are a bit more flexible

i think they would

they'd be happy to

allow a few other on-ramps but i mean at

the end of the day it's going to be some

sort of public

vehicle where you have um

transparency and disclosure and

licensing of the stablecoin

issuers and there's a little bit of

tug-of-war about whether it'll be only

fdic or it'll be

state chartered

state chartered banks and money transfer

agents or some other public

uh public organization

if they're deemed as securities right

then the then the lowest

the lowest plateau for a security would

be

you got to make a disclosure of um of

the risk related to the uh to the

ownership of the securities

and that would be a lower threshold

requiring an fdic banked issue a

stablecoin is the highest threshold i

think

with regard to you know everything else

you know it's uh

defy security tokens and the like i i

didn't really sense a lot of hostility

from the politicians with regard to

anything as far as i could see

and as i've said before i really think

the big winner is bitcoin in all these

because the one thing that's unsaid

that's that's yet said

is there really isn't any controversy

around

the status of bitcoin as digital

property

the status of bitcoin is a property not

a security

bitcoin is not a currency it's not a

security

it is property

uh it is not um

and it is not in and of itself a

centralized entity

everything else in the ecosystem either

looks like a currency and it gets

regulated you know if it's currency like

tether or circle

right then uh

then there's we're either going to

regulate it like a security and you're

going to have to be a public company and

you're going to have to make full

disclosures on a quarterly basis that's

or like a mutual fund that's the best

you can hope for

and the more extreme is you need an fdic

charter license right and then the

debate will be it can it be a state bank

or can it be a federally chartered bank

so

so we know that about stable coins um

with regard to all the defy and the

security tokens i mean they all look

like their securities and now there's a

tossing about whether there should be

light securities regulation or heavier

securities

guidelines and

it's uh it's unclear they didn't right

define they didn't decide anything there

uh what they

what they did uh kind of just generally

all you uniformly agree on is

bitcoin is property not to be regis not

to be regulated by the sec

or the treasury

or the cftc

in any way other than

just seeing ordinary uh customary and

ordinary

expectations around

transfer taxes proper you know a capital

gains taxes and

and classic

asset transfer

disclosures at some level

so

that's my takeaway i mean generally i

don't know how you could be anything

other than bullish about

about the entire asset class when you

watch that

if you're a bitcoiner

sure and what are your thoughts about

kind of the evolution of regulation

around bitcoin moving forward um and

then i guess like kind of a um you know

jam pack like

a side of that question as well is like

what do you think about the trade-offs

between sovereignty and regulation

because obviously regulation is

something that we're going to have to

face moving forward with the asset class

but obviously kind of the you know

sovereign individual ethos of bitcoin is

very at the you know

heart of a lot of the hardcore hoddlers

of the asset so what do you kind of

think about some of the uh kind of

sacrifices that will have to be made in

that sense moving forward

um well first of all i think that all

the regulatory uncertainty right now in

the political climate revolves around

crypto exchanges stable coins

and uh security tokens and d5 exchanges

and all the yield products and and all

the

advanced applications

right that's where the regulatory

uncertainty is right all the all the

back and forth

about what'll happen and when it will

happen really relates to digital

securities digital exchanges

digital

currencies

bitcoin's digital property there aren't

there we're not really having much in

the way of serious debates around that

like no one's questioning whether you

can take uh personal custody of your

bitcoin

right that's not on the table

and so

what what i think in general about the

crypto industry is there's

there's 20 or 30 pretty powerful

uh regulatory regimes

you know japan korea china

they're all going back and forth and

they have different various degrees of

view on this and there's going to be a

lot of regulatory intervention in the

crypto economy in general around otc

trading

can you trade with leverage

can you know can you can you have a 20

to 1 margin loan can i can i trade uh

without a tax disclosure

what are the tax disclosures can i trade

the security token without a securities

disclosure all that's going to go on for

the next three to five years i think

that that's and if you're invested in

any of those things if

if you're either in the business of it

or you're issuing one or you're owning

them

then i think

it's

it's an uncertain regime it's very risky

very complicated

and uh and

there's it's not clear what the answer

will be other than the fact that the u.s

will be probably the driver and whatever

whatever the us decides

treasury sec cftc that will probably

drive 80 percent of the direction of the

rest of the world but not a hundred

percent

there's always you know there's always

going to be a bit of

diverse diversity there and views

now with regard to bitcoin and and

property rights in general

my view there is i just i think

bitcoiners angst a lot about this more

than they need to

there's like 750 trillion dollars of

property in this world that's owned by

non-bitcoin people

that have lesser rights

than

the uh

the worst case for bitcoin

like like if you conceive of try to

figure out what is the worst case for

bitcoin over the next decade

the worst case for bitcoin might be

right now as far as i can see it's like

if you take custody of all your bitcoin

off the exchange you have to admit that

you took it

okay that that's like you have to say i

wired

20 bitcoin

to myself

okay and there's a disclosure that's the

worst case

and now you have the bitcoin and you

could have it any of a hundred thousand

counterparties you can send it anywhere

in 30 minutes and you've got it on a

hardware device or you've got it on any

device okay now i want you to think

about that worst case

and now i want you to think about the

best case

for the equivalent amount of gold silver

property

equity apple stock

government bonds corporate bonds

collectibles art

now tell me is there anything else on

earth

that you would rather be holding

than bitcoin

that you admitted

to the government that you hold

i mean try making your uh building in

the middle of manhattan disappear in a

boating accident

right that's a good idea you know what i

mean it's not happening so i think that

by the way try making your yacht

disappear in a boating accident

okay the point really is i think that

bitcoin the bitcoin community is very

smart

they're very smart and they're very

paranoid and to paraphrase andy grove

only the paranoid survive that's good

that's why i love them i love them i

love all the bitcoins right and i i love

the hodlers and and i really appreciate

all the thought that goes into

uh defending the network defending the

asset class but

i think from a practical point of view

right the conclusion you come to is

every other piece of property everything

else in the crypto ecosystem everything

in the non-crypto ecosystem is inferior

to hold under any

possible outcome than bitcoin is right

now so the answer is you ought to just

buy bitcoin you ought to hold bitcoin

you ought to tell everybody else hold

bitcoin and then when you consider

uh

you know how do you feel about someone

you know all these things well i mean

the answer is

this is a twisty one you know like um

it turns out that you can fight really

really hard uh take the extreme

anarchist libertarian point of view to

protect all six thousand five hundred

cryptos

right they're sh yeah they're all they

all should i can i should be able to

create my own dogecoin yo-yo coin it's a

currency that's a privacy coin that's a

security that gives yield that i can

send to anybody right that's the extreme

libertarian view you could take that

view

to protect bitcoin on the other hand you

might be hurting yourself

because

if all those things disappeared tomorrow

the money would probably flow into

bitcoin

so so you see it's a very interesting

situation i think

i don't think we have to fear the

government

not right now

like maybe in a decade

if you look at

right now

most of the people concerned about

regulation in the bitcoin community

they're extrapolating from an altcoin

like there's an alt coiner that was

issued by some group of people

that are going and they're running to

the bitcoin community saying you know if

if the sec regulates us as a security or

we can't keep doing what whatever we're

doing then they'll come for you next

well no

i don't think they will they won't come

for us next like

like if someone's running an illegal

boiler room pump and dump scheme to

defraud the general public and the sec

says you got to stop i don't think

that's a threat to bitcoin

right so so i i think that we overreact

and so and we don't need to overreact i

don't really see any initiative

that prevents anybody from owning

bitcoin as digital property

right and i think almost if you cloak

yourself with every other altcoin

you undermine your case for digital

property i don't i don't think you

improve it and i think um

i think

we should just come back to the

observation that the enemy is not the

government the enemy is property

the enemy is alternate property if

there's 750 trillion dollars worth of

money invested in

global equities 300 300 billion in debt

right

120 billion in global equity

300 billion in real estate

all of that stuff has inferior property

rights to bitcoin

so all you have to do is just cheerfully

educate the world as to why they're

building their ranch land their oil well

drilling rights

all of those things all their

intellectual property is inferior to

bitcoin

it's all inferior to bitcoin

right and and uh and with any

within any ecosystem if you're in

venezuela bitcoin is the best property

in venezuela i don't have an opinion

about the government in turkey

bitcoin is the best property in turkey i

don't have to have an opinion about the

government

in argentina bitcoin is the best

property in argentina in the u.s bitcoin

is the best property in the u.s in china

bitcoin is the best property

right now how do you feel about capital

controls wage controls price controls

you know labor controls

political laws religious laws

everybody's got stuff that they could

disagree with

but if you choose to disagree with all

those things right

you're going to be in conflict

with a lot of people that aren't against

bitcoin you're just turning them against

bitcoin right

right like uh you know when you go to

an islamic country right bitcoin is

neither christian nor islamic right like

you don't really want to get into that

when you go to any country

it's not democrat it's not republican

right

it's not this or that

it's just better property than the

alternative property

the only place

i think the only place in the world

where where

a person is pro bitcoin

is in conflict with the government

is in a true communist regime

if you're in a regime

where they where the ethos of the

government is private property or

individual ownership of all property

is illegal

right there's a few right maybe like

north korea cuba

in the uh in the soviet regime in russia

right in theory no one could own

anything

right in that change but but you know

people can own property in china they

can own property in russia there are a

lot of political regimes which are

different as long as it's legal to own

property

then instead of fighting the battle

like instead of saying i want to topple

securities law

or i want to

i want to change the tax code i want to

change the security code

you know i want to change the political

system i just you know instead of

fighting that battle

i think this fight one battle which is

bitcoin is better property than an acre

of land

it's better property than 37 donkeys

it's better property than a lump of gold

right is it legal

to make a decision

to own

a hundred donkeys

instead of a stack of corn instead of an

acre of land instead of

a bitcoin

if it is

then 99

of the solution to our problem

is go find the people that own

oil wells and own natural gas fields and

own farmland and own tall buildings and

cities

and own too many cars and own stuff

and convince them

to sell that stuff or mortgage that

stuff

and buy bitcoin

and and you know how should you do it

well

within the system that you live in

right

respect the laws and respect the culture

of the society you live in

but by all means

don't invest in a hundred donkeys

don't invest in a bar of gold

don't invest

the government

the government doesn't have a law that

says you have to have 100 of your assets

in the local currency

right like there aren't very many

by the way when they get there

that's kind of like getting close to

communism you know so they're it's

possible we'll get to something do you

think we are going there yes i was going

to ask on that oh i don't think we're

going there i think that uh i think that

we spend a lot of time worrying about

that

and i just think it's a waste of time

and energy i think there's there's a lot

of fighting about

like like about who can come up with the

bigger doomsday scenario than the next

person

it's like yeah it's colorful i mean

it'll get you like some engagement on

twitter

but no i i think

again what's what's the total value of

all assets in the united states other

than bitcoin that's called an asset or a

property right

isn't that it depends if we're uh

subtracting out debt from those

from those the point is the debts

included

yeah and there are people that you meet

every day that own the debt

and uh and so

if uh if you're talking to the public

right i think the battle you want to

fight

is to persuade people that

owning a bitcoin is better than owning a

corporate bond

small building

right

just uh

all you're doing is trading up weak

assets for strong assets

i think you know and and leave

leave the politics

like you we can fight over tax right we

can but now you're a politician

like you have an opinion about you know

how the tax system should work that's

that's a political decision

you can fight over currency that's

political decision

you know the irony you know what i've

said before is what's going to happen

as far as i can see is that u.s dollar

is going to run on stable

and when that gets released in size by

an fdic approved bank the stablecoin

business is going to go from 180 billion

to a trillion to 10 trillion

and when that happens

it's going to collapse the currencies of

like 30 countries that will remain

nameless

and when the currencies collapse because

everybody basically sells that local

currency to buy the dollar

wouldn't you rather just have you know

the the mainstream media write stories

about how the state department is

explaining to the ambassador from such

and such that we're sorry that their

citizens have adopted the dollar instead

of the local currency

i mean leave it to the state department

right leave it to the government

right do you really want to be on the

hook like if the choice was

pick a country the us dollarized that

country

or

uh bitcoin

bitcoin eyes that country

well you know the

at the end of the day i mean i think

the the us government can take care of

itself

right they're not going to arrest the

ambassador from from the us when they

call him to to express their discontent

about the fact that the citizens have

dollarized

you you really want to be the ambassador

of bitcoin and show up and say the same

thing

like my point is you're fighting a

battle 20 years or 30 years early

you don't need to fight will we ever get

to the point where there are no nation

states and there's no

no

currencies

that are issued by sovereign powers i

it's not really a debate for the next

decade

like this decade

the debate is

is bitcoin better property than all the

other properties in the world and then

and the answer is yeah

and now the question's just well how do

i buy some

yeah and then and your strategy of uh

taking on

debt or trading your alternate assets

for bitcoin is you know very apparent

what are your thoughts on on

interest-bearing products that are paid

out in native uh particularly those that

are coming out that are

non-custodial right where you can

maintain control of your bitcoin and

maintain your keys and you maintain your

bitcoin currency and you can still

receive interest on that i think that's

super intriguing

but to the to the inverse of the

products that exist now where you have

to

you know store your product with a or

store your your property aka your

bitcoin with a custodian to receive the

interest

do you have any opinions on those

products

yeah well i mean you're describing a lot

of d5 stuff and

my opinion is there's 12 billion dollars

worth of defy hacks in the past two

years

okay

okay so yeah it's a true it's intriguing

but again this is an example of

of i think the perfect becomes the enemy

of the good

in theory it would be nice

if i could take my bitcoin put it into a

decentralized protocol and generate

yield on it

the problem with it is uh technically

it's insecure right you're they're

getting hacked all like three times a

week

right

like every every few days right yeah

hundreds of millions a week okay so

so that's one problem it's a technical

security problem the second problem is

if you understand securities law

then you understand that they're all

securities

okay if you

when you're actually uh you're doing it

with a staking maybe you could come up

with a way to do it with just pure

bitcoin like i mean the closest thing is

almost like getting some yield on a

lightning note or something but

if you could but but all the approaches

people have solved so far with security

tokens and the security the tokens are

securities which means that you have to

issue them pursuant to a registration

statement if you don't it's illegal

not to mention unethical right

so

i mean

again this this takes us back to this

issue which is

you live in in the united states

yeah you can go get a yield

if you're if you're a consumer you can

go get a yield um and you're getting it

from

some

some are you getting it from a bank or

that where it's got a license or are you

getting it from an unlicensed entity

right if it's a security token that's

its own thing that's you know you're

pretty much trading all coins that are

not licensed and that's i think that's

risky in so many different ways not to

mention the fact that there's 10 000 of

them eventually so which one do you want

to hold for a while so that's that's

speculation

uh

if you're actually just posting

collateral into an unlicensed

yield generator

it doesn't have a license you can get a

yield but the problem is they're not

licensed right so you have lots of

regulatory actions

and then you don't the whole point of

the regulators there is

when you give me your money

and i agree to give you six percent

yield

how do i generate the yield

i have to go and i have to loan it out

to some counterparty now what if i loan

it to some counterparty what do they do

they short it in the market

and then what if they're or they hedge

it they sell covered calls or they they

trade in options and what if uh

what if bitcoin trades within a 20 band

well then you get your yield what if it

trades in a 42 brand

ban well then they get forced liquidated

you get wiped out you lose all your

principle the bank fails okay do you

know that

what kind of risk are you taking right

um

you're just investing in a hedge fund

but you're investing in a hedge fund

without understanding the strategy of

the hedge fund so

so the problem with that is that you

know ethically

and legally if i'm going to run a hedge

fund and take money from the public i

have an obligation to file a

registration statement and tell

everybody what kind of risk i'm taking

right i mean that's what every public

company does and that's what every

mutual fund does this is the this is

what i'm going to do with your money to

get to get the yield

okay so fine that's what i'm going to do

if

if you wanted to invest your money in a

yield generating fund and you had that

adequate disclosure then

i don't have a a problem with it i mean

i think that

you've been given

proper disclosure and you bought a

security

and you've taken securities risk

now the problem of course is

you bought a security but there was no

securities disclosure so you're sitting

in this gray zone where technically it

is illegal and the regulators could shut

it down and seize the asset right so

if you're sitting in the middle of that

operation as in do i want to be the

investor waiting to see

how that gets wrapped up

do i want to be on the other side that's

that's just a gray zone

so i wouldn't uh pursue it now i get uh

i get the opposite point of view which

is well i can give my money to jp morgan

and they give me 20 basis points

yeah i get it you've got this really

difficult situation right you have a you

have um one safe zone i can either hold

dollars at no yield or i can all bitcoin

at no yield those are both safe havens

right

it's well understood that you can own

own currency at an fdic

insured bank and it's understood you can

own digital property those are two

obvious clear zones these other zones

you know can i own a stable coin issued

by a non-fdic insured institution and

put it into some contract with some

exchange where they give me some yield

but the exchange doesn't have a license

it's based on a security token that's

not

issued pursuant to securities law

you know i'm trusting a lot of

counterparties here

but i'm getting a yield right

right you're altcoining everyone

so i like uh

i don't think it's worth the risk right

now because the theoretical yield on

digital property is quite high right

it's a theory i mean

still the 10-year yield on bitcoin is

150 percent even the one-year yield

right now is a hundred percent right so

if you're chasing after five percent

yield or 10 yield

let's say let's say i'm giving you 10

yield you're chasing after another 10

but risking everything and risking a lot

you know do you really want to risk

everything to chase after 10 percent

i

i don't i think that again like there's

there is a very um

there's an ideological

aspect to bitcoin non-custodial

non-custodial is really important for

one thing for the property the

underlying bitcoin token

but here's here's another point i'd make

the

the most important innovation in the

century right the thing that's like

maybe the most important innovation in

property in 5 000 years is bitcoin

it's non-custodial decentralized digital

property

that's the innovation

everybody keeps trying to re reapply

this innovation to every other layer

like

80 percent of the value took place when

we just created the bitcoin if

a centralized entity

held

the decentralized property

you would have a profound advance

forward so for example if if jp morgan

went and they bought a million bitcoin

tomorrow

you would have a decentralized property

held by a centralized entity

the price of bitcoin would go to 10

million a coin

and every hodler right every bitcoiner

with bitcoin and coal storage everywhere

in the world would have bitcoin worth 10

now

there's gonna be a hundred thousand

platforms a hundred million companies

there's ten thousand decentralized

crypto currencies or clock i mean things

that people are trying to represent is

decentralized there's all sorts of

non-custodial this any other thing

does any of it matter

no

nothing matters there's only one thing

in the world that matters which is

bitcoin

right if a government if the government

of russia or the government of saudi

arabia went and decided to buy a million

bitcoin or a hundred thousand bitcoin

five hundred thousand bitcoin if uh if

apple did

you see the whole point is we created a

stable point we created property in

cyberspace for the first time in the

history of the human race now

there's a lot of non-custodial

decentralized things you can do with it

and there many of them are good like if

you're in a hostile regime like if you

live in a communist regime and they're

going to murder you because you have

property then you need peer-to-peer

non-custodial wallets i get it

right

in cuba or north korea

where the government thinks you should

lose your life and lose your freedom

should you own anything

then you need it

but uh

if you live in the united states where

where you have property rights

and you have a legal right to own things

like do you still need all these

non-custodial do you need 10 000

non-custodial crypto networks and

non-custodial everything under the sun

do you need non-custodial decentralized

yield generally do you need

decentralized insurance and

decentralized banking and decentralized

nft this that and the other thing and

it's like and my answer is no

like yeah there there's like this

there's this fascination with it

it's like uh you got a square peg or

people came up with like a

a hammer so everything's a nail

and they just keep they want to use the

hammer on everything

but really there's one thing

which is

the solution to half the problems on

earth one thing bitcoin

and then the next hundred thousand

things is going to be the answer to five

percent of the problems on earth but you

know what the problem is

the next hundred thousand things are

going to be non-compliant

so you you have one thing which is

compliant in in uh the world

in non-com in the socialist and the

capitalist world and a world of property

rights

bitcoin is compliant it is legal to own

property

now

is it legal you know to do d5

you know yield generation

you know credit default swaps on

decentralized exchanges

you know how about do uh triple

anonymous wash transactions on nfts that

i sold to myself six times with leverage

i mean none of that stuff is legal right

but you know maybe it's legal somewhere

in cyberspace but let's just use the

word compliant it's just you've just

every single thing you're trying to do

when you're trying to d if you're trying

to de-materialize insurance and banking

and art

you know i mean that's what this is

right nft is dematerialized art right

and d5 is dematerialized you know

banking and dematerialized exchanges and

when you're trying to dematerialize all

this other stuff

you're tripping over all these

compliance rails

and uh

and i think that i think the cognitive

mistake

and i i wish i could come up with a

better way to explain it to people the

cognitive mistake that the mistake that

people keep making over and over and

over again

is they think

that because bitcoin needs to be

decentralized

everything that touches it

needs to be decentralized as well

and that and that second thing is that's

just an error

like uh

centralized governments

right uh compliant governments uh public

investors public companies

public institutions centralized agencies

that have uh that are custodial

they all can benefit from bitcoin and

they and all of their engagement

benefits

bitcoin

like this this issue with non-custodial

at the end of the day you're the

custodian

like so i mean there's no such thing

really as non-custodial because a family

the patriarch of the family becomes the

and the beneficiaries are all the family

members so ultimately

you know until we get down to a world of

8 billion individuals that don't trust

each other

right there's a custodian somewhere

and

and uh

it's not a problem it really isn't

it's not a pro there's one thing that

needs to be non-custodial and the one

thing is bitcoin

like once you've created that one thing

everything else

like

like you want to generate yield well i

mean the truth is

a company fidelity coinbase jp morgan

goldman sachs

said they could all go to the sec and

they could create a bitcoin yield fund

fidelity could create a bitcoin yield

fund right now anybody in the mutual

fund business

could go and create a bitcoin eel fund

where they basically file a registration

statement and they say look we're going

to hold bitcoin we're going to sell the

volatility on bitcoin we're going to

sell out of the money calls

and we're going to generate effectively

12 yield

and we're going to give up all the

upside over 40 percent and maybe we're

going to color it or not color it so the

volatility is going to go from 80 volt

to 40 volt and the yield is going to go

from zero

to

eight percent

and over time probably your principal

will appreciate it 30 a year instead of

60 a year

by the way would i buy it no

right because i'd rather have 60 a year

tax deferred

then 30 a year tax deferred and 12

a year taxable because you would end up

in california paying 52 percent of the

yield

so yeah work out in your head right what

do you get you got 35 percent after tax

instead of 60 after tax

and who benefited whoever set up the

mutual fund they scrape one percent fee

or some hedge fund scrapes 2 and twenty

you know two and twenties two percent

management fee twenty percent of the

upside any number of hedge funds will be

happy to basically take two percent of

your principal twenty percent of the

gains and give you a yield fund or yield

vehicle on top of bitcoin

and they could and you and you can do it

in a compliant ethical legal fashion

in the us nothing stopping you from

buying that or getting that product

right and the rules are different in

every other country

and maybe in china the rules are

different again

but you know last i checked you know

bridgewater capital invest in china you

know like ray dalios on television

talking about

so

all of these things are possible i

i just think

like this is and this is a it sounds

like a bitcoin maximus position but it

isn't quite it's like

i think that the revolutionary

innovation

is digital property in the form of btc

and now

if you want to go do things

the right way to think of it is pair

fidelity with bitcoin and pair

apple with bitcoin and care and pair a

bank with bitcoin and pair

everything on earth

with bitcoin

everything

your insurance po do you have

decentralized non-custodial life

insurance right now

no

do you want it

when you die who when when they don't

pay your insurance plan when you die who

do your you know

you know you've got an insurance policy

from an anonymous person on twitter and

there's a rug poll and you don't collect

on the policy and who do you complain to

people don't really want

a non-custodial life insurance policy in

the united states at least

there a political sentiment for that if

i walked down the street

and i asked a hundred people would you

like to buy your food you know from

someone you don't know would you like to

buy your life insurance from someone you

don't know

would you like

you know would you figure it out

people are kind of comfortable doing

business with people they know

do you have anxiety about the government

yeah sure i do do you have anxiety about

the future yeah sure i do

but would you like to have uh

cities and countries and companies i

think so

so

i think that you got some money you have

an opportunity to buy bitcoin you want

to invest in something invest in a

company that's using bitcoin right

you want to live in a country live in a

country that lets you own bitcoin

you want to fix the thing

put some bitcoin in it

like that's

that's a very straightforward view

here's the other view

you want to fix your country let's make

it a dao

let's issue a cup you want to fix your

city let's let's create a city token

let's you want to fix your insurance

policy let's create and you know a defy

insurance thing in cyberspace with

nobody running it

you know like i mean it's you know let's

apply non-custodial decentralized

principles here's the problem you know

as far as i can see like there's been

one successful project called bitcoin

right

now uh there's 6 500 cryptos

name the next 12 that are property right

we can have a debate bitcoin forks but

but you know they would

they would like half the time they might

or might not be able to make the case

now you have 6 000 cryptos that are

projects but but they use the word

project but that's interchangeable with

it's really company

it's a project is venture right they're

all just venture

venture capital investments with project

teams and

in some cases they converted their

company to a foundation

you know but a foundation is a company

you know they're

at the end of the day it's

you know no one's figured out

how to actually do this and and for good

reason

if i wanted to sell life insurance in a

decentralized non-custodial fashion

have you read all the life insurance

laws in every state of the united states

do you know how many laws there are