Michael Saylor To Trish: Bitcoin Will Hit $13 Million in THIS Day

Bitcoin all right

Bitcoin now before you guys are like all

I just wanted to you know there there's

I want to go to Donald Trump talking

about Bitcoin and then I want to go to

my Michael sailor interview because he

is just he's like the Elon Musk okay of

Bitcoin or or the Donald Trump of

Bitcoin if you would he's really out in

front of this issue and he says some

remarkable stuff including his belief

that it's going to 13 million by the

year 2045 so we're going to get to that

but first you know you think about

Bitcoin and you think about the US

dollar and the concern about the dollar

and I have concerns I have concerns that

if we don't Embrace some kind of digital

cash that actually works that you know

what everybody else will and then the US

is Left Behind and we don't enjoy the

kind of hegemonic status that we've had

it's very complicated Michael sailor

refers to it as the perfect money we'll

talk about it in a second but first

watch Donald Trump here talking Bitcoin

as part of our effort to provide

regulatory Clarity we will create a

framework to enable the safe responsible

expansion of staple stable

coins allowing us to extend the

dominance of the US dollar to New

Frontiers all around the world America

will be richer the world will be better

and there will be billions and billions

of people brought into crypto economy

and storing their Savings in Bitcoin

those who say that Bitcoin is a threat

to the dollar have the story exactly

backwards I believe it is exactly

backwards Bitcoin is not threatening the

dollar the behavior of the current US

government is really threatening the

dollar the danger to our financial

future does not come from crypto it

comes from Washington

DC yeah I think there's something to

that right go back to the Mt money

supply anyway I'm I'm really excited to

show you this I sat down yesterday

afternoon with Michael sailor he's like

as big a deal as you're going to get in

the Bitcoin community and I was blown

away absolutely positively Blown Away by

what I heard and I want to

share I'm really thrilled to welcome our

next guest on the program today none

other than Michael sailor who is I would

say you know you you've kind of become

like the Godfather of the Bitcoin

industry you sort of single-handedly

have made this something very real and

something that's going to move us into

the future and and you just have an

incredible background I just want to

point out for those that don't know

Michael he was at MIT had a double

degree in none other than Aeronautics

and astronautics as well as science

technology and society and uh in his

free time he managed to play guitar in a

rock band and fly gliders so truly a

real Renaissance person uh he happened

to be there as well on a full Air Force

Reserve officer training Corp

scholarship there at MIT you're the

whole package and now you've taken your

company to levels that I think people

probably never dreamed of you were one

of those folks back in the day that

thought Bitcoin was nothing was some

kind of pipe dream

nonsense and now you're betting your

whole future and your company's future

on it so tell us tell us a a little bit

about why you made that decision in

summer of

2020 you know one of the rules of

Bitcoin is that uh bitcoin's on a need

to know basis H you have to need to know

about Bitcoin before you'll open your

mind to it it's a paradigm shift and and

um I would refer to it as digital energy

but if you think about it uh the first

time we figured out how to channel

energy and

cyberspace uh it's just as profound as

if you went to somebody in 1800 and said

you know one day we're going to have

this clean silent electricity and you're

not going to be able to see it or touch

it but it's going to power every single

machine in your factory and it's going

to power everything in your house and

you would think you know I don't get it

I don't need it and until someone shows

you what it can do and until you get to

the point where you do need it you're

not going to be you're not going to

embrace a new form of energy so micro

strategy didn't really need Bitcoin

until

2020 and then during the covid lockdown

crisis we realized that all of our

Capital was a kind of a melting Ice Cube

we had a lot of money that was

generating 0% interest losing 15 to 20%

of its value a year so we had a need to

know and then we started thinking maybe

there's something else we can invest

this money in and we discovered Bitcoin

which I think is digital capital I mean

the most powerful application of digital

energy is capital so we needed it we

found it uh we embraced it and uh we

become the largest public holder of

Bitcoin I know you tweeted out something

years earlier saying you know this is

this is really nothing to to write home

about and and you thought it was just

kind of a scheme and all of a sudden you

realized maybe because of 2020 right

that this actually was the future you

know what what what I say is everybody's

against Bitcoin before they're for it

and your first reaction is always to be

skeptical and after an hour you're not

quite sure but after 10 hours you think

maybe there's an asset there but you

don't know how you feel about it and

after about a 100 hours you start

thinking this is like a a digital

monetary Network this is like Facebook

for money and so I would say I started

skeptical and then uh because I had a

need to figure it out I became a

Believer you you talked about it as a

digital asset so where is its real value

I mean sort of you know there there's a

lot of philosophical takes on this but

how is it that it comes to have real

value well so first of all what Satoshi

discovered was how I send something of

value between two two uh two different

individuals without a trusted

intermediary so that's known as solving

the double spend problem but if I want

to send a million dollars from me to you

without a bank Satoshi solved that but

inadvertently when Satoshi solved that

problem Satoshi figured out not just how

to send a million dollars from New York

to Tokyo without an intermediary but how

to send a million dollars forward in

time 30 years without an intermediary if

you can if you can uh transfer something

without an intermediary then you can

store something without an intermediary

so the killer app of Bitcoin is the

store of value in cyers space and what's

that worth there's about $900 trillion

dollars worth of wealth in the world and

about half of it is used uh for its

utility value people buy assets for

their utility they buy houses and

buildings and and boats and planes and

and pieces of art because they want to

use them look at them but the other half

of that wealth is is assets that are

purchased as a long-term capital

investment or as a store of value so$

450 trillion doll of the world is

long-term capital and so when I want to

if I take you and I drop you in Africa

and I say here take a hundred million

doll buy anything you want anywhere in

Africa but you got to keep it for 30

years and uh you know then I say

or you could have the same hundred

million invested in the US most people

would say well that's a no-brainer I'm

GNA keep the money in the US there's

nothing I want in Africa that's as

valuable as property in the US um but

what if you can't have property in the

US then what if your choice is I can

have 100 million worth of bitcoin in

cyberspace if I I can have 100 million

worth of digital property or I can have

a 100 million worth of land in any

country in Africa or any building or any

company or any bond or any currency in

Africa and the answer when you think

about it is there's nothing you want in

Africa that that's better than having

digital property in cyberspace and

there's certainly no place where you're

going to trust your money or your assets

for 30 years much less a hundred years

much less a thousand years so when you

start to ask the question where do the

eight billion people on the planet and

what are the 300 million corporations on

the planet where are they going to store

their capital if they don't have

recourse to the United States and you

know property on the Upper East Side the

conclusion you come to is I'm going to

put my money in cyberspace and so

bitcoin's real use is it's digital

property in cyber space it is cyber

Manhattan it is uh a place where you can

store your capital and give it to your

great-grandchildren and you know that

you're not going to be taking risk

against a bank as a counterparty or

another company or country or currency

or culture when you don't want to take

risk when you don't want to make an

investment uh when you don't want to bet

on the direction of the Commodities

Market when you just want to store some

money for a hundred years and forget

about it well you put it in the safest

Bank in the universe quick reminder to

go over to 76 research our financial

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first two months 76 research.com

I'll see you there and Bitcoin is okay

you sa C I have to jump in with the

question that you know everybody worries

about right what if it gets hacked and

and I know I know before everybody jumps

on me like it's pretty much not hackable

but you know we're we're living in

different times and there's all kinds of

crazy AI productivity

gains is it is it really and

truly

safe well um the question that you're

asking is the same question that I had

to ask ask is the fiduciary responsible

for $500 million of my shareholders

money back in 2020 I said before I

invest in this is uh is it going to be

hacked is it going to be banned is it

going to be copied those are the big

three questions and it's hard to know

that in the first year of the network

but we're now approaching year 16 it'll

be the 16th anniversary of the network

on Halloween that's the 16th anniversary

the white paper that is and um by the

way not everybody knows that but you

know Satoshi basically came up with this

we don't really know if Satoshi was a

real person I'd be curious to get your

thoughts on that um or whether it was a

group of people but amazing amazing

obviously Discovery

continue so after 16 years it has been

copied 10,000 times they all failed it's

the winner right it's the network that

all the smart rich people in the world

chose it's the bank in cyers space if

you show up in a city and there's 10,000

Banks and you have a bunch of money and

the question is which bank should you

put your money in you go find every

smart rich person that you know in the

city and you say hey where do you put

your money and if they all put their

money in One Bank you're probably not

going to put your money in a bank that's

a million times smaller than them that

only has poor stupid people you know so

so it was copied it's the winner it's it

is the bank that's of choice of the of

the smart money in the world and uh will

it be banned you couldn't know that for

15 years but the IRS legitimized it its

property in

2014 uh the SEC approved a host of

Bitcoin ETFs in January of

2024 today it's held by nearly a 100

publicly traded companies every major uh

regulator has has uh certified it as a

commodity not a security that was a

judgment by the the former head of the

SEC under Trump and that's the Judgment

of the current head of the SEC Gary

gendler so you know it's not getting

banned and that takes us to the third

question is will it be hacked and uh

satoshi's got about 70 billion dollar

and a bunch of wallets that any hacker

could have if they could crack the code

and it's been there for 16 years and

nobody's cracked the code uh it hasn't

been hacked and the reason it hasn't

been hacked is because it's defended by

a wall of digital energy about 730 ex

aash that's more computer power than all

of the computers at Amazon or Microsoft

or apple could you know working jointly

together could generate so it is the

strongest the strongest uh wall of

computer power in the world stronger

than any nation state can muster

stronger than any company can muster and

that computing power combined with the

fact that

there's approximately $800 billion

dollars of actual money deposited in

this bank over the past 15 years

combined with hundreds of millions of

holders combined with um about almost 20

gigawatts of electricity which is like

20 full-on nuclear reactors 20 gaws is

more electrical energy or or more uh

pure energy than drives the entire US

Navy that's how much power it is so

bitcoin's really defended by power a lot

of power in political economic digital

and electrical form and there's no way

to finesse it you can't kind of spoof it

or trick it you just need 10 times as

much computing power as exists on the

surface of the Earth in order to crack

it that's why no one's cracking it how

how do you think I mean you you know a

lot more about this than I I've ever

dreamed of knowing I I'm fascinated by

it I've been fascinated by it since it

first emerged and I remember reporting

on it it was 10 bucks but and now you

know you're looking at 60 some odd

thousand these

days how do you think it got started I

mean do you believe the whole Satoshi

Nakamoto as being one person multiple

people and how do you get yourself

comfortable around it not really

understanding for sure its

Origins there's a dream throughout the

history of the human race of sound money

of money within

something you could trust something that

you could store your life savings in and

not have debased or destroyed or stolen

from you and that sound money took the

form of gold after about 5,000 years and

uh throughout human history you know the

better the better civilizations have

stood on the gold standard and

economists have have always tried to

create the perfect money gold was the

closest thing to perfect money but it

was always imperfect because you could

mine more gold and it's centralized it

was easy to steal gold and it was very

slow to move it would take a year to

move gold so there was this dream in the

economic Community uh of perfect money

and it was impossible to create perfect

money or clean sound money until the

invis of the internet combined with the

invention of public private key

cryptography combined with the invention

of

semiconductors and so Bitcoin represents

the engineering of perfect perfectly

sound

money and it it was only possible once

those three Technologies Advanced and

there was a group of Cipher punks that

were playing with cryptography playing

with the internet and they saw the

development of uh of uh hashing

algorithms like Shaw

256 and the ability to build that into

an application specific

semiconductor and when and they probably

tried this 40 times there were products

like hash cash and digital gold and and

uh bit gold and things like that and the

first 30 or 40 of them failed and then

after about 40 some Bitcoin came along

and Bitcoin learned from the failures of

the 40 before it and it was the first

truly

decentralized uh crypto monetary Network

and it it it was lucky because it just

had the right monetary policy which is

absolute scarcity 21 million and it had

the right frequency a block every 10

minutes the right bandwidth the right

protocols and you know when it was

launched in January 3rd of 2009 did we

know it was perfect no nobody knew it

was perfect in fact it tra it didn't

trade for a year and a half almost and

the first time it was used for

transactions was pizza day around May of

2010 where somebody bought two pieces

with 10,000 Bitcoin so so at that point

you know 10,000 Bitcoin $700 Million

worth of bitcoin was traded for two pizz

yeah and then people thought well maybe

it's something but it's still kind of a

hobby and it took another uh you know

another decade before it wasn't a hobby

well crypto now it comes to life sure

and and you had people going to jail um

you had you know a lot of concern about

the regulation around it uh because you

were able to sort of trade if you would

on that deep dark web and and it was a

currency quote unquote currency used

there and that got some people in a lot

of trouble and then eventually I think

it just kind of kept catching on and

catching on and catching on and it's

something right when you have black rock

and Larry Fink coming out saying I like

this and I'm creating an ETF for it I

mean some people

that are sort of dieh hard Bitcoin folks

might look at that and say I don't want

government involved I don't want

financial markets involved I look at it

and I say I welcome that right because I

want some structure around it I want

some regulation I want to be able to

easily invest in it and not have to go

find a hard wallet somewhere um although

nothing wrong with that too but in other

words that liquidity that say an ETF or

investing in your company and micro

strategy might represent that's worth

something to people

you know I think if you look at it like

fire a lot of people got burned when

they played with fire if you look at it

like electricity a lot of people got

shocked before they figure out how to

handle electricity if you look at the

early automobile people were terrified

of them and then all the sudden in about

15 years everyone loved them even though

a lot of people die on roads every year

driving cars so all of these are new

technologies that are

transformational Bitcoin right now is

spreading very rapidly as digital

capital and it's digitally transforming

the capital markets uh and black rock is

an example of one form micro strategy is

another company digitally transforming

the capital markets and yet still 95% of

the Bitcoin is held in self- custody by

bitcoiners and it's not in in those

traditional fascinating areas so this is

a this is network is spreading

everywhere in the world different it

gets me to your valuation so you got a

pretty a pretty high valuation walk us

through it 13 million a coin is is that

I want to make sure I'm quoting you

right and in the year

20145 walk us through why you think

there's so much appreciation

coming yeah we we created a model which

we uploaded to GitHub it's in the open

source Community it's called Bitcoin 24

you can just Google it and go grab it

it's a Excel spreadsheet and it has

macroeconomic models for the next 21

years a bit coin forecast for 21 years

and then micro models for corporations

and individuals and institutions and

even nation states and once you download

that model you can plug in your own

assumptions about what you think is

going to happen and you can come to your

own conclusions but my assumptions are

uh the US dollar supply is going to

continue to expand about 7% a year and

that is the historic rate of expansion

of dollars for the past hundred years

that's how I arrive at that that's just

how fast the money supply is expanding

if you if you look at

M2 and I think that there'll be

Innovation from AI so some things like

equities will probably grow a little bit

faster because because AI is going to

have a boost to equities I think over

time gradually um technolog is going to

demonetize gold and some of the other

stores of value assets that were used in

the 20th and the 19th century but the

21st century we're going to digitally

transform property and transform gold

into digit

property digital gold okay and uh when

you when you look at uh uh bitcoin's uh

growth over the past 15 years you know

it's it's been growing more than a 100%

a year for the first decade or so and

for the last four years it's been

appreciating about 50% a year in

ARR I think um it's 50% a year in ARR

and it's 50 50 Vol which is like three

and a half three times the volatility of

the S&P and three times the performance

of the S&P index over the next 21 years

I think it will grow it will grow faster

than the S&P and it's going to grow to

the point where it's about 7% of the

world's assets right now it's about 0.1%

of the world's assets and I think that

it will gradually approach but it will

never be as big as the S&P index or

equities it won't never be as big as

real estate but in that world where it

decelerates from 50% down to 20

perish uh it will appreciate from 65 or

70,000 up to 13 million a coin in my

base case and um that uh amounts to

about a 29% ARR on average over the 21

years um and you know when it's half the

size of the S&P it'll still be twice as

volatile probably performing 50% %

better because it's a

247365 asset it's it's subject to Global

chaos and Global Capital flows and it

doesn't have all the risk factors of

property or the risk factors of uh

Equity to hold it

back one of the things that I struggle

with is trying to understand how it is

sort of a safe haven because the way

you're defining it it really is

something that's a store of value that

you can count on through thick and thin

Through Time effectively and yet it's

super volatile and I get like the

Traders love it right because volatility

is your friend but if you're just you

know Mom and Pop investor at home and

you're thinking about all right I have a

little bit and you know I want to be

careful because I you know I'm not

anybody's investment adviser but I and

and I think you got to be cautious and

thoughtful about what you're doing but

if you're like I'm going to try this I'm

going to try this you got to also be

willing to I guess stomach the ups and

downs and my question is at what point

do those ups and downs stop if you're

going to get all the way to 13

million yeah well I mean first of all

bitcoin's like 50 Vol 50 ARR and the S&P

is more like 12 to 14

ARR 14 Vol so if you want 12 Vol 12 AR

you would just buy a diversified Equity

index you'll get 1/4 the return you'll

get 1 14th the

volatility and some people like that if

uh if you're going to buy a Vol asset

first of all you shouldn't buy it unless

you're going to hold it for the long

term like a short period of time to hold

it is four years a middle period of time

is 10 years the Righttime Horizon is the

rest of your life if you if you have

money that you need to give to your

children in four weeks don't buy Bitcoin

with it if you have money you want to

give to your children in 40 years

definitely buy Bitcoin with it in 40

years Bitcoin is going to be worth a lot

more uh in four weeks there's no telling

what'll be worth so think in terms of of

zero to four years is very safe

conventional assets think in terms of

four to 10 years is more like investment

things and think Beyond 10 years is

that's uh that's something I'm buying to

give to my great granddaughter that it's

going to be in the family for ever it's

like the center of London it's been

passed by the royal family of London

down from family to family for thousand

years that you know if you think of it

like that then you'll go into it with

your eyes wide open it's a the

volatility is a feature it's not a bug

the reason it's volatile is because on

Saturday night if you panic and you

needed to raise a million dollars by

selling a million dollars or something

you own it's literally the only thing

you can sell you can't sell anything you

can't sell your real estate you can't

sell your Apple stock you can't sell

your car true nothing else you can sell

so if can't sell it then by definition

it's not going to be volatile because

it's useless so things that are

nonvolatile are useless the volatility

is what attracts uh the Bloomberg jockey

to put up$ 20 billion of capital in

Singapore and that person will loan you

a billion dollars for five minutes on

Saturday night at 100x leverage if your

life depended on it and you can imagine

that is that a feature or is that a bug

it's just a lot lot of economic power

and the fact that there's that much

economic power in the network means that

it attracts all of the Traders and it

attracts anybody that wants to either

buy or sell with leverage at any time

anywhere in the world once you Embrace

that idea you realize that if you wanted

to buy it knowing what it would be worth

next Tuesday you're a fool but if you

wanted to buy it thinking this is the

most powerful digital Capital Network in

the world for the next 100 years and

I've got a long time Horizon and I just

want to get rich and I'm going to hold

on to it then it's uh it's a pretty wise

thing to put in your portfolio you never

sell do you at MST I this brings me to

mstr because I'm looking at your stock

price and it's multiples of where

Bitcoin is in other words we've seen

Bitcoin trading higher and higher even

just over the last six weeks or so but

mstr is trading that much more higher

explain to me why it is that your

company is is trading ahead of Bitcoin

and and what it is that you guys are

doing that is attracting so many

investors in the

community you know I mean when you have

trophy assets you never sell them right

Bernard rno never sells any of the

brands of lvmh right when you own the

New England Patriots you don't sell it

you try to gift it to your great great

grandchildren if you can solve the tax

issue uh the royal family of England

doesn't sell the middle of London or

Kensington Palace or Buckingham Palace

or the like so you don't sell things

that are scarce and desirable that

everybody in the human race is going to

want you buy and you hold them forever

micro strategy uh is a Bitcoin treasury

company um what we do is we raise

Capital via cash flows from the business

from Equity uh by issuing debt by doing

fixed income financings and then we buy

Bitcoin with it and um the people that

buy our Equity want high performance

Bitcoin and high volatility Bitcoin so

we give them more volatility and more

performance and then other people that

buy our fixed income instruments they

might buy a convertible Bond they want

more security they want risk protection

they want less volatility they want some

of the upside but they would rather have

downside protection and give up some of

the upside and they can't really buy the

equity and then of course there's some

people uh you know that are option

Trader they want 10x the volatility so

some people want extreme leverage

extreme volatility other people want

um very little leverage they want a lot

of risk protection so micro strategy

splits uh it splits the capital or it

refines the capital such that we provide

one set of investors with a lower lower

volatility lower risk way to participate

and then another set of investors with

high

voltage methods to

participate do you see yourself in

competition with ETFs at all what do you

think about all the ETFs that have come

out and what do you say to investors

that are like gosh like I'm just blown

away I need to go back and rewatch this

five times to to digest it all I mean

people say well I I can't get my head

around it I don't I don't understand who

Satoshi Nakamoto is I don't understand

what this is um do you think that that

needs to more needs to be done in terms

of educating the public or you know you

build it and they will come well uh as

the first question now we don't compete

with the ETFs they basically sell spot

Bitcoin exposure if you want 50 AR 50

Vol 100% upside and downside as a as a

simple uh digital property instrument

you would buy the ET and they're and

they're perfectly fine Investments I

mean very straightforward uh if you want

high performance Equity or optionality

you would want our Equity or or the

options that trade above our equity and

if you want Bitcoin back bonds or some

kind of Bitcoin fixed income instrument

you would buy something that we were

selling so we're very complimentary to

them and of course both both Investments

work well because at the end of the day

all the money invested in any of these

instruments is used to buy

Bitcoin and there's only 450 Bitcoin

available for sale every day by the

Bitcoin minor so when that Bitcoin gets

purchased you have to take the price up

in order to find another willing buyer

at a higher price level so that's a very

that's a very virtuous competitive cycle

there and we're very complimentary with

regard to you know my suggestions for

potential investors or people that are

interested in Bitcoin I would say you

know before you before you put money

into Bitcoin put time into Bitcoin uh if

you go to hope.

uh remember Bitcoin is hope you can find

lots of courses on bitcoin lots of books

on bitcoin lots of videos on bitcoin

lots of research papers and resources on

bitcoin uh you know you could just go

and Google you know Google me on YouTube

and you'll find lots or michael.com

videos you got michael.com yeah go to

michael.com go to hope.com read the

Bitcoin standard the the big idea with

Bitcoin I just got the book by the way

and I got it because I knew that that

was very influential for you and I

wanted to read it ahead of talking to

you amazing book really interesting and

for people who are very interested in

sound money as I know so many of my

listeners and viewers are Michael it's a

really worthwhile book because you know

it's getting into the the gold standard

and the dangers of money Printing and

central banks

Etc yeah the great thing about studying

Bitcoin is is you won't really

understand money until you understand

until you've seen perfect money so

Bitcoin takes you down this this path of

the theory of money and then you start

to understand what's bad money and why

it's bad and what's good money and why

it's good and then that'll take you into

the theory of investment like when you

actually buy a bunch of corporate stocks

to save your money you're not saving

you're investing you're you're making a

bet on the stock and so you start to

understand the difference between saving

your money and investing your money and

then once you understand the theory of

investing you start to understand the

theory of assets what's the difference

between a commodity and a security and

why is a commodity normally a crappy

investment unless it's Bitcoin in which

case it's a good investment and then you

start to understand Commodities versus

scarcity so so all of the investment

Theory economic theory and monetary

theory that comes about when you

understand Bitcoin will cause you to

realize Bitcoin is just a better idea

and it will also help you make your

investment decisions and make your

savings decisions and and navigate

geopolitical currency markets and

understand why does one government Crash

and Burn and why does hyperinflation

take place one place and not another

place and how can you insulate yourself

and your family from that final question

to you the dollar you know a lot of

people are watching their dollars just

evaporate in terms of purchasing power

and it's one of the reasons why they're

looking one of the reasons why you guys

were looking for Alterna Alives as we go

increasingly into this complex

geopolitical situation and you know you

get Putin over there entertaining

everybody saying okay well you can't use

dollars and you can't use credit cards

um and there's this jockeying for who's

going to be the currency of the world so

to speak and the dollar comes Under

Pressure I is Bitcoin the answer do you

think is that the currency of the world

for the future and does it under or

threaten the hegemonic power of the

United

States yeah I don't think Bitcoin uh

threatens the US I think Bitcoin is

strengthening the US um I think that if

you look at all the currencies in the

world the strongest currency in the

world is the dollar and so everybody in

the world is either got a weaker

currency which is collapsing or they're

on the dollar standard like the euro is

pretty much pegged to the dollar the

Singapore the the you know know the drom

most of the quote unquote good

currencies you know the Swiss frank Etc

they're pretty much pegged to the dollar

and then the bad currencies you know the

weak currencies the peso the Nar

Egyptian pounds Lebanese pounds Turkish

L they're collapsing against the dollar

so it seems pretty clear that the dollar

will um continue to spread um but there

is an inflation problem the inflation

rate in dollars is not the CP Pi it's

not two or 3% the the best uh the best

way to think about monetary debasement

is to look at the um the S&P index if

the S&P is advancing 12% a year that's

the rate at which the money supply is

expanding in dollars so your hurdle

rates the the rate at which you have to

generate an investment gain in dollars

in order to get notet poorer is probably

the S&P index that's the cost of capital

and that's a pretty good surrogate for

the rate of expansion of the US dollar

M2 money supply so over the last 100

years the S&P index generally expands

about the same rate that the dollar

expands in money supply um so if someone

gives you an idea to generate 3% after

tax you know buying bonds at 5% that are

3% after tax that's kind of like

underperforming the cost of capital by

9% you're getting 9% poorer every year

so so anything that isn't beating the

S&P index is making you poorer in dollar

terms what's beating it well I mean the

S&P when you invest in the S&P and your

money goes up 10% a year with the S&P

you think you're getting richer no

you're just staying Rich you're staying

as wealthy as you are the Magnificent

Seven's beating it so over the last four

years maybe the S&P is up 13 14% the

Magnificent 7's up 25 26% it's D buing

it this is not this is a no-brainer it's

obvious right uh you know Nvidia and

Apple and Google and Microsoft and meta

those are monstrous stocks and everybody

knows are the most powerful companies in

the world so they

outperform everybody else in the S&P

underperforms so 1% of the companies

generate most of the gains the other 98

99% don't really generate much gain

bitcoin's doubling The Magnificent Seven

so in terms of what is bitcoin the

answer yeah sure if you want to beat the

S&P index uh you need something better

than a typical good company a well-run

company will at best keep up with

monetary inflation you need a monstrous

digital Monopoly like the Magnificent 7

to outdo it but the greatest digital

Monopoly in the world Trish is the

digital Monopoly of money I mean the

greatest digital Network in the world is

Bitcoin Bitcoin is Facebook for money

right it's Google for money if all the

smart rich people in the world decide

that they want to store their money in a

bank and cyber space that will never be

debased and hold it for the next hundred

years right isn't that the best

investment by definition because every

other company has some kind of crack in

its armor some kind of attack surface

all the other companies get taxed they

have employees they have headquarters

they get hit with tariffs and fines and

Etc so find me a big Tech Monopoly that

is global that that sells a product that

everybody wants nobody can stop it's you

and nobody understands no it's Bitcoin

TR Bitcoin Bitcoin Bitcoin party there

and we've talked about this you and I

off camera but I mean how do you nobody

else can kind of get in at this point

right it's very hard I should say you've

kind of got some dominance in this space

you were the first to really Embrace

this so you know theoretically speaking

assuming assuming this all plays out I I

guess mstr is is well positioned well so

I just framing this right Bitcoin is

digital Capital going from 1.4 trillion

to 14 trillion to 140 trillion that's

the asset class that's the big idea

that's the

groundbreaking transformation micro

strategy is a Bitcoin treasury company

what we're doing is securitizing Bitcoin

we're offering fixed income instruments

or high performance Equity or high

leverage

derivatives that appeal to all of the

capital markets participants since there

are lots of people with pools of money

they have to trade options they have to

trade convertible bonds they have to buy

Equity they want fixed income so micro

strategy is is converting what you'll

call crude Capital into refined capital

Capital think think crude oil goes in

one side of the refinery and gasoline

and kerosene and toline and 27

petrochemicals come out the other side

of the

refinery and so we're we're happy to do

our part but the big invention is crude

oil right we discovered Infinite Energy

you know in liquid form micro strategy

is a company commercializing crude

capital and crude capital is

just higher higher performance than you

know than the thing it replaced which

was like you know digital capital is

better than analog capital and will be

yeah that fascinating oh by the way we

got an election coming up doesn't matter

does it matter to the price of Bitcoin

who

wins uh bitcoin's been universally

accepted as a digital commodity H you

know as an asset without an issuer and

it is the is you know the reserve asset

of the entire crypto economy and it is

the most widely held Global investment

asset in the world so it wins no matter

what you know either either outcome will

be good for

Bitcoin uh it's uh it's going to

continue to move up that's an

interesting aspect to it too because you

know as you try and gauge what's going

to happen economically depending

depending on who's there or who's not

there you want to find an asset that can

hopefully manage through through thick

and thin so this is just fascinating

absolutely fascinating Michael I I hope

you come back I hope you come back and

and we can talk some more because you

know look I I could talk to you all day

about this stuff I just think it's

really interesting and and you're on The

Cutting Edge of just big big things to

come so we appreciate you taking the

time today well thank you Trish I

enjoyed our time together good

stuff so cool so cool so cool we had a

plug for 76 research I may have gotten

out of that too too quickly but 76

research.com that is my company you know

that I started and we've written a lot

on bitcoin a lot on bitcoin so there's a

lot of information there's free

information there's some uh that you pay

a dollar a month for so you can sign up

it's just a dollar a month for the first

two months then goes to 9.95 we also

have model portfolios there you know

everything the model portfolio is

designed not to be as as volatile

obviously as as Bitcoin is but the model

portfolios have done great I've shown

you guys the chart we're up some

10.6% um so we're not Bitcoin levels

right but you know we don't have the the

the ups and downs if you would right I I

just find that whole thing so

fascinating but this is 76 research and

yes the median stock which Billy I think

was pointing out during the chat is up

10.8% versus &p up 5.9% for the 3 months

ending 930

2024 I started that of course with a

very dear friend who spent decades on

Wall Street ran billions of dollars and

my whole thought on that one is you know

what we we need to bring this more

directly to the people as opposed to all

the research getting traded internally

right with within the these various

hedge funds Etc so that's part of the

methodology behind 76 research but

anyway my thanks to to Michael I I

really could talk to him all day and you

know you guys are probably like I don't

know if I can I can handle it all day

but you can you can go back and listen

to that in pieces especially if you're

looking at Bitcoin possibly as an

investment in the future it's something

that really is is something for the long

long long uh Long View