Michael Saylor On The Blockchain Interviews with Dan Weiskopf

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you're watching the blockchain

interviews hosted by dan weiskong

each episode features interviews with

leading industry experts so that viewers

can have a deeper understanding of

today's quickly evolving blockchain

marketplace

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i'm delighted to have michael saylor

chairman ceo founder

of microstrategies on as our guest for

the blockchain interview series today

i'm not sure michael saylor really needs

a traditional introduction

but for those few

who aren't on twitter

aren't technology experts

and didn't graduate from mit with the

highest of honors

michael saylor's been

a ceo for 30 years at microstrategies

and

you know two years ago took the bitcoin

market

um by storm um

and and so michael thank you very much

for all that you do for bitcoin and and

what you do for your shareholders

thanks dan happy to be here

so

we were early investors in

microstrategies fortunately

um and and and i don't know why i ever

had a hundred thousand

bitcoin as a number in my head

to be clear you've always been very

transparent but you've never projected

out

a specific number

now you're 105 000

bitcoin

on your balance sheet at microstrategies

is there a target that you have in mind

uh no just buy as many as we can

more is better more is better and and

along the same lines um frankly i don't

think sometimes you get enough credit

for

um tapping the capital markets as you

have i mean you were really smart in

recognizing

you know how the convert market

was was trending

and and you know how do you go about as

an entrepreneur

um using the capital markets in the

decision process

um and and managing risk versus

opportunity

you know well i mean i think if we look

at the last decade bitcoin's up about

120 a year on average for 10 years it's

up about 250 percent for the past 12

months

um over any last four year time frame i

don't think anybody's ever lost money

holding it for four years

so a pretty simple rule of thumb would

be if i could borrow money for less than

the expected return and if it comes due

more than four years out

then i think i'm pretty safe so if

you're gonna loan me money at six

percent interest um

for six days and i bought bitcoin might

be some risk

six months maybe somewhere six years

well i took a survey on twitter of all

my followers and i said um

you know over the course of seven years

do you think bitcoin will go up on

average six and eight percent interest

or more it turns out that was our last

secure debt financing we borrowed money

at six and eight percent interest

so it's like 90 percent of them said yes

okay so if you're long bitcoin you think

it's going gonna go up more than six

percent a year

then would you borrow money at six

percent

sure would you borrow money at two

i mean the truth of the matter is if you

went to anybody in any business in the

world

you asked them would you borrow a

billion dollars at zero percent interest

to invest in the business you're in

if the answer is no

then they must not believe in the bit

they probably should get out of the

business right if you're not willing to

invest a billion dollars at zero percent

interest in the business that you're

currently in

you're short

right you're short to business right so

in that case the right answer is you

ought to borrow the billion dollars and

short

the thing right but if you don't have an

opinion one way or the other you

probably shouldn't be in that business

and there's 10 000 businesses dan i

don't have an opinion on like you know

biomechanical engineering or nuclear

engineering i don't really know i don't

purport to be an expert in the 99.9

of the things in the world that i'm not

an expert in i just feel like you should

focus upon the thing that you're going

to work on if you if you know that thing

and someone is willing to give you

favorable financing

and if you have a use of the proceeds

look there's a lot of if i'm running a

um a diner down the street and it's a

nice diner and i got six employees and

i'm really good at i love it and you

offered me a billion dollars maybe i

don't need a billion dollars of capital

to upgrade my diner is not capital

intensive so there are some businesses

where you can't use the capital

but um bitcoin is a business where you

can use the capital it's either going up

or it's going down if it's if it works

it's going up and if it's going up then

you would like to own as much of it as

you can possibly own so my view of the

capital markets is if you can if you can

acquire capital at a reasonable cost to

funds

under the right conditions without

onerous covenants

then yeah you should go ahead and

acquire that capital and i think you've

also made the decision not to loan your

bitcoin out

can you walk me through why that

decision is the right decision because

arguably you could loan it out take a

yield and and maybe pay a dividend

okay well there's a couple of issues

with it first of all as a publicly

traded company

it takes the typical publicly traded

company three to six months to get

through the compliance and the

regulatory and the accounting

and the due diligence issues to simply

trust the counter parties to acquire in

custody bitcoin

okay so that's a big deal and what do

you get for that well

the last decade you got 120 annualized

return

in the last year you got 250 annualized

so i i would say you get a pretty good

return by going through the motions of

acquiring and holding the bitcoin

the offers with regard to yield or four

percent

five percent

eight percent okay so you're talking

about an order of magnitude less

and you're at least going to double

the amount of effort but you've got

counterparty risk so

you know

what if you

what if you loan out a billion dollars

of the bitcoin and somebody loses it all

right

so

uh i think the counterparty risk is

large there's already complexity right

there's there's defy complexity am i

going to do a defy well that that's got

a regulatory overhang

right maybe it's illegal

maybe it's a secure you know security

problem so no not gonna do that there's

a security problem so what if i put it

on a

on a d5 block chain and there's a rug

pull and you lose it all okay

so there's security issue there's a

regulatory issue there's an audit and

there's a legal and accounting issue

okay so well what if i do c5

well you know what if i put it with you

know one of the yield generating c5 uh

players block fi etc well there's

regulatory overhang there too there's a

question of

of

compliance

my auditors would have to get

comfortable with their auditors

right my lawyers have to get comfortable

that i've gone through the due diligence

okay how does one go through the due

diligence process of trusting a

counterparty right now okay so i think

the right way to think of it dan is like

we're in year one or year two of

commercial bitcoin banking

okay

we haven't even like what's the date

it's like the early part of august you

know our first our first bitcoin

acquisition was august 11th or something

like that so we're not even one year

into it

and i think when you get to three to

five years into the world of bitcoin

banking

the security issues the regulatory

issues the due diligence issues

can you show me a bitcoin bank that's

taken a billion dollars of bitcoin and

generated yield consistently for 10

years in a row without

any kind of

mishap

how about three years

sounds like somebody with experience

right you've been on both sides right so

i get it yeah um so the point really is

you're taking a hundred times as much

risk and it's ten times as complicated

to get five percent more

so let me turn it around a different way

if i'm going to go ahead like like i

wouldn't take 100 x more risk

okay to start with right that like as a

fiduciary that doesn't make sense let's

assume that it wasn't any risk it was

just 10 times harder

well why would i divert the time of my

legal team and my finance team to go

jump through 10 times as many

compliance accounting security

regulatory and process hoops

when i have other things i could do at

the time why don't i just go and raise

another billion dollars and buy bitcoin

that's been yielding 120 a year for a

decade wouldn't it make a lot more sense

to leverage up or to acquire more of the

thing that's going up 120 percent a year

than it is to divert everybody in order

to get it to go up 123 a year with a

hundred times as much risk and ten times

much complexity is that so it's a quiet

let me offer a different example it's

like do you want to buy a hundred

thousand acres in vegas and just own it

and you could do it overnight

or do you want to carefully huddle with

a hundred architects and plan a hundred

and fifty hotels and the septic systems

and all the traffic light systems and

all the elevator systems of all the

casinos and hotels and restaurants in

vegas

complicated and risky and distracting

and deluded

we get asked the question so i figured

i'd just throw it at you and and asked

as somebody once said to me asked and

answered i totally understand

um so

turning things around a little bit

you've got two businesses right um

is the software business now

you know growing in terms of of being

able to hire

maybe better people or are people more

excited as a result of

what you're doing with bitcoin i wrote a

piece about how cisco should be doing a

little bit more like what you're doing

and i just wonder if you're fostering

innovation

and showing that you're willing to take

risk in in your bitcoin endeavors for

the software you know i think the the

bitcoin decision increased our brand

awareness by a factor of a hundred

okay so

that helps us enormously with recruiting

it helps us enormously with retention it

helps us enormously

if we go to a cfo or a ceo

and we're showing microstrategy software

now they know who we are

right i mean i think i've got 20 25

million youtube views

so people have heard of us now so it's

always useful if people know who you are

and of course

bitcoin is

one of the most if not the most

disruptive technology of the decade and

it's it's disrupting the energy industry

it's disrupting the investment community

it's disrupting the technology community

that means it's uh it's something it's

disrupting politics and economics in

general it's disrupting

the definition of assets and property

rights

so that being the case

uh it gets people's attention

and it gets

and it's progressive and it gets people

focused so i think it's been great for

morale it's been great for retention

it's been great for acquisition of new

employees and it's helping us to deliver

our our corporate message

microstrategy

uh microstrategy software business was

up 10 in the first quarter year over

year our business is up 13

in the second quarter

so when you get to double digit growth

that's that's a good thing and and we've

been seeing strengthening of that

business subsequent to our decision to

embrace bitcoin

yeah um do you expect

that some of your software projects

would be

targeted or focused in on the blockchain

you know we talked about uh pursuing

good ideas like dan i don't regret

any bad idea i ever pursued because i

never pursued a bad idea

i regret all the good ideas i pursued

because they were diluted to the great

ideas so here's a good idea why don't we

get some yield on our billion dollars of

bitcoin it's a good idea it's

distracting dilutive and potentially

gonna create problems here's another

good idea why don't we use our software

expertise to build something cool in the

bitcoin blockchain world

yeah

yeah we could

but what

we've got a 500 million dollar business

which is very profitable and we're the

best in the world and we've got 30 years

of experience in it and we know that

there's nobody better than us

we can keep doing that and grow that and

cultivate that or we can look for a new

application of software

but you know if i you know if i had a

bitcoin for every time somebody came up

to me and said i have an idea for a new

app

i mean there's a hundred thousand ideas

for a new app they all require software

i got plenty of ideas

i think um

the one thing i learned in business over

my 30 years is

it's a lot easier um

it's a lot easier to acquire something

you can but you can acquire or you can

create a piece of software or you can

buy a business that's really easy

it's much harder to be competitive in

the business can you can you actually

launch something and be the best in the

world at it

that's harder

and then it's really really hard to

commercialize something so the standard

of commercializing something is

i have to ship the product be the best

in the world at it and then i have to be

able to upgrade it continuously forever

for less money than my customers are

willing to pay me to use it

so can you actually profit continuously

from something while growing it

because if you can't

keep making a profit while you grow the

thing

then even if you're the best in the

world now you won't be the best in the

world in a decade you'll get squeezed

out by somebody else

so i think when you look at all these

businesses

you know the standard of can i come up

with something cool to build that's very

low i can come up with a hundred

thousand good ideas of things to build

can i be the best in the world at it

i don't know i mean i won't know until

i've done it for three to five years and

then can i grow it continuously against

the person that is the best in the world

at it

right the decision to compete

is the decision to be the best in the

world continuously forever at a profit

at something

okay that when you think about it that

way it gives you laser eyes

right it gives you focus because you

realize that

it's it's like you can go into any any

city in the world to start a restaurant

can you make money

you'll know in 36 months will you be

there in a hundred years

will you be there in a decade

like that that's very hard it's it's

probably 10 000 times harder

than the than the the first stage of

just launching the thing or doing the

thing that's why there's a 99.9 percent

failure rate on mobile apps or new ideas

or websites

in fact i i think most people

underestimate the true failure rate of

all these business ideas i mean to say

that 99 of them fail is to understate

the issue it's more than 99 failure and

so

you got to really find a way to bring a

massive asset to bear in such a way that

you know you'll be the best in the world

and then you have to be ready to fend

off

all comers

over the course of the next decade if

you really want to go for that if you

don't

then the problem dan is is dilutive

like because the the 27 engineers that i

put on this thing are getting pulled off

something else the capital i put under

this thing are getting pulled off of

something else

right so

they're the world's full of people that

are diluting their capital and diluting

their bandwidth

and diluting their brand

pursuing good ideas

so i think you you kind of answered

a question that i wanted to ask when i

first got into the business around the

time frankly when you were launching

microstrategies

um i was i was focused on venture

capital

but that's not going to be your thing

because i

can envision you getting at least a

hundred ideas sent to you or somebody

who you would um dedicate to venture

capital but that's not that's not your

your vision for micro strategies it's

not your vision for micro for for

michael saylor

if you spent 20 years of your life doing

vc venture capital

if you have a pool of billions of

dollars of capital

that you raised from limited partners

and they gave you the money and you

agreed to a contract that you would

invest it in venture capital

and then you're staring at the crypto

world

then that might make sense right you

have a strategic pool of capital and you

have a strategic

capability to invest in early-stage

companies you know you should

if you you know if you just have the

idea that you'd like to be a venture

capitalist

what's the here's the problem dan

i have a billion dollars of capital but

it's not limited partner capital

strategically committed to venture

capital

okay so i could just buy bitcoin with it

right so if i were to buy if i were to

invest in 10 10 companies

that's 10 companies out of 100 000

companies what's the success rate

there's a hundred thousand companies

that might that might plug into bitcoin

i would rather just own the bitcoin

instead of expressing a directional

exposure or an opinion about which of

those companies i mean don't you have to

analyze all 100 000 companies to know

that your 10 are going to be the ones

that win and so my problem with that is

i don't want to be in the business of of

choosing winners and losers

in that space nor do i want to manage

the early stage vc process i would be

distracting myself my management

bandwidth

i'd be moving away from running

microstrategy and managing bitcoin

i would be running into the vc world

and i'd be diluting my capital because a

billion dollars invested in bc is a

billion dollars not invested

in bitcoin

when i talk to all these bitcoin

companies that their vc finance they're

like oh i just raised 100 billion i said

well how much bitcoin do you have they

say like they look their head down like

they won't let me invest in bitcoin i'm

like well that's pretty foolish why

don't you take the 100 million and put

80 million of it into bitcoin because if

the business fails you'll probably still

succeed

and if the business succeeds then you'll

still succeed

and on the other hand if bitcoin fails

you're not going to succeed no matter

what you do

right there's no point in being the

world's best bitcoin something or other

if bitcoin goes to zero so the problem i

think with uh with the vc is you're just

you're um

taking capital that could be invested in

bitcoin

and you're investing it downstream one

two three or four

you know layers away from bitcoin and

you're taking all of that execution risk

and competitive risk

when you could just own the underlying

asset

let's let's let's let's talk about that

a little bit and then i i understand

where you're coming from and you know

that's why we're involved in your stock

um but they're going to be a lot of

winners too right you know there's a

whole discussion or or narrative around

ethereum right but you're focused on

bitcoin specifically so we run a

portfolio of between 40 and 60 names

and are constantly screening through

about 200 different companies that are

going to be involved in the blockchain

and credit space

um

but but you're you understand

you raise the money and your charter is

you're required to to take a diversified

interest in a and a market basket of

securities right right that's your

charter that exactly is the mandate what

if you took all the money invested in

one company

are you allowed to i'd be fired so you

understand

right absolutely

because your investors wanted to buy a

diversified portfolio of securities i

assume yes right

you probably can't even buy the

underlying can you buy corn or oil

rights or land or the underlying bitcoin

no no because you have a charter correct

okay so it's totally legitimate but you

understand you raised you raised all

your capital with a strategy to invest

in a diversified portfolio of securities

and maybe you've got a tighter strategy

maybe your focus is on the crypto world

or the whatever world right

well my strategy is

to run an enterprise software company

that builds the world's best business

intelligence software

and my second strategy is to acquire and

hold bitcoin

and that's the first two paragraphs or

the first paragraph of my 10k if you

read it and pull it that's what it says

well that's a very clear disclosure if

you're investing in mstr

then that's what you're expecting to get

my job is not to diversify your

portfolio to 100 other securities it's

my job is not to hedge the risk

in fact

if you wanted to if you had a hundred

million dollars and you wanted one

percent exposure to bitcoin

you might prefer to own microstrategy

that says we're going to be 3x leverage

bitcoin

then own a bitcoin etf which is one x

leverage bitcoin

and you certainly don't want to take

your one percent and invested in a

company run by yoyo smith that sometimes

buys and sometimes sells bitcoin and

hedges it for you but doesn't tell you

what they're gonna do and they're not

predictable

because if bitcoin goes to zero

then you're going to lose your one

percent

in which case if you're 20 exposed you

only got 20 of the upside if you're one

x exposed you got the full upside and if

you're 3x exposed you got 3x the upside

so you understand the number one

question is what exposure am i buying

i'd rather own the company that's got

the most exposure and the second is

do i do i trust them and do i understand

their strategy

i don't really want someone that's flaky

that's going to change their strategy

and blow with the wind because it makes

it impossible for me as the portfolio

manager to construct my portfolio

rationally if you're in the aluminum

business i want you to do aluminum and

if you're going to be in the timber

business i want you to buy timber and if

you're in the bitcoin business i want

you to buy bitcoin

and the one thing i don't want to read

is

is well the company may or may not buy

it and they may hedge it if they get

worried about it and and they you know

they're not quite sure right because

i mean if i wanted an

uncertain you know

security or an uncertain outcome there's

a lot of ways to get an uncertain

outcome

i i want to know what i'm buying that's

why you put it up front and i think

from an investor relations point of view

our job is to have a strategy and

execute the strategy with clarity and

and consistency

and uh and i think from a securities

point of view that's definitely the

safest

and most uh responsible way to go about

it right if you're if you're

unpredictable

you know that creates complications down

the road i i totally agree with what

you're saying and and and sometimes

we're going to go after different types

of companies that maybe are

conglomerates but to your point we know

they're conglomerates in your case we

know exactly what we're getting and we

appreciate that so we always try and

conclude these calls with two wild card

questions okay

um

the first question i have is what is the

one thing investors in the blockchain

are not paying attention

to today

in your judgment

i think everybody underestimates

the success and the value of bitcoin and

they overestimate everything else

i mean bitcoin is 10 years old

successful proof-of-work system

it's not clear to me

like you've only got two things in the

blockchain that have been deemed as

property or commodity bitcoin and

ethereum there's only two but there's

only one of them that has a consistent

strategy for the next decade and a

consistent pass for the last decade and

that's bitcoin

right so i i think it's pretty important

to understand that the bitcoin is pretty

much the most uh predictable

thing in the entire blockchain universe

everything else is uncertain there's

massive technical uncertainty security

uncertainty legal uncertainty execution

uncertainty

and i think and so i think people

overestimate

right

the the

certainty or the value of everything

else i think they underestimate

the uh the value of bitcoin

people ask me if i'm you know are you

going to diversify and my point is

the most diversified strategy you could

take is own all the bitcoin

every single time you buy something

other than bitcoin in the blockchain

system

you're actually you're actually assuming

a whole basket of new risks

that you didn't even know you assumed

and you're and you're losing

diversification

against the traditional conventional

economy

you've got 500 trillion dollars worth of

assets in the world every bank every big

tech company every government on earth

every one of them would solve their

problems by buying bitcoin

buying

if apple google and facebook build

bitcoin into their application they

improve their business

if el salvador or cuba or turkey or or

japan or russia or the us or the uk or

france buy bitcoin they fix their

balance sheet every company on earth if

they buy bitcoin they fix their balance

sheet so bitcoin is the solution to

hundreds of thousands of entities

and if you don't own it

you're not exposed to each of those

entities

right um everything else in the world is

not you're not going to buy a random

mobile app

in order to fix your balance sheet of

your turkey and you're not going to buy

another crypto

right that there isn't there isn't a

proof of work digital property which is

stable that you can use to fix your city

fix your state fix your country fix your

business

fix your technology so i think people

underestimate bitcoin i think they

overestimate everything else

and um

you know you're either going to invest

in conventional equities and

conventional equities have equity risk

and they have all sorts of a stack of

employment risk tariff risk transport

risk execution risk competitive risk etc

there's a ton of risk there

and i think that when you get into the

blockchain area there's just a huge

stack of risks so i think people

typically they underestimate all the

risks of not buying bitcoin

and uh they're underexposed i

i think that's what that's the number

one thing that i think people don't have

right now they should be more exposed to

bitcoin less exposed to everything else

in the world

the second wild card question is

which industry will be most affected by

blockchain

um

that's a toss-up between conventional

finance and big tech

like every conventional bank every you

know goldman sachs jp morgan citigroup

you know fidelity

blackstone blackrock

that they're affected right if you if

you're taking a hundred trillion dollars

of bonds with a negative yield and you

swap the hundred trillion dollars of

bonds into bitcoin which is appreciating

i mean there's no way to describe those

anything other than a multi-trillion

dollar

uh transformation digital transformation

of bonds to bitcoin

and you know if you look at traditional

finance

there are massive businesses that are

all built around wrapping fixed income

instruments and bond instruments and

providing management

services so i think that that clearly

that's going to be affected

but the other the other uh side of this

is big tech

um

bitcoin is worth a trillion dollars to

apple

facebook

if facebook facebook is a trillion

dollar company and what's in the app

your

digital relationships and digital photos

and digital videos are in the app

well what if digital property is in the

app what happens when facebook has a

trillion dollars worth of money on

deposit in the app from a billion people

so google facebook amazon apple i mean

all of those companies especially google

facebook and apple they're the obvious

candidates to become trillion dollar

big tech banks fintech bank so this is

pretty compelling to them because

you know how many analysts are walking

around with the next idea for how how

apple adds one or two or three trillion

dollars to its market cap

right i mean well like not many other

ideas

well you know i wrote about how apple

should be a buyer of bitcoin maybe six

months ago

i mean they've got 200 billion dollars

of capital on their balance sheet how

can they spend all that money they

should

create more innovation inspire people

buy bitcoin

and

do what you're doing you know and and i

get that by the way and i i agree with

that but that's a strategy that anybody

with capital can pursue so

if you want to make 10 billion dollars

you just buy 10 billion bitcoin and wait

for it to double right it's a very

simple strategy

and as large institutions get

comfortable with bitcoin as an asset

class then they're going to pursue that

strategy right

but

my my idea or my thought with apple is

we will get to a point in this world

where eight billion people will have a

mobile phone

those guys i guess six billion now five

to six billion

and those mobile phones will be

controlled probably by either the ios or

the android operating system so you're

you're staring at who are the big mobile

players it's google and apple

split the world between them and then

facebook is that compelling app on top

of them so those are the big three

we will get to the world where everybody

wants to carry their property on their

phone

and so if if you're if i give you a

million dollars and i say to you i say

to you invested in something that you

can give to your grandchildren or your

great-grandchildren in a hundred years

you know a building land gold silver a

stock

you know a bond

you know what is that something well i

don't want to take any of that risk i

just want the pure money and the answer

is okay put a million dollars of bitcoin

on the thing

and how are you going to handle that a

mobile device

and how are you going to secure it you

know it's going to be some combination

of

face id multi-signature face id or or

biometrics across multiple mobile

devices with multi-factor authentication

and that's how you're going to move it

and that's how you're going to custody

it and that means that the icloud what's

what's in the icloud now

right your videos your photos your

documents and your communications

what's not in the icloud now

your money

what happens when a hundred trillion

dollars gets slurped out of 20th century

property

which is land real estate gold bonds

securities what happens when 100

trillion dollars gets slurped into

digital property it's got to land in the

icloud

or the equivalent of the android cloud

or in facebook and if none of those

three step up then

then it's going to be square and paypal

and then one day square will be a

trillion dollar company

right and

and it's going to be a little war

between them and maybe you know they'll

be maneuvering between the exchanges and

the apps etc

but um but that's the opportunity now

and it's it's big it's the future of big

tech

because

the next yeah the mobile wave has

chapters right

mobile photos mobile video mobile or

digital photos digital video digital

books digital maps

digital relationships

digital education

digital property digital property is

that

last chapter and it's the big chapter

because digital property is worth

somewhere between a hundred trillion and

two or three hundred trillion dollars

so the question is

who in the next decade

is going to control

manage program the digital property

and will that be apple or will that be

facebook or will that be square

that's the opportunity

and that dwarfs

digital maps

and digital music

and digital books

and i don't think any of them quite have

their heads around it probably the most

sophisticated entrepreneur in the space

right now is jack dorsey

paypal knows they got to do something

they don't get leap frog

a lot of the guys in the crypto space

they're still busy trading cryptos

but you see

the value is not in trading 250 or 500

different crypto coins

the value

is in slurping 50 trillion dollars out

of bonds into bitcoin and slurping 50

trillion dollars or a hundred trillion

dollars out of real estate

here's how you know you've got to the

right place when the rich 70 year old

that has a hundred million dollars and

is thinking about how to give it to his

grandchildren

when that person says i guess i should

put 50 million dollars of it into

bitcoin because that's a much better

idea than owning a building in manhattan

and it is a better idea by the way

property tax you know in florida is two

percent interest a year

if you take a hundred million dollars

and you buy property or buy a house in

forty you're paying two million a year

okay well figure it out in 30 years you

lose your property

there's a most property has a high

maintenance expense

and so what you want is a low tax load

low maintenance you can't put 100

million into a yacht and give it to your

grandkids costs you know you know the

the the cost the maintenance cost on a

yacht is 10 a year what's you know so

what can i put the money into

that is low maintenance that's going to

appreciate

and the only idea people have right now

is

diversified portfolio of securities

hence the etf boom

but at the end of the day you're holding

a diversified portfolio of securities

you've got

employment risk tax risk execution risk

securities risk custody risk

counterparty risk

all sorts of things

and so i i'm not suggesting that bitcoin

or digital property replaces etfs and

securities because you're always going

to want to own a basket of companies

if you if you are an investor

but if you are a saver

and you were thinking about buying land

or gold

or or some other very

scarce asset for 100 years

digital property in the form of bitcoin

is by far the best idea we've come up

with in the century

and so the the real opportunity here is

is not keep reinventing bitcoin

the real opportunity is for apple

computers simply to sell ten thousand

dollars of bitcoin to a hundred million

people

and and that's a big idea

and if a hundred million people have ten

thousand dollars

sitting in the icloud

then you just became the world's biggest

most profitable bank in the history of

mankind

right that's just sitting and waiting

out there for someone to grab

michael thanks for spending the time

with me today

i look forward to seeing your your

company grow and and see the you know

the

bitcoin

price appreciate

keep up the good work blocking tackling

thank you again look forward to staying

in touch

thanks for having me