Bitcoin vs Gold: The Great Debate with Michael Saylor and Frank Giustra

hello everyone i am daniela cambone and

welcome to the great bitcoin versus gold

debate

on stansberry research featuring michael

saylor and frank giustra

i'm honored to be moderating this

historic event

in the bitcoin corner we have michael

saylor he is the ceo of microstrategy

and has become the flag bearer for the

community

after making a bold move and becoming

the first ceo of a publicly listed

company

to convert a part of his company's cash

reserves into the cryptocurrency

he has publicly said that his mission

with this debate is to convince his

opponent frank giustra

to sell his gold and buy bitcoin on the

gold side we have frank giustra

early in his career frank transformed

yorkton securities into a

global powerhouse of mining finance and

was behind the creation of some of the

world's leading mining companies frank

is considered by many to be a modern

renaissance man having founded lions

gate entertainment

modern farmer dominica fiore and a long

list of other ventures today

he dedicates most of his time to his

philanthropic work he most recently

launched

the million gardens movement alongside

kimball musk frank has publicly stated

he was coming into this debate with an

open mind but wanted to challenge

michael on statements he has made on

gold

and bitcoin today michael and frank will

be

battling it out in perhaps the most

important debate ever to be held

on this subject of gold versus bitcoin

cyber hornets argue that bitcoin

represents a powerful digital network

that will thrive a quasi

technology stock without profits or co

but with near perfect security

and distribution gold bugs on the other

hand say gold

is the ultimate and timeless store of

value that it is an asset that the

financial system

will turn to time and time again

whenever there's a storm

but i'll leave it to the debaters to

battle this out i'm gonna go over the

format

and the ground rules now this debate

will cover six

topics along with an open and a closing

statement from each debater

they will each have five minutes per

topic except for the close where

they will have six minutes each once

they have made their points in the five

minutes the other side

will have a one minute rebuttal i will

be acting as moderator and hence there

will be no follow-up questions from me

but we will be moving on to the next

topic all right well welcome frank

giustra

joins us from los angeles and we have

michael saylor in miami gentlemen i have

eagerly been

awaiting this day so welcome welcome

frank and welcome michael

thank you great to be here thanks for

having us

awesome so as i stated at in the opening

uh we're going to start

with opening statements you'll have five

minutes each year

we decided ahead of the debate and

michael will kick things off for us

uh this will be five minutes of

uninterrupted time uh please consider it

your blank canvas in a sense to set um

the statements you'd like to make during

this debate michael please kick things

off for us here

thanks danielle so the debate is uh

bitcoin versus gold

i think that all gold holders and all

bitcoin holders agree on sound money

principles and the real debate is which

is the best

monetary system in order to pursue the

ideals of sound money

so i think we start with some basic

ideas

first of all human civilization rises

through channeling energy

we invented fire that's capturing

chemical energy

uh then we build our cities next to

rivers we're capturing

water and we're channeling gravitational

energy the aqueducts were critical to

the

roman civilization when we compress air

in a canister we're channeling

uh pressure uh electric systems and

batteries are channeling energy

lasers or channeling photons if we want

to

better the human condition we need to be

able to capture store and channel that

energy

money is energy money's a store of value

and it's also a technology allows us to

trade

that energy over time and space so if we

look at the history of money we've gone

from commodity money

to coinage of those commodities to notes

represented by that money to fiat

currency

and now we have cryptography as a basis

of money

now what's the sometimes gold gold

advocates say the gold is the ideal

money

well really the ideal money if

if god came down and god waved

his or her hand and created the ideal

it would be based upon luca pacioli's

modern accounting principles of double

entry accounting

and if you had godlike power and you

could implement

a double entry ledger like patrolling

introduced in 1494

and you could perhaps you could define

21 million units that are infinitely

subdividable trillions and trillions of

times

each you could maintain that in magic

space

and then you could settle everybody's

trades

instantly everywhere on earth everywhere

in the universe

in a fair and equitable fashion that

would be a good money

we could call that god coin and god coin

is like perfect instant transactions

never losing any information

well the next best thing that we've

invented is as humans is bitcoin

so bitcoin's the most efficient monetary

system we've yet to implement

successfully it's 21 quadrillion

satoshis

350 000 transactions a day it cost about

10

basis points of the monetary network to

clear those

transactions and to secure the network

and it stores the value and provides

security to everybody on the network

effectively for free after those

transaction fees

bitcoin's the most disruptive force in

the century in 12 years

it grew to 12 to 1 trillion dollars in

in

monetary value that beats google

facebook amazon apple

and the like that's the market sending

us a message

it's the next chapter in the mobile wave

we digitized our photos we digitized our

videos now we're going to digitize our

money and our currency and assets are

going to flow to billions of people

money is collapsing we've got a massive

inflation

problem we're losing one percent of our

value and currencies every single month

humanity without an effective strong

money is like

a type 1 diabetic without insulin you

can't store

energy you can't create fat you're going

to starve to death

without delivering effective money to

the human race

everybody's going to either economically

freeze or starve to death

violence and misery are going to follow

gold's not a solution it's not practical

to distribute

gold in small quantities to 5 billion

people

bitcoin is a solution it is spreading at

more than 200 percent a year

uh we're adding 3 million users a week

it's accelerating

if i wanted to give knowledge music

and money to the world in the 19th

century you did it with books

pianos and gold they're now antiques

for the elite in the 21st century

you're going to use the internet

platform in bitcoin and you're going to

provide

ibooks and google and youtube you're

going to provide

apple music and amazon music and spotify

to everybody

and you're gonna provide bitcoin as an

asset

for everybody uh gold used to be the

best solution

it isn't anymore the time has come to

pass the torch

from gold to bitcoin bitcoins humanity's

first

effective engineered monetary

system it's as profound as our rail

networks

our road networks our electrical

networks our telephone networks and the

internet

uh bitcoin can and will deliver the

virtues of strong money

the gold idealists have long hoped for

michael thank you for your opening

statements now we'll go to frank giustra

uh with your opening remarks please five

minutes daniella interrupted time

thank you thank you and and and michael

thanks for for agreeing to this debate

um uh and congratulations on your

bitcoin position that's you've done very

well and i'm looking forward to

exploring the facts

okay so as i've said a number of times

recently

um i don't have a problem with bitcoin

um

i think it's here to stay in some form

or

some value for some purpose i'm not sure

what

that purpose is yet i do have quite a

few issues

with the way you and others have made

certain claims about

bitcoin and i want to point out the

risks

that exist but but are never addressed

and i want to defend some of the um

statements that you've made about gold

uh and in doing all that i'm hoping to

draw a distinction

between what bitcoin is what it isn't

what maybe it aspires to be

understanding that distinction is very

important because

you need to assess that distinction to

assess its risk profile and therefore

where it fits in any given portfolio

i think our viewers deserve to know that

risk

and they need to know how that

distinction happens between

gold and and and and bitcoin

um you know i don't think

bitcoin is a safe haven asset yet

um i don't think i think there's a very

good chance it never will be

i think it may aspire to be but aspiring

to be something

doesn't make it so and you know

sometimes i dance around the living room

in my

uh underwear but doesn't make me madonna

so

um as far as your claims on gold

i'm not really sure what you're trying

to achieve by disparaging gold

i mean i do have a theory and you're

welcome to correct me if you think i'm

wrong but i think

um you're trying to create a narrative

for a higher price for bitcoin

and in order to do that you need to

convince everyone out there

that gold is worthless and all of that

value that currency currently resides in

gold

will be all transferred all 12 trillion

dollars of it will be transferred

to bitcoin um and that in that way

you can justify a 500 000 bitcoin price

or a million dollar

bitcoin price um otherwise why would

anybody

buddy pay sixty thousand dollars today

uh without that target in mind

i can't see any other way where you can

make the kind of claims that you're

making about

where the price where bitcoin is going i

think it's a really clever approach

and i take my hat off to you you've been

very effective

and and in many ways i think it's sad

because i think bitcoin believers and

gold believers

agree on 90 of everything and we fall

apart on this 10

last 10 percent of which one is better

and i think it's all

part and parcel of this binary attitude

that exists

in you know the discourse in americans

in america today you know you're either

on one side or the other

there's no middle ground um

but i see it as a strategy of

um your strategy where the stakes are

kind of do or die

um sort of a game of thrones per se

but the truth is we're only in the first

season and there are a lot of risks that

lie ahead of us

and the question you have to ask is will

you still be alive in season eight

and uh i just don't

think you are presenting the risks that

face

bitcoin in order to get there and

survive

um you you'd like to pretend those risks

don't exist and you gloss over them

because i think you're in a race to win

and

and i think that's kind of sad but

pretending that

bitcoin is a risk-free asset

is just i think naive

because if you fail to subsume the

entire value of gold

what are you left with you're left with

hoping that a greater fool is going to

come in and pay a higher price

i think the threats are real and i think

the biggest threats are going to come

from government

and central banks history has shown the

governments go to extreme

lengths to protect their monopoly on

currency

and they will not to tolerate a global

decentralized currency

it's just not going to happen and

especially if we

have say a dollar crisis which i think

we can all assume is coming somewhere

down the road uh and your claims that

bitcoin is

untouchable unstoppable are simply

not true uh and by the way you don't

have to kill

bitcoin with a death blow you can

severely damage or kill it with multiple

cuts

so you've been very effective pretending

that there aren't risks and i think i'm

going to spend

the rest most of this conversation just

pointing out where the risk is

where the risks exist and i just

think telling your viewers

that bitcoin is going to double every

six months

is i i find i get i have a lot of

trouble with that

so whatever the outcome is on this this

is on you

but perhaps you'll change my mind and so

let's get on to it

all right let's get on with it fantastic

opening remarks um

from you both thank you for that now

let's get into the meat of it we're

going to start with our first topic it

is asset

comparisons um michael i'll begin with

you we'll kick things off here

it's been said that in an ideal store of

value will have these eight attributes

it's durable

portable fungible verifiable divisible

scarce it has an established history and

it's censorship

resistance so my question to you is when

you're doing an asset comparison of

bitcoin versus gold

how do you make the case for bitcoin as

the better asset

you'll have five minutes of

uninterrupted time and frank will have

a one-minute rebuttal okay

if we think about the elements that

drive uh humanity forward if we think of

it from an engineer's point of view

you've got stone

you've got iron you've got concrete

you've got steel you've got aluminum

you've got silicon

you can't build a computer without

silicon you can't build a skyscraper

without steel

you're not going to survive if you don't

pick the right element

crypto is the steel of the 21st century

financial economy

an engineer would say you have to choose

wisely there's a right answer

there's a wrong answer so gold is

element

79 it's an ideal ornamental metal it's

indestructible malleable

it's attractive we love these things it

makes great jewelry it makes a great

ornament

it's just not a perfect monetary asset

because you can inflate gold you can

confiscate gold

it's immobile it's not easily divisible

and you can counterfeit it

uh it shows up in uh in the economy in a

heterogeneous fashion lots of different

types of gold coins

lots of different types of gold bars

lots of different types of gold jewelry

and the paper gold itself is is

sometimes trading at a hundred to one

versus the underlying physical gold and

there's no

trusted protocol to guarantee the

integrity or the synchronicity between

paper gold and

actual gold if we compare that to

bitcoin

uh bitcoin is not just an asset it's a

network and it's protocol

people would say it's the world's first

global self-settled

real-time clearing bearer instrument

it is all those things you mentioned

it's decentralized permissionless global

immutable scarce auditable

instantly transferable not seasonable

highly divisible

mostly everything that gold can't do

the asset itself secure easily divisible

is deflationary people might lose some

bitcoin they're never going to add more

than 21 million

you can transfer it around the planet

it's transparent

everybody running a node you can

authenticate it instantly

from a hundred dollar smartphone um

that's that's uh makes it the perfected

monetary asset of the human race we've

never actually had an asset that

clean it's synthetic gold without the

defects of monetary gold

now the network itself it's global it's

open

anybody can run a security node or a

validating node on the network

it's empowering to billions and billions

of people

it's it's vital because it's being

continuously upgraded in the software

layer and the hardware layer

and it's viral it's spreading at a rapid

rate

companies countries individuals are

adopting this and that makes it

as nicholas celeb would say anti-fragile

uh it just keeps getting better

um the protocol is the third element of

the asset which makes bitcoin superior

and what's special about that is it's a

protocol for synchronizing financial

applications with integrity

to the underlying bitcoin asset it's

been adopted

by built into square it was built into

uh and uh and why what does that mean

well that means that

bitcoin applications there bitcoin is

harder

it's smarter it's faster and it's

stronger

than the gold that came before it harder

meaning gold has a

half-life of 30 years you make 2 more

every year

bitcoin has a half-life of forever it's

it's effectively immortal and it's

organically

evolving it's only going to be better in

100 years than it is now

it's smarter because the applications

running on bitcoin are driven by modern

software and modern

modern cpus and modern servers they keep

getting

smarter and faster with moore's law you

can make a 100 million

calculations a second around the world

across

hundreds of thousands of different

servers on bitcoin applications you

can't do that with gold

it's faster you can do billions of

transactions

at the speed of light on these

applications you can run them 24 7 365.

it's stronger you can channel high

frequency energy

i could flash 10 000 loans for three

days

each across a hundred jurisdictions

between ten thousand different companies

and fetch them back with laser-like

precision

so in short bitcoin it's more than just

a monetary network

it's a trust network allowing millions

of applications

to serve billions of people

and it's going to accelerate global

commerce

in the 21st century and it's critical

for allowing for safe and efficient

operations in cyberspace

that's why the asset is superior to gold

thank you michael uh frank you'll now

have a one minute rebuttal

to that yeah yeah thank you michael you

know

it is a great technology and i'll give

you that uh and

i'm not going to argue the technology

and how innovative it is and

and all the things that you say that it

does um

but so far it's completely unproven that

this is going to be effective as a

a payment method it's far too slow it's

too volatile

and it has no history so i don't think

that

uh i don't see a way where it's going to

be a method of payment so

the ability to transfer bitcoin around

the world at the speed of light as

you like to talk about is you know

what's the point if it's if the only

thing you have to hang your head on is

store of value

what you say about gold and paper gold

and physical gold is is true

i prefer physical gold i i stay away

from the gold etfs

for many many reasons uh i like my goal

to have no counter

party risks much like bitcoin doesn't um

so um as far as it's

you claiming that it's secure i i will

debate you on that i don't think it's as

secure as you like to make it believe

especially if it becomes a threat thank

you frank

i will toss the question now to you

frank same topic

asset comparison when you're doing the

asset comparisons of gold versus bitcoin

make the case of why you think gold wins

here and under which conditions it

performs better than bitcoin

okay so listen i'll give the you know

one minute commercial

here that everybody's heard before gold

is eternal

and it's almost indestructible the gold

that you may be wearing in your jewelry

today might have been a piece of jewelry

two thousand years ago

it has been deeply woven

into the uh cultural fabric around the

world and into the global monetary

system

and if you believe you're about to

dislodge gold

in places like india and china which are

the world's largest buyers of gold

and where it's deeply ingrained in the

culture

i think you don't know a lot about india

and china

so in terms of its status as money

listen i'm sure if the us could roll

back the clock

um they they would probably do away with

gold

because the u.s relies on its status as

a

having the premier reserve currency and

it abuses that status to achieve its

goals by you know again printing lots

and lots of money

i can't see how bitcoin is going to be

recognized by

as money in every country in the world

in the way that gold is

its stability as a store of value is

vital to managing the central bank

reserve currencies and it's viewed as

protections against other fiat

currencies

central banks own 33 000 tons

of gold which is 20 of all the gold ever

mined and they're furiously buying it

year after year after year uh and

there's a reason for it and i can't say

the same for bitcoin

uh it's not owned by any of the central

banks it's

extremely unlikely it ever will be

um and i think bitcoin makes a much

easier target than gold

if it becomes a threat um and

the central banks are never going to

destroy gold to be akin to shooting

themselves in the foot

bitcoin they have no allegiance to so

they can go after that

in spades um and gold

you know one of the other misconceptions

and i think where people get mixed up

with the bitcoin

uh comparison is that gold is not

designed

to moonshot through the roof like some

tech darling

it's designed as a store value against

inflation

the devaluation of currencies and sharp

equity downturns

it's been tested time and time again

throughout history

bitcoin has never been tested especially

in a financial crisis because

bitcoin was introduced after the 2008

crisis in the meantime gold has doubled

since then

gold benefits in times of crisis and in

certain times of economic expansion

because of its

dual purpose of use in jewelry and

industry

if god forbid there were ever a war i

would prefer to have

my money stored in gold which is going

to be safe from cyber attacks on both

the internet and the power grids

now to be fair and i think also that

any time that there's a currency crisis

and this is what i'm afraid of

people will always flee to gold it

happens every every time

so but to be fair i think it's

it's good to point out that central

banks do try and manipulate

in my opinion they try and manipulate

and manage the gold price because the

gold

price is in a sense the canary in the

coal mine

as to a nation's fiscal health so any

spike in the gold price

yeah the central banks will try and

manage that but they're never going to

try and kill its value

because again they'd be shooting

themselves in the foot

they don't it's a necessary evil

um the us alone 77

of its reserves foreign reserves are in

gold that's four percent of all the gold

in the world

um and china is only declared three

percent but

again they're the largest producers of

gold in the world and the largest

importers of gold in the world

world and they're accumulating at a very

rapid rate

and no one really believes that what

they've declared is truly what they own

they come out every couple of years and

surprise the market with

increased reserves in gold but it

here's the thing it's in its respect

with the u.s dollar that i've

a real problem with michael's approach

to promoting bitcoin

because he tries to have it both ways on

the one hand

he is panicking people and to buy

buying bitcoin bitcoin as a protection

against this incredible m2 money growth

which he calculates at 20

a year and going forever 22

20 a year um

if he's right and i don't disagree that

that's the direction the dollar is going

in terms of money growth that would have

inc creates severe problems for the us

dollar

it would obviously devalue the dollar

over time because you would bring in a

lot of inflation

and so on the other hand he

claims that bitcoin is not a threat to

the us dollar and i think

in that sense he's talking out of both

sides of his mouth and i can only

assume that his the reason is he doesn't

want to

draw the ire or the attention of the us

government

because it's easier to go after gold the

authorities are never going to come to

gold's defense

and actually in a way he may be doing

them a favor by disparaging gold

but again he can't have it both ways you

can't

make that claim that bitcoin is going to

go to the moon and subsume all the value

of every us asset class and not be a

threat to the us dollar

and i think he's probably a bit late

because now it's squarely on the radar

of a lot of the

makers a lot of the pundits and they're

talking about the threat

to the us dollar by bitcoin um and it's

going to be monetary very closely

uh as the asset value goes goes up in

price

um you know bitcoin

advocates what's frank okay i'm sorry

okay so listen

there's a lot to be said about the way

that bitcoin is being

uh pitched as a decentralized

currency um

but it's idealistic to think that

that government's going to allow that

kind of anarchy you know i'm a lover of

history and

and and politics i'm actually very

deeply immersed in

geopolitics and i come from the

machiavellian school of thought when it

comes to politics and power

and i'm a realist and and

you may want things to be a certain way

but you have to see the ways

things truly are and anarchism has never

worked throughout history thank you and

you just have to look

okay i i've got so much more to say

you'll get

into it but i gotta give i gotta give

michael because you said a lot of big

statements there

and i have to give michael uh his one

minute

rebuttal so michael please well

frank says um bitcoin is not an

effective payment network

uh but method but the point really is

paypal and square

and venmo are providing billion

transaction

instant speed of light throughput on top

of bitcoin's network and so

the payments are going to come from the

application layer the layer 2 or the

lightning network

uh frank says it's not as secure as i

think

well i think crypto keys are holding the

keys

to uh to a cryptocurrency is the highest

property right

that the human race has ever invented to

date we can't have stronger property

rights than

holding a hundred million dollars with

password keys in your head or

multi-signature keys

uh everything else is a weaker property

right

um i i think that the way the world's

gonna end up

everybody's going to have a selection of

currencies in their mobile wallet and

assets in their mobile wallet

and they're going to be the top 10

currencies the dollar will be the king

currency and they're going to use it as

a medium of exchange

and instant payment on the network and

then they'll be strong assets the

strongest will be bitcoin people will

have other assets

and bitcoin doesn't have to be a

currency to be successful

the world and as long as there are

successful countries

they will maintain their currency i

think the losers will be the weak assets

and the weak currencies and this is not

a currency war with

bitcoin this is an asset war and that's

why

considering whether i want to put my

money in gold or bitcoin is appropriate

thank you michael we're going to move on

to the second topic now which is risk

factors frank i'll begin with you in

december jp morgan published a report

pointing to the grayscale bitcoin trust

which saw inflows

of almost 2 billion compared with

outflows of

7 billion for etfs backed by gold this

was for the period of october

to december of 2020. jp morgan predicts

the trend will continue

with gold suffering at the hands of

bitcoin my question to you is this

if jp's morgan's calculations are

correct it suggests

that bitcoin only accounts for point 18

percent

of family office assets compared with

3.8 percent for gold etf so tilting the

needle

from gold to bitcoin would involve the

transfer of billions

of dollars how do you make a case

against this risk

well okay and that's easy and you have

five minutes

first of all i i they're not going to

have to talk fast here but um

i i think i don't ever listen to what

wall street

anybody on wall street has to say about

things they're

more often wrong than they are right but

assuming the bitcoin is going to

continue to be accumulated at the rate

that it was and measuring that over a

period of a few months

you might as well be throwing darts

that's just not that's just

making that kind of assumption doesn't

make any sense but

i think assessing and quantifying risk

is the biggest issue facing bitcoin i've

said that earlier

and it's one thing that michael likes to

sidestep or gloss over

he doesn't feel it's necessary to worry

about those risks

brushing them off as black swan events

that will never happen but these risks

are real

and they're predictable they're not

unpredictable and it

should be taken into account um before

buying bitcoin and again i don't think

that

it should prevent people from buying

bitcoin but they need to give some

waiting to that risk

and as i said the biggest risk is going

to come from central bank and

governments

when and if bitcoin becomes large or

popular enough

to be perceived as a threat to currency

and

um and especially the us dollar and they

will go

work very hard and this has been proven

throughout history to try and squash

that opportunity or severely damage it

governments need to control their

currency

they need to have that monopoly and

i i just don't see because they need to

manage

both their fiscal and monetary policy

and in order to do that they have to

control their currency

so for whether you like it or not that's

the way it is

and i think that they also need

to control taxation and that's both

taxation that's direct and indirect and

taxation by inflation which

is their current preferred method means

that

they can monetize all this tremendous

amount of debt that they're

producing um and you the consumer are

paying

the tax through inflation does he

actually believe does michael and here's

the question does he actually believe

that the government is going to stand by

and allow bitcoin to subsume all the

value

of gold and maybe the and he's also

suggested the entire value of the bond

market

i just don't know in what universe he

thinks

that governments will allow that to

happen i i think it's sheer insanity

just aft you have to ask yourself this

every time you look at you know

this sort of a movement is what happens

when

the interests of the powerful with the

law on their side are pitted against

anarchists and in this case the

anarchists are the bitcoin

i just don't see how they're gonna let

that happen and again they don't need to

deal

bitcoin or death flow they can do it

with multiple cuts

and what that might not take bitcoin out

but it will sure

change its investment proposition and

therefore its performance

and the attacks can come in any form

okay and i think the easiest

is legislation um and simply

banning uh bitcoin making a contraband

or making it illegal for uh

ex bitcoin exchanges to accept fiat for

bitcoin

would wipe out all the institutional

buying

most sophisticated investors and drive

bitcoin underground

um and it would certainly take a lot of

the air out of the bitcoin price

uh if if it were banned and the fbi

requested records from the exchanges

they would give them up

all exchanges are tied to all points of

connections and exchanges are tied to

the us dollar system

so it's very difficult to escape tracing

or

or monitoring and who's going to take

the risk if there's prison time

uh is the penalty to leave a trace on

their computer i just don't see why

anybody would take that risk so there's

that's one approach the other one is

more direct you know they can hack

and i know that they can certainly do

sustained hacking

on the on and off ramps into in into

bitcoin trading

uh and if if you think about it if if

the u.s

defense network can be hacked with

backdoor secret

back doors built into the hardware who's

to say can't happen

with with bitcoin and i think again you

have to take those risks into

consideration

uh that they're real and they exist now

i've heard the argument and this is how

the argument comes back from all the

bitcoin people is that

oh yeah there's a handful of senators

that are bitcoin friendly and

are going to provide cover for the

bitcoin investors

and you know that's going to matter just

as much as those handful of

politicians that are pushing proposing

legislation to

make gold and silver money in order to

avoid tax

that's never going to happen either so i

just i just don't

i don't get it how they're going to let

this let

let this happen and they will always

usually excuse the government that is

that the needs of the many outweigh the

needs of the future so i don't think

that

you're going to get the kind of

protection that that that you're hoping

for

and governance governments will use any

excuse

knowing that the real reason is going to

be to

protect their monopoly on currency

and keep their ability to execute

monetary and fiscal policy

but they'll use other excuses if they

want to go after bitcoin

crime consumer protection

the environment you know they can say

you know you know bitcoin produces more

co2 emissions than in a billion cars

um uh money laundering

and the catch-all phrase national

security

and if they can use national security to

renegotiate bilateral trade ideals

don't think don't think that they can't

use it

if bitcoin becomes a threat to the

currency

central banks again i go by the golden

rule they own the gold they make the

rule they have seven trillion dollars

worth of

gold they're not about to allow some

other asset class to to be a store value

to subs

to subsume that that that value it's

just not going to happen

um thank you frank wrapping comments

please okay well i just think that

um i have other points with respect to

countries central banks creating their

own digital currencies

they're all everybody's looking into

china is the most advanced and they're

not going to want the competition

and if bitcoin gets big enough they will

go after it

and eliminate it and that's just the way

the world works

thank you frank uh michael you will now

have a

one minute rebuttal to that

central banks don't own a bitcoin as

soon as one country

starts to buy bitcoin for their central

bank the price is going to rip

first point second um

us dollar is going to be the big winner

from the spread of bitcoin five billion

people are going to have a mobile wallet

on their phone they're going to have a

currency layer

running on lightning rails or running on

a compliant payment rate we'll have the

us dollar might have the euro

the big losers are going to be the

bottom 50 countries they're going to

lose their currency privileges

all the collapsing economies in africa

south america

and asia they won't keep their

currencies people will

will switch over to the dollar bitcoin

is critical to us

technology supremacy and the us dollar

supremacy and one day five billion

people will use the us dollar as a

currency

i don't think the government's going to

fight it i think the government's going

to embrace it

and will the government stand by and let

bitcoin grab

gold's uh capital share and part of the

bond market

well they allowed the the growth of the

vanguard 500 the s p

500 and etfs and bond mutual funds and

gold etfs

i think that as long as the assets sit

and regulated banks and custodians

they won't have a problem with insurance

companies and investors investing in

bitcoin

rather than an s p 500 index fund

finally uh will will there be a

political pushback well there's two to

three million people a week

that are buying into bitcoin around the

world coinbase added a million a week

in the first quarter just on their