Michael Saylor on Bitcoin $100k to $13M and MicroStrategy’s Monster Run

[Music]

well welcome to an extraordinarily

special on the tape Dan Nathan gami but

we're joined by my friend Dan's friend

and obviously the friend of the entire

cryptocurrency Community the CEO of

micro strategies Michael saor is joining

us Michael thank you so much for being

here yeah thanks for having me guys and

we saw Michael uh earlier in the week

Anthony scaramucci's book party you

obviously wrote the forward for that you

were funny in your comments saying that

you know Anthony wrote This Book and I'm

using sort of air quotes in writing it

Anthony was part of the book but he said

at the end of it you know you should

have one to 2% of your portfolio in

Bitcoin and after basically you know

writing this book he cames up with 2%

you made the point wait a second if

you're really passionate about this 2%

is sort of a rounding error so let's

start

there yeah well I think that if you read

an entire book of investment advice or

financial advice you don't want someone

to end the book saying I I don't have a

solution for 98% of your

problem but here's an insurance policy

one or two per is like buying an

insurance

policy but 20 30 40% 50%

75% is like solving the problem so I you

know I I just said like I don't think

you're G to come up with 50 good ideas

and I I think that um the whole idea of

diversification

uh makes sense when you don't know the

answer but you don't want to make a

mistake but I think in the field of

engineering and in many fields in life

it's like when your kid uh is a good

basketball player you don't say I think

you should split your time between

archery and jogging and swimming and

basketball and football and hockey and

16 other things just in case you tell

them to focus on basketball and you

build the plane out of aluminum and you

don't diversify the steel beam into clay

and bronze and balls of wood right if

there's an answer there's an answer and

you just tell someone the answer when

you don't know the answer you're like

yeah we go to Vegas and Gamble and pick

anything but you know don't bet more

than two% of your money right don't

don't you know so my point really is

there's a disconnect between giving

someone a piece of advice to make their

life better and then saying but I 98%

don't believe in it all right so let's

go to the beginning and Dan mentioned

how we met and I'll let the audience

know so I think you would just sort of

come to the realization you spent some

time working on bitcoin and coming to

the conclusion that this made a lot of

sense you joined Morgan Brennan and me I

was able to sort of co-host power lunch

with her it was one of your first

interviews you did sort of in a

meaningful way and you sort of outlined

this vision for micro strategies and

what you're going to do I think it's now

three or four years later my math is a

little squishy but let's just sort of

split hairs a little bit and that plan

is absolutely coming to fruition as we

sit here you have now over 400,000

Bitcoin on your balance sheet I want to

say at an average cost of about

$58,000 or so you can correct me if I'm

wrong but everything you thought was

going to happen is sort of playing out

so let's start there and you know maybe

you can talk about some of the things

that you didn't see happening you did

see happening uh some of the pitfalls

along the way you know give us sort of

that calendar that sort of

timeline yeah I think um the middle of

2020 we're running a $500 million

business with 500 million in cash

generating 75 million in cash flow a

year growing Z to 5% competing against

Microsoft lockdowns hit uh our stock has

zero options uh $2 million of liquidity

a day the options are worthless the

stock is worthless we have no investor

interest we're stuck in a in a

competitive trap there's no way to crawl

out of the competitive trap we've got

500 million in cash generating 4%

interest and all of a sudden Jerome pal

cranks that down to 0% interest and then

everybody's locked in their home and I'm

staring at and then I watch all the

Magnificent Seven stocks

double and then and then you realize

that if you're sitting there all your

capital is going to be siphoned off by

the Magnificent 7 all your human capital

is going to be siphoned off by the

Magnificent

7 right even if you have a good product

it won't be a good product in five years

once all your engineers quit and so

we're kind of stuck in a trap so so at

that point you know you have three

choices you have a death just sell the

company and a lot of people do 99% I had

100 competitors guys 99 of them or

actually all hundred of them solds right

you just exit uh or slow depth I have my

500 million I'm just going to start to

pay all my employees massive cash

bonuses to not quit retention bonuses

but you're just going to go through the

cash at some point you're not you're not

going to be able to get out of your hole

uh you're just going to you're going to

linger on as a zom

or you take a risk and the and the risk

is a transformational acquisition it's

like you know when you buy VMware it's

like C can you buy a company that's

growing 20 to 40% a year that's a that's

a Monster World beater company and can

you buy it for cash or buy it for stock

and maybe you have a new lease on life

and so I looked at you know option one I

looked at option two and I thought well

is there some monster company we can buy

with our 500 million in cash because

right now it's a liability and obviously

I can't I couldn't find one but then I

looked at Bitcoin and I thought Bitcoin

looks like Facebook for money it looks

like it looks like the global monetary

Network it looks like the dominant it

looks like the Google or the Facebook

and so I'm like what's the big Tech

monster Network for

money and Bitcoin looked like that for

me so I thought hey maybe I can buy do a

$500 million acquisition

I buy 500 million of Bitcoin what if you

could buy a company growing 60% a year

at one times

Revenue with cash that you don't need

that that was the idea and and it was

kind of out of frustration and

Desperation but it was it was a

strategic Hail Mary because your choice

is just sell the company give up and the

company would have been sold for $6 a

share in Enterprise Value

okay6 doar a share after 30 years of

life so we do that we get to the 500

million Bitcoin rallies the stock

doubles the stock triples now we just

have an opportunistic run uh we discover

the convertible bond market and they

want to give us 650 million in cash

pretty much for free for free for not

pretty much for free for free if I came

to you and said I'll give you $650

million at 75 basis points go invest in

something can you come up with an idea

for something to invest in that yields

more than 1%

probably if you can't right you're not

in business right probably you can't so

we did that and Bitcoin rallied again

and all of a sudden we were able to

raise a billion for zero okay and then

uh then we realized well might as well

take another 500 million and we and we

took a $500 million loan at 6% and we

thought well bitcoin's gone up 60 we'll

borrow it six we'll loan at 60 or Capt

54 you know and it moved around and then

at some point some Banker called me and

said you know you can do this ATM where

you can actually sell equity in the

market I said you're kidding me really

that's possible uh and actually the

greatest innovation of the past 30 years

guys in the capital markets is the ATM

shelf registration of equity because it

allows an issuer to issue to sell shares

per pursue to an investor you're

basically on the same footing as anybody

else it's a fair thing and for my entire

career if we wanted to sell $100 million

of equity our stock would get hammered

down 20% and so it felt pretty good to

not get hammered 20% and be able to sell

into the market whenever you want and so

now we hit upon this uh this new stage

where we realize we have a commodity

that yields that returns more than the

S&P

index that um that we can buy by selling

our stock so if if you know if you're an

investor and I give you a return High

higher than the S&P how much Capital are

you going to give me infinite so we

started doing that we sold a billion

dollars of that and the short of it is

we went from a $500 million investment

to1 billion of capital raise you know

and the stock you know went up by a

factor of 10 or 20 and then we got then

we got to 2024 and 2024 was a you know

trans by I skipped the crypto winter

where everything crashed is from 66,000

to 16,000 but this is a half hour

podcast so I'll just say it was a roller

coaster we went up to 66 down to 40 up

to 66 down to 16 back but uh and that's

all very colorful but the real point is

we're buying Bitcoin with Equity with

debt we're refinancing the debt we're

we're at all points generally we're

doing it in a creative way and we get to

2024 and um then discovered the value of

volatility I mean really understand it

because in January of 2024 Bitcoin isn't

an asset class and and the second week

the SEC approves those ETFs and then you

start having the snide comments like

well now we don't need micro strategy

anymore they're like just a proxy

they're like a you know a clumsy ETF

substitute we'll just put our money into

the

ETFs but what happened at the same time

was the having was coming and all of the

investors the ball Traders went through

a secular rotation and they started

selling the Bitcoin mining stocks and

looking for something else to

trade so if you track the liquidity in

the options market and in the equity

Market there was a major shift in q1 and

early Q2 where a lot of the the

volatility and the options Traders and

Equity Traders they basically hopped off

a dozen uh Bitcoin mining companies onto

micro strategy because the Bitcoin

miners were going to the having where

their revenues get cut in half so when

that happened our options interest

exploded and we became the number one

options Market when the SEC approved the

ETFs they didn't approve options okay so

uh today our options Market is like $95

billion our options Market is is the

same size as our market cap and then we

discovered that the real strategic

opportunity we had was we can

construct a a balance sheet of permanent

Capital with leverage and uh and when

you take Bitcoin and make it 100% of

your of your stock you're going to trade

probably if Bitcoin is trading with a 60

ball you're going to trade with a 75

ball just because of the uncertainty of

what the management team is going to do

like I have the option to sell Equity or

not sell Equity or we might do something

or not do something I have the option to

do debt or not do debt that opt option

is going to move you from 60 Vol to 70

or 80 Vol then if you actually execute

the option by selling Equity at a

premium or by issuing convertible bonds

you move to 90 or 100 Vol so all of a

sudden we had an equity trading with a

100 I think today it's like 120 ball

basically double uh Bitcoin equity and

now here's the big idea right uh the S&P

is 15 AR 15 ball Bitcoin is 60

60 ball it has been that way for four

years we take a company with permanent

capital and we create something which is

a 100 or 120

Vol 100 to 120

AR okay now that attracts all the

options Traders all the arbitragers all

the Bitcoin maximalists it becomes hot

money uh you you know the call rate if

you sell if you hold a dollar bill for

30 days you're getting uh s for 30

you're getting 480 basis points or

something like that if you hold a

million dollars with the S&P index for

30 days you can get like 15% interest by

selling the 30-day calls at the at the

market if you hold Bitcoin ibit for 30

days what you couldn't sell the options

until just recently but now you can sell

them in generate about 100% interest if

you sell the micro strategy call option

at the market it's 220% interest rate

okay just to hold the the the share um

and so all of a sudden what we've done

is we've created uh a levered uh a

levered flywheel on top of a product

which is already Forex as volatile and

Forex as performant as the

SNP the result is our liquidity explodes

our options interest exploded and we do

a convert bond in q1 a week later we do

another convert Bond that's the first

time in history anybody ever did two

convert bonds back to back two

consecutive weeks then we do another one

in

Q2 then we do another one in Q3 then we

do a billion dollars of ATM in Q3 and

then we start to get into a Groove and

we realize that at the end of the day

you know uh the Market's going to Rally

around some leader and you're either

going to lead in a decisive way or

you're going to sneak around and and

apologetic

be opportunistic or you're going to hide

and wait and so we just decided we're

going to lead I mean John D rockerfeller

decided to roll up the entire

petrochemical industry and he bought out

all of his competitors all of his

customers all of his vendors and first

he did it for for uh cash and he would

they would say okay well pay me this he

go to the bank he'd borrow the money and

he'd give him the cash and at some point

people in the industry said you know

Standard Oil stock is worth more money

than the cash and he just started

issuing the stock and Henry Flagler of

course built Florida with Standard Oil

stock and so there's this point in the

market where the market decides it trust

you and it wants to Rally behind you and

we got to the point in October 30th and

we just said look we're going to put the

question to our shareholders do you want

us to basically build this business or

not and after 40 consecutive Bitcoin

purchases after laying the foundation of

a Bitcoin you know development company

after actually rolling out the kpi of

BTC yield which is we just sold a

billion of equity it was back by 350

million in Bitcoin we bought back the

billion in Bitcoin we captured 650

million of the Arbitrage that works out

to 4% that 4% is like a a Bitcoin

dividend to the shareholders but we're

going to keep it on the balance sheet

roll it forward and reinvest it once we

constructed that model we just said look

we're going to issue $21 billion of

equity and we're going to issue $21

billion of fixed income whether it's

convertible bonds or preferred shares or

corporate bonds a and we're going to do

the per fixed income to say levered

we're going to do the equity when it's

in a massive premium to the underlying

assets to capture the yield and to

delever um if you want to get behind us

on that that's the plan we put put it

out there the next day stock trades up

we outperform every magnificent 7

company we outperform Bitcoin we

outperform every Bitcoin

company yeah so the shareholders spoke I

mean they by it's not a surprise to me I

was 95% certain they would like it

because I meet with them and they were

like this is the most brilliant thing

ever yeah just keep doing this so after

that you know we had a good week and

then November 5th came and uh there's a

red sweep and all of a sudden you have a

pro bit coin White House a pro Bitcoin

Senate a pro Bitcoin Congress Pro

Bitcoin cabinet Bitcoin rages from

68,000

999,000 the short of it is we raised 10

billion do in four years after our

initial announcement and that's like

progressively work and

learning you know we're learning and the

Market's learning to trust us right

we're building a relation my

relationship is not just with My Equity

investors it's with the convertible Bond

investors you you meet with a

convertible Bond investor say I saw you

last quarter I saw you you know you

yelled at me for this and this I fix

this I'll do this we're Partners

together I promise you I will do this

I'm not gonna I'm not gonna mess with

your opportunity I'm not gonna hedge it

I'm not gonna I'm not gonna steal your

trading opportunity I will do this and

this and this the guy goes well and and

I'm looking forward to this future the

go goes thank you for your

cander $500 million

order like if you have trust and people

understand you they'll give you your

money so what happened next is we raised

$ 13.5 billion dollar in four weeks and

I you know if you look at my

tweet my my tweet uh this morning is

basically yeah we generated about a 9

billion dollar plus gain for our

shareholders in those four weeks we're

making hundreds of millions of dollars a

day It's Tricky for conventional

investors to understand it because

you're not capturing shareholder value

creation a gap

accounting because for two reasons one

bitcoin's indefinite and tangible but

two in the history of 50 years of the

capital markets everybody's been on the

US dollar standard which is zero Vol

zero AR against the dollar and this is

the Bitcoin standard 60 ball 60 ARR

against the

dollar we don't have the math the

accounting to keep up with that in the

traditional system and that's why we

have to put forward things like a BTC

yield a BTC spread a BTC gain and those

that understand BTC they get it and

they're long and they love it and those

that don't understand BTC or don't

understand this or just aren't really

interested in putting in the work they

just think it's sham crazy and they're

just G to short it or they're just gonna

whatever so that's where we are today is

from desperation to opportunistic to

strategic

to to Identity at this point we're a

Bitcoin treasury company I'm on a

mission my mission is I'd like to see

the entire world recapitalize on bitcoin

every company every family every

individual every government I think it's

an economic protocol for Prosperity I

think it's as important as English or

fire or electricity or steel I just

think it's good technology it's a good

idea we're we're reaching the fun stage

the next four years I think are kind of

fun we get to we get to do a lot of

interesting things to help people M

Michael you know it's interesting um and

guy and I said this on fast money

earlier in the week also I I've never

I've been in the business for 26 27

years I've never seen anyone take this

sort of uh time to explain what they're

doing which seems somewhat

non-traditional if you're speaking to an

equity investor which you were back in

2022 when you were on our podcast then

you basically said some of the same

exact things that you just ended that

commentary with of like what you'd like

to see you know uh companies do what

you'd like to see households do and I

guess if they listen to you back then um

the outperformance relative to let's say

the mag 7 which you just described would

have been pretty astounding now you also

use the term traditional um investors

when I look at the holders of micr

strategy stock outside of you at almost

9 and a half% I see Capital group

Vanguard Morgan Stanley Jane Street

Black Rock and State Street now those

six or seven you know investors are

usually the largest investors in most of

the the S&P 100 we can agree on that

right so when you are speaking to them

about what you just described to us what

do they think the endgame is right

because a lot of investors have exposure

to this who don't really understand

everything that you just talked about so

what is the endgame when you listen to

an apple or Microsoft or any of the mag

7 they are lading out a 10-year plan how

they're investing their Capital where

they see you know I mean their business

going or the macro going so what do you

say to investors about what the endgame

is you just described what your plan is

right

now yeah I I think the endgame is to is

to securitize the entire asset class

securitize the asset class and and so

when we say we're a treasury company

what we mean is we're the institutional

bridge between a a high energy volatile

crypto commodity that thing we call

Bitcoin with 60 AR 60 volatility what

that means is it's it's always going to

be higher performance than the S&P index

it's always going to be more volatile

than the S&P index as it goes from a

trillion to 250 trillion as it merges

the S&P will adopt Bitcoin and their

performance will uh will drift toward it

and bitcoin's performance will drift

toward the

SNP but as long as we're sitting between

conventional Equity capital and this

crypto Capital we can Arbitrage the

difference and as long as we're sitting

between by 60 ARR 60 VA and the bond

market is six ARR sixf 55 so you have

fixed income which is 55

you have equity which is 1515 and the

traditional Market you have this raw

energy source which is 6060 in the

crypto economy which is 247 365 no one

can stop it Chinese Russians Africans

South Americans people can Panic sell 10

billion of it on Saturday night through

one of the 14,000 Exchange in the world

or 1400 so you've got this raw thing and

then you've got this traditional market

and what we've said to our investors and

I think they're starting to understand

now is so we're going to strip the

volatility strip the performance strip

the risk off of the bottom of the

capital structure give you a like a 6 to

12% investment grade instrument to

invest in a 12 to 24% high yield

instrument to invest in a convertible

investment that gives you 75 % of the

upside to 100% of The Upside but 10% of

the

downside and then when we strip those

performances and those WS via those

fixed income

instruments you're talking like say you

raise 100 billion in capital well you're

grabbing 60 to 65% of the economic boost

for the equity for the for the mstr

equity so when I sell a 100 billion of

fixed income I'm going to tax 60 billion

dollars of boost onto 40 billion of

equity on the MST side that's how we get

to 2x Bitcoin or two and a half or three

and of course the the real magic of the

story is the Baseline is Bitcoin is raw

commodity you either buy that on

coinbase or Bitcoin is wrapped you buy

ibit from Black Rock that's the Baseline

but it turns out most of the world

doesn't want that I mean a lot of the

world

wants high voltage they want 10x

leverage susano wants 10x leverage mum

Soros they want to be up there in the

stratosphere and then some people want

you know that the mstx mstu those those

two ETFs raiseed four billion dollars in

a matter of weeks no marketing they want

4X 3x Bitcoin micro strategy is one and

a half to 2x Bitcoin so some people want

to be up there above the base line look

if you believe in Bitcoin and someone

can give you 2x Bitcoin and they can do

it with with intelligent leverage or

with a balance sheet you trust why

wouldn't you want two times whatever you

want it right and then there's another

world of crypto curious people they're

just tired and bored like how do you

feel about a portfolio of 187

Diversified preferred stocks that give

you 520 basis points you know with and

it's like okay you on the 16th tranch of

a of the 18,000 Regional Bank and like

and it's like qip

99742 there's no

volatility you can't pledge it as cloud

or you can't borrow against it so

there's a world $300 trillion of board

money that's waiting to die getting two

three% and then there's another 200

trillion of hot money micro strategy is

just going to to sell all of those

instruments up and down the chain while

we ignore the Baseline and I just make

this one point like when you're when

you're arbitraging this you know you're

asking the question well how fast is it

appreciating so Bitcoin is plus 60 and

let's just say because it's plus 30 to

60 versus the US dollar and my long-term

forecast is 29% for 21 years so so we're

plus 30 to 60 then the next question is

how volatile is it versus the dollar

Bitcoin 60 volatile but you can imagine

it's going to be plus 30 to 60 more

volatile then you ask the question how

fast is the investment cycle if I borrow

a billion or or raise a billion of

equity and I invest it in a real estate

project it takes five years 1,500 days

if I invested in Bitcoin it takes one

day I'm running the investment cycle a

thousand times faster and then the last

question is how a creative is the

capital raise so if I'm selling it at

three times net asset value you're

capturing a 66% spread the convertible

bonds are capturing an 80% spread when

you sell a convert at an 80% spread and

you do a billion of it it literally

means that you captured 80 $800 million

of capital gain on the day you did it

and you capture all of the capital gain

for your shareholders Forever on the 800

million and so when you're raising 800

million and then you're investing it at

60% ARR or 30% right the amount of

accretion is screaming so what what are

we going to do well we're going to do

this 42 billion and then rinse and

repeat and double it and double it and

double it and double it and you're going

to say like well where do it end well I

guess when we've taken 1% of the fixed

income Market which is3 trillion

and when we levered it up and we've got

10 billion you know we bought three

trillion of Bitcoin and we're trading at

10 trillion dollars in market cap we'll

be growing 20% a year all right so that

I mean that's the end game right so

here's my question to you so you know

gold is extraordinarily mature market

and I'm going to round up here so gold

right now is an 18 trillion market cap

industry asset whatever you want to call

it Bitcoin today is about 2 trillion so

it's

11% where do you where should that ratio

be and then by giving us that ratio we

can back into a bitcoin price oh look I

mean bitcoin's going to go to 10x gold

easy just keep in mind right a public

company it's got to hold a commodity on

its balance sheet because it can't hold

Securities so you've either got a choice

of a digital commodity called Bitcoin

which is 60% ARR gold is seven

7% real estate is 10% bonds are five 4%

and and everything less than 15% doesn't

beat the cost of capital so the S&P sets

the hurdle so gold fails it's a treasury

asset for everybody in the world Bitcoin

succeeds I I think you could if you call

Bitcoin digital gold it's 10x gold but I

still think it undersells Bitcoin right

because Bitcoin is digital Capital it's

not just replacing gold it's going to

replace real estate the S&P index and

but any Capital asset held by an

institution or a wealthy family so right

now wealthy families and wealthy

families and

investors don't use bonds or gold as a

capital asset they would use the S&P

index or stocks as capital asset but uh

Banks and regulated corporations

operating companies aren't allowed to

use Securities as a capital asset

they're knocked down they don't want to

use gold it's not liquid enough and

fungible you know it's not liquid enough

and so they use real estate and you get

a Reit or real estate development

company but real estate is you know less

than the S&P index and not volatile if

you give up the AR and the volatility

S&P you're trading down so that's that's

not really a winner and then you're

stuck with bonds and bonds are dead

money a l ability so yeah I think bit

I've said before Bitcoin it should

reasonably become a a multi hundred

trillion dollar asset class right my

forecast is 13 million a coin by 2045

base case upside and downside I just

expect it's another way to say it is

it's 60% AR at 60 ball it's going to

track toward 20 20% AR and 20 ball when

bit when S&P is 1515 over 20 years it'll

just step down as it approaches that

Target okay so here you go so this is my

final question I promise so let's just

say pres president-elect Trump and his

cabinet members and the treasury

secretary all listening to this podcast

they just heard what Michael saor said

this is going to come completely out of

left field but what if they say wait a

second you know this is this is

basically property what if they say the

400,000 Bitcoin on your balance sheet

eminent domain Michael S are the best

interest of the United States for us to

have them that is that an existential

risk I mean it's happened before

thoughts on

that you know in a in a communist or

socialist state in Venezuela and North

Korea and Cuba they expropriate property

so if if a government becomes communist

or socialist then they're going to take

your property I suppose so it's an

existential threat but what I would say

to them is the smart thing to do is

think about money as bifurcated into

currency and capital and the US dollar

is destined to be the world's Reserve

currency and the smart thing to do is

just reg is just normalize stable coins

or digital currency and let Banks and

corporations issue US dollar stable coin

like tether and then that market will go

from 150 billion to 10 trillion and the

US dollar will become the medium

Exchange in North Korea South Korea Cuba

China Russia Africa South America and

probably most of Europe literally if you

want the dollar to become the world

Reserve currency and move between eight

billion people to speed of light on

Android phones it's easy to do just

normalize a digital currency with a

digital assets framework you will have

10 trillion dollars of demand for

treasury bills to back it and then I

would say acknowledge that the world

Capital Network right now is real estate

and equity and if you talk to any

billionaire no one is bragging about

holding all of their wealth in cash or

bonds it's real estate it's equity and

Bitcoin is the emerging World Reserve

Capital Network the most intelligent

thing you can do is just sell the gold

buy Bitcoin it's a free trade gold was a

good idea in the 19th century no one

thinks gold is going to be the capital

network of the 21st century so just

trade the gold for Bitcoin you'll have

25% of the Bitcoin Network you'll make

100 trillion dollars on the trade if you

don't want to trade the gold just issue

currency it's a little bit of money it's

free print money buy 25% of the Bitcoin

Network when the Chinese billionaires

the Russian billionaires the Europeans

when they all basically start buying

Bitcoin the big winner will be the

United States it's it's not more compli

licated then you can have Louisiana

California and Alaska for free by

writing a little paper check you know or

sell the past sell the stupid gold gold

is going to by the way gold is going the

way of silver which went the way of

glass beads which will go the way of

copper tokens which goes the way of the

giant Stone coin of the Yap people it's

going to be

demonetized because you can't zap a

billion dollars of gold from an Android

phone to iPhone in one Split Second it's

not complicated everybody's going to

figure it out so so I'm willing to

accept the existential risk of the

expropriation of my property if the

United States goes full on communist but

you can expect that I will agitate in

favor of capitalism between now and then

and I'm an optimist so I I I don't

dismiss the presence of evil in the

world you see North Korea you see Cuba

you see Venezuela there is evil it did

happen I just happen to believe that at

the end of the day Bitcoin is a force of

good and it's going to bring people back

from the brink and it's going to remind

them that maybe they should embrace

technology and freedom and capitalism

and property rights and and all of those

things that made America great all right

Michael one last one here I suspect

you're a Sci-Fi guy so here's the deal

if we reach artificial general

intelligence the AGI which I think a lot

of uh you know folks who are in the

Bitcoin uh think might do sooner than

later don't the machines take the

Bitcoin right out of the gate they won't

take it they will adopt it right you're

going to have billions of AIS and they

can't get bank accounts right and and by

the way the AIS are smarter than us and

so if you were an AI you wouldn't invest

in gold or silver or glass beads or

copper tokens and you wouldn't buy

Securities and you wouldn't buy real

estate right for not because it's hard

to buy it but by the way it is hard to

buy it they'll be blocked from the 20th

century economy no one's going to sell

the AI the house and they can't trade

bonds right so they'll be blocked from

the 20th century economy but the truth

is they'll look at it and they'll go

well don't we want to actually grab

billions of dollars of stuff that's

going to I'm going to grab five or 10%

of all the money in the world forever

that moves at the speed of light that's

in cyers space that no one could steal

from me why wouldn't you I mean I think

they're smarter than us and they're

faster than us so yeah uh Bitcoin will

be the reserve currency of cyberspace or

let me restate that before I get myself

trouble it's the reserve capital of

cyberspace if you're going to store your

Capital asset and as the AI accumulate

it uh they're just going to drive the

price through the roof and so if you're

a person the smart thing to do is front

run the AIS they're not going to steal

it from you they can't steal it they're

just going to trade

you pay

and rubles and real estate or whatever

else Services you want for your Bitcoin

and they're going to keep it because why

wouldn't you it's the smart thing to do

Michael saor the executive chairman of

micro strategies a Visionary clearly and

somebody as you know you think about

steadfast people that have had their

beliefs you know you mentioned

Rockefeller I mean there will be people

there will be books written about you

being this Century's Rockefeller so

Michael S your time is valuable we

appreciate it thank you so much for

joining us on the tape thanks for having

me guys always a pleasure

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