Bitcoin Treasury Companies: The New Class in Finance with Michael Saylor, Brian Dixon, and Mark Moss

gentlemen.

So, we'll try to keep this tight and

maybe leave time for a few questions at

the end before they turn off the lights,

kick us all off. Uh, when somebody asks

you, "What's a treasury company?"

Well,

a treasury company is a is a corporation

that's capitalized on digital capital

that issues securities against the

underlying digital capital. Why is it a

new? It is a new class of finance

company, a new type of company. There's

insurance companies, there's banks,

there, you know, fund companies, there's

finance companies, there are REIT, real

estate development companies. There's

plenty of types of companies and there's

operating companies. Why is a treasury

company new and different? It's because

the Investment Company Act of 1940

prohibited publicly traded companies

from capitalizing or leveraging on

securities portfolios. That's why

there's never been a MAG7 treasury

company. There's never been an S&P

treasury company. You can leverage and

you can you can 100%. This is why Warren

Buffett has to sell Apple stock. This is

why the Bergkshire Hathway portfolio of

securities stays below 40% of its liquid

assets. That's why he has so much uh

treasury bills. The investment company

act created a carve out for sovereign

debt of the United States government.

And so even though those are technically

securities, they're deemed to be not

securities or commodities for the

purposes of the SEC 40 act. That being

the case, for for any of these

strategies to work, you have to go to

100% or more leverage. If you're only

holding 10% of something, it's not

enough exposure to make it a type of

company. So, the treasury company was

born with uh with the arrival of digital

commodities and specifically Bitcoin,

the digital scarcity. Um, you could

lever a public company on gold, but gold

is not exciting enough. 99% of investors

don't think gold is a good long-term

asset. it it kind of tries to keep up

with the S&P, but as a practical matter

to to break through a new thing, it

needs to be an order of magnitude

better. And so, because Bitcoin has been

able to outperform the S&P by 3 or 4x,

it's enough better that you could

justify taking the risk on a brand new

revolutionary thing. So what you see is

now the rise of 180 public companies

capitalized on Bitcoin. You also see an

explosion of digital asset treasury

companies based on Ethereum and Salana.

Why? Because they're de facto being

deemed commodities by the current

administration. So they have de facto

commodity status. Uh if anything if any

other token were deemed a security, you

couldn't pursue this strategy. That

means all told you got about 250

companies that are digital asset

treasuries and um you know and you would

say well can I do it with gold? Not

really. Gold's too slow, too boring.

Real estate, you've got REITs, but real

estate underperforms the S&P. Soybeans,

oil, people tried all sorts of things.

But at the end of the day, if you've got

a digital commodity which outperforms

the S&P, you have enough performance to

create a treasury company.

Now, the issue is how will the industry

develop?

And we're in year one of this thing

being birthed. And of course, 90% of the

investors don't even believe it's a

category. They don't even recognize it.

1% are enthusiastic about it. two or 3%

are stumbling around. And with that as a

preamble, I guess Mark, what are your

thoughts? What do you think's going to

happen in this in this industry? And

what are your opinions of treasury

companies in general?

>> Well, I'm generally favorable of them,

but as far as what I think is going to

happen, I mean, we're trying to think

into the future. And I think, you know,

unless you're Michael Sailor and you've

studied the history of technology as

well as read the fantasy books, it's

hard for most of us to see the future.

But when we have a new asset like

Bitcoin that's the digitization of

capital and it moves at the speed of

capital, we have a new set of building

blocks to build new things. And so we

can kind of think about the financial

system as we have today and then how

this transforms it. And so we can kind

of think about maybe what doesn't

survive in the financial system and

maybe what moves forward in the

financial system. And so if you think

about the $700 trillion sitting in the

financial system that's earning

somewhere between 0 to 8% right now

today. Well, we can take this

digitization of capital and then we can

slice it up as sailor showed us with

different types of preferred and

different types of instruments that can

provide something as he said typically

treasuries has sat in that spot. We have

250 million people in the developed

world right now retirees depending on

some source of income again 700 trillion

of capital sitting on that income and it

needs

better income better yield something

safer than bonds. And so this new asset,

this new digital asset that moves

faster, that gives us this better KGAR,

that gives us that room to then leverage

into the S&P 500 and leverage into the

um debt and credit markets, it allows us

to do these things. So I think some of

the types of new financial institutions

that we see kind of getting built on top

of this are sort of interesting. Like

obviously we're still going to have

creators creating more than they consume

and there's going to need to be savings.

So, there's going to be financial

institutions that will handle security,

that will handle um custody and things

like that. I think we'll always have a

need for credit. So, we'll have

financial institutions that are still

providing credit. Um people are still

going to need to buy houses. They're

still going to buy cars. We're still

entrepreneurs that need capital for

businesses as well as scaling

businesses.

It'll be, as Mises would call it,

commodity credit versus circulating

credit. We'll be issuing credit off of

savings. It's not just conjuring out of

thin air. Um, I think insurance is going

to be a very interesting um, financial

model into the future, specifically with

Bitcoin.

Warren Buffett showed us the power of

having a float with insurance companies.

So, imagine if you're good at adjusting

risk, if you're good at writing risk,

you get the power of the float, put that

into a Bitcoin standard. U, I think

that's pretty pretty powerful. I think

obviously I think about liquidity. So,

Bitcoin is of course peer-to-peer

electronic cash. And so like I could

peer-to-peer electronic cash with any of

you here and that's great. But if you're

Walmart with 10,000 stores globally

doing $680 billion, peer-to-peer

electronic cash isn't really working. So

you're still going to need payment

providers. You're still going to need to

pay hundreds of thousand employees. You

need payroll companies. So a lot of

financial solutions in that space. And

then ultimately the last category I

still see I think a lot of improvement I

think where these treasury companies

move into this financial future is is

securities. So, we're still going to

need companies will still need to raise

money, still need to bundle the money,

we'll still need price discovery in the

markets and things like that. But the

difference is that we've had, you know,

this equity security market for 430

years built on fiat. And I think it all

just transitions over to Bitcoin moves

faster. It's stronger, more transparent.

And so really what happens is the Wall

Street, the financial institutions are

still there, but the Wall Street

scaffolding that we have today is mostly

collapsed. Things move faster, more

transparent, and on a Bitcoin standard.

>> Brian, what do you think? Yeah, from my

perspective, uh, one of the things I

find very interesting is 13 years ago

when I got involved in Bitcoin, there

was a concept that I discovered that

really inverted my thinking around the

opportunity for investing and changed my

mind around it. Historically, you have

the protocol layer and the application

layer. And the protocol layer would be

things like IP, internet protocol, or

HTTP or SMT for simple mail transfer

protocol. And you could never buy a

chunk of that to monetize off its growth

and adoption and value over time. You

had to invest at the application layer

which was businesses like AOL and Yahoo

and Google that had these different

providers and you monetized off that. So

all the value accretion occurred at the

application layer because we didn't have

the chance to buy in at the protocol

layer. Then when blockchain and Bitcoin

was developed that investing scheme got

inverted, right? We can now buy a chunk

of that protocol and we can own it and

hold it. And if you look at the return

profile over time versus owning the

protocol layer compared to owning the

applications built on top, the protocol

layer has significantly outperformed the

applications. Now with Bitcoin treasury

companies, what we're seeing is a

merging of both of those things

together. We're getting exposure to own

the protocol layer with the bridge that

is the treasury company itself. And I

think that's a phenomenally interesting

idea for where the future's going to go

for these financial institutions and the

outperformance opportunities with that.

I don't think we've even seen the

beginning of where that can go. And if

we think about it from a systems

perspective, when you have an old

failing system, i.e. our traditional

fiat banking system that exists today,

these systems are not going to just

naturally adopt Bitcoin because it's

going to disrupt their own business

models. So what happens? You have to

build the brand new system on your own.

So it disrupts those models and then

they are forced to adopt it over time.

And that's what we're seeing with

Bitcoin treasury companies. And I think

as we think from a future-f facing

perspective and I agree with everything

that you noted about the different types

of products that can come into it, but

what about the markets that don't even

exist yet and how Bitcoin treasury

companies can engage with them. So let's

walk through an example. Think of

artificial intelligence virtual agents,

right? Every time we question Grock or

Perplexity or Chad GPT, there is an

electric electricity and computational

expense that's required to query that

for it to process the data and

information that comes back to us.

Right? Eventually, we will have a

virtual economy of trillions and

trillions of artificial intelligent bots

doing things that we aren't even aware

that they're doing, right? And there's

going to be a computational and

electricity expense with those bots

doing that labor. Well, they can't set

up a Bank of America account. What can

they accept? They can accept something

like Bitcoin. So what if maybe the

future of Bitcoin treasury companies,

one of the products and services they

provide is to serve the ever growing

adoption of the artificial intelligent

market by providing financial services

and products in an internet native way.

So I think that's an interesting thing

to think about in future and the years

to come.

>> I I think it's interesting to think bit

Bitcoin is the protocol and when I look

at it, I think that's my risk. If you're

a Bitcoin maximalist, that's your

risk-free rate. And so I think it's like

29% a year for the next 20 years. That's

the if you want to buy the protocol. And

uh if I want to invest in anything else,

it's got to outperform that by a large

margin. It's got to, you know, it's got

to be like 40% a year or 50% a year. And

so the Bitcoin treasury companies create

things. Uh security is an application on

the protocol. IBIT is an application on

the protocol. MSTR, STRC,

their billion dollar, 10 billion,

hundred billion dollar application of

the protocol, you know, they move.

People kept waiting for it. Well, how do

we get a circular economy? And how do we

get people to spend Bitcoin? Well,

three, four, five billion dollars a day

trades in six hours in the layer three,

you know, application like on MSTR or 4

billion or 324 billion in IBIT trade

every, you know, 6 hours. So, so those

protocol the protocol is being fed by

the applications and and u I think

that'll continue and people are going to

invent them at a ferocious rate. I think

since this is the last uh the session of

the day, I'd like to throw open the

floor to questions for all of you. So

maybe you guys can go around and anybody

that's got a question uh for any of us

about Bitcoin Treasury companies or or

approaches or what they think will

happen, feel free to throw it out

because I think we can make this

interactive.

I I think for for sure

there yeah there's the question of which

will be the first bank that plugs in

Bitcoin, what'll be the first insurance

company, the first reinsurance company,

what happens when you plug this into a

company like an Apple or a Microsoft or

a tech company. You know what happens

when a government prints its own

currency to buy Bitcoin? You know, all

of these company what happens when a

city does it or a state does it? We're

st the way you know you're early is you

haven't had a city sell a bond to buy

Bitcoin. You haven't had a state finance

with Bitcoin. You haven't had a country

do it yet. You've had a few companies

and people you know we have we have yet

to get a positive article in the Wall

Street Journal after 5 years.

Like I I'm going to declare success when

we get one article that's positive. like

Bloomberg said some positive things, but

we're still very early and the next 10

years will be again, it's like the gold

rush, but but imagine the prochemical

industry in 1870

and you know, and you're looking at

plexiglass today and nylon and polyester

and the like and lycra and what were

they thinking in 1870, right? Who's got

the first question? Go ahead.

>> I've got the first question here. So,

uh, Michael, this might be a tad

premature and self- serving in some

sense, but if you are president in 28,

I'm lobbying for, uh, OM director. And I

had seen David Foley here. I put a bug

in Larry Leard's ear as well that, uh,

you know, the broader implications. And

I joke but you know for those of us who

you know number go up is nice but uh you

know we got here through uh you know

kind of being pissed off at the uh you

know the current system and the GFC and

everything we've seen. So you know maybe

we did come here for number go up but

you know we're here for the revolution

now. So it was uh

>> more just nice to you know be here and

be hanging with our people uh this

today. So I guess there wasn't even a

question there.

>> Thanks. Thank you. That was a easy one.

>> Thanks.

>> Yeah, some of the recurring themes today

have been kind of staying in your lane,

keeping it simple and transparent for

your investors, but also maintaining

that leverage. Um, in the example you

used, Michael, was standard oil was

producing oil and had a runway before

the car was invented, and that really

spurred that next use case for the for

the oil products. In your mind, what is

that next use case going to look like

that that transforms the the marketplace

as we know it? Yeah, I I think the

initial use case is digital equity,

right? Equity, you know, levered equity

on Bitcoin itself and people are getting

that and Metapinet just sold $1.4

billion of it last week. So that's kind

of proof that there's a market there.

The next use case is is credit. And you

know, we saw convertible bond credit

that you know, we became the largest

convertible bond issuer in the world.

And uh I would I would say after my last

20 deals or 20 credit deals, if if I was

giving advice to a Bitcoin treasury

company, I would say you ought to sell

an equity, which is amplified Bitcoin,

try to get to 2x Bitcoin, and you ought

to sell a simple credit instrument like

a preferred that's a treasury preferred

stock, variable yield on top of a

currency. pay 400 basis points more than

the Swiss Frank risk-free rate or pay

400 basis points more than the risk-free

rate in Europe or 400 basis points more

than the JPY yen rate or 400 basis

points more than sulfur. Go do that.

strip the volatility, strip the

duration, you know, strip the delta out

of the instrument and just, you know, if

there's anything that equates to

gasoline or sorry, uh, kerosene, like

pure highly refined crude oil, the

equivalent of kerosene in our industry,

I think, is pure credit spread, no risk,

right? Just 500 basis points, no vault,

no risk. It's like when I asked

everybody, who's got a bank account?

Everybody, what do you do? Do you want

your bank account to pay you 500, pay

you 10% interest? Everybody. So, a

perfect, you know, it's not the only

model. There's a thousand models. And

so, I don't want you to think this is

the only one or but but like I would

literally say to someone like a

MetaPlanet, sell Metaplanet is 2, three,

4x Bitcoin. Sell Meta Yield is 6% in

yen. That can become a trillion dollar

company. and you don't need any other

idea because you're just fixing the

entire money market in in that currency

frame of reference. So, so I think if

you want to be very simple, it's just

extract the pure yield, throw away the

credit risk and the volatility if you

can pull it off. And that's the last

thing I did after 5 years of doing other

stuff. So, I'm just kind of saying you

can skip my like the negative of

starting now is oh, you're you're later

than us. The positive starting now is

you get to skip my first year, four

years of mistakes and I just gave you

the answer. If I could fast forward and

do again, I'd be like I'd skip

everything. I would sell stretch. I

would keep the equity and I would focus

upon selling that treasury preferred

stock to every insurance company, every

credit investor, every retail investor,

plug it into every bank. Now, now again,

I I can't tell you I'm sure it works

forever in 10 years. If it did work and

we're back here, then I could say it

works. Right now, this is my opinion.

Next. Yeah.

>> Hi there. First of all, a massive thank

you to everyone in the room for such a

great vibe and for such enriching

conversations. The question I have for

the panel is as I've been trying to

orange peel people and the family office

I'm responsible for. I think one

question that I find very hard to answer

is stretch strike. They're all great but

in terms of payment of dividends, what

about operating cash flows? How

sustainable is it? Will the Bitcoin will

need to be sold at some point? So, how

would you advise me to address that

question bang on so that it's a

no-brainer?

>> Yeah, I think the answer is the treasury

company is sitting on a mountain of hard

assets. In a rational market, it'll just

sell the equity to pay the dividend. in

an irrational market where the equity

decouples from the Bitcoin fundamentals,

you're going to sell the Bitcoin

volatility or you're going to you're

going to engage in derivatives trading

in order to extract the yield directly

from the Bitcoin. If necessary, you're

going to you're probably going to sell a

future, right? you're going to sell a uh

an out-ofthe- money call option against

the Bitcoin or you're going to enter

into a basis trade and and in the worst

case, you're just going to sell the

underlying Bitcoin itself because as

long as Bitcoin is growing at a multiple

of the underlying dividend, you always

have that as a final option. By the way,

the reason that you don't immediately go

there is the most taxefficient thing you

can do is sell the equity. When you sell

the equity, there's no tax.

you can generate, we could generate

billions of dollars by selling

derivatives on the Bitcoin. We generate

a taxable event and so we don't do it

because it's just not as efficient. It

and it doesn't expand the capital

structure of the company. But if

somebody says, well, how are they going

to pay the dividend? The answer is

you're going to sell the equity. Well,

if you can't sell the equity, then the

answer is we're going to sell

derivatives on the underlying Bitcoin

itself. And that market has got there

there's $60 billion dollars of liquidity

in Bitcoin. So if you can't sell the

Bitcoin derivatives, which is a very

healthy market, you're going to sell the

Bitcoin into the into the market. Oh, go

ahead, Mark.

>> I was if I could just add on to that for

a second. I would also just sort of

challenge you here sailor talking

earlier just now about 10 years. I'll be

back in 10 years. I'll tell you if it

worked. Earlier today, he was talking

about I I can't tell you about 15 25

years. I'll tell you about 10 years. So

right now we have this massive

disruption with AI and all the business

models as we see them today are being

disrupted and so the traditional model

is we'll pay you back with future cash

flows. Okay, what future cash flows in

10 years you're still going to have

future cash flows versus sitting on the

assets. So right most people are paying

you back on a future a promise a future

that I'll have those cash flows with no

guarantee because you have no assets

versus actually having the asset base

today. He's given you lots of other ways

he can pay the dividend. worst case

scenario, we don't come to that, but

worst case scenario, you have the asset.

And so, I think it's a different way

that it's being done today because we

have this new asset, right? Uh,

financial capital. Um, but that's how I

would sort of address that.

>> One thing I was going to layer on too,

cuz I I meet with family offices all the

time. And one of the things that helps I

think them understand when you're

advising them is not only are you

walking through the mechanics of what

Michael and Mark just laid out from like

a cash flow perspective, a dividend

perspective, but you also have to get

them to understand the value of network

effects, right? And so when you look at

things like metaf's law where you take

the number of users in the network and

you square it, you multiply it by the

transactional value flowing through the

network and you extrapolate that over

time, you're seeing that you're going to

have this asset that you're going to

hold on to as the adoption rate

continues to grow that is going to

astronomically outperform basically

anything else that we're seeing in the

world right now. And so when you really

help people wrap their head around from

a family office perspective, not only is

it a sustainable business from what

they're doing in the public markets, but

the very base foundation of their

business, which is the acquisition and

reutilization of Bitcoin and how that

gets adopted and the network grows over

time with an exponential growth curve,

that's just going to impact the stock as

well. And so I think that helps them

kind of wrap their head around it. Not

only is this this cash flowing business

doing XYZ with these different products

that are Bitcoin denominated, it's

moving that network adoption along its

path as well. Mark, Brian, pretend he's

not sitting next to you. What's

something that you think Michael Sailor

and strategy should do or you would like

to see them do? Pretend he's not there.

[Music]

I I here's my opinion. I think that over

time, when you look at things, I think

that

we're basically creating a Bitcoin

denominated financial institutions for

the future, right? This is going to

become, in my opinion, the new type of

central banking system, right? you're

going to have a massive one in each

jurisdiction. They're going to be the

largest and you'll have smaller

derivative branches that'll expand over

time. So, I think the natural

progression if that thesis ultimately

plays out is what does a bank offer

today? If we're going to create a global

monetary system that's Bitcoin

denominated, you have to be able to

issue the exact same kinds of products

largely that we see today in the markets

for consumers and institutional

investors to use that um we use with

traditional finance. So, we're going to

see lending and mortgages and things of

that nature over time, but you have to

have enough Bitcoin in stockpile to be

able to do that to make that effective.

And I think that's step one. That's what

we're going through right now. And we're

seeing over the last couple years is the

aggregation of the Bitcoin holding it.

And the innovations and financial

products that actually merge with the

traditional financial products in the

existing banking ecosystem is what's

going to evolve.

And I'll answer that question, but I'm

going to flip it upside down. And it's

rather than be critical and tell him

what he should do better. I I'm going to

emphasize a couple points I think

everybody should take note of. And so

one I would say you hear him over and

over and over being laser focused,

single-minded focused. And the problem

that everybody has is doing too many

things. Uh in a private conversation uh

in Prague, you told Alexander, you'll

probably reach a billion, a hundred

billion, a trillion, but you probably

won't because you'll probably try to be

a conglomerate and you'll take your eye

off the ball. And so this this

single-minded focus and most of us try

to do too many things. And so I think

about that. Uh I would also say while

certainly we haven't seen mainstream

media be very favorable, there's also a

massive misunderstanding.

But to his point, not only has he gone

out and shown the model, he's out there

constantly trying to educate the world,

teach changing the name of the company,

teaching the strategy to everybody for

us to follow, cooperation,

collaboration, but also education as

well. And so I would say rather than

trying to tell what he should do

different, I think we should all take

note of those things. And so whether you

know you have a background in insurance

like Jeff, you know, and maybe insurance

is your thing, but for each of us to

follow what that thing is that we have,

be single-minded, focus, educate,

collaborate along the way.

>> Michael, you got two minutes. Close it.

Michael,

>> the question is, what would you do

better? No, I'm joking.

>> I think I've talked enough. Next

question.

>> Hi. Thank you, Michael, and everyone

here today. What an incredible day of

knowledge and wisdom and passion as

well. Um I'm a part of the team that is

re recently launching 21

milliontories.com

and uh we're launching Hollywood level

TV film production for the Bitcoin

treasury space in particular. And I

wanted to ask when you envision the year

the the world that you imagine 10 years

from now what kind of TV film content

education or entertainment do you

imagine needs to be out in the world?

It'll be digital. It'll be interactive.

It'll probably be AI driven. And it'll

be personalized.

You know, at some point, I think like I

think that all of our education

institutions go away and you get like an

AI professor that teaches you whatever

you want that's better than every

professor that ever lived. In fact, this

combination of every professor that ever

lived. And I think you're, you know, at

some point the movie becomes a walkth

through world. And at some point uh you

know all your entertainment becomes

personalized and and we can see it

happening right now but I think a decade

from now we'll be blurring the

distinction between personalized

entertainment and personalized education

which is a good thing.

>> Thank you Michael. Thank you everyone.

We will see you in January and we will

see you at PubKy in about an hour. Thank

you for coming.

>> Thank you. Bitcoin custody is evolving

and on-ramp leads this change with

multi-institution custody, eliminating

single points of failure.

Instead of one institution or complex

private keys, On-Ramp secures your

Bitcoin in a segregated cold storage

multi-IG vault backed by three

independent institutional-grade

custodians.

No single custodian can move funds by

themselves, providing an unprecedented

level of security that traditional

custody solutions simply can't match.

Protected by a 100 million Lloyds of

London insurance policy, all

transactions are fully auditable

onchain, never rehypothecated, and

executed only at your explicit

direction. This means complete

transparency and control over your

assets at all times.

Beyond custody, OnRamp delivers

comprehensive Bitcoin financial

services, including lending, trading,

inheritance planning, IRA, and more.

On-ramp functions as your private

banking partner, coordinating keyholder

activity, removing technical burdens,

and providing a personalized trust

minimized experience tailored to your

specific wealth preservation goals.

Whether you're new to Bitcoin or an

experienced holder, Onramp's approach

helps secure generational wealth with

unmatched security and peace of mind.

Visit onrampbitcoin.com

today to learn more, sign up, or book a

free consultation with their team of

Bitcoin custody experts. Hey guys,

today's episode is brought to you by

Stamp Seed. If you're in cold storage,

you know how important it is to protect

your seed phrase. That's why I recommend

you head over to stampseed.com and check

it out for yourself. This seed phrase

storage device is one solid piece of

titanium. There are no loose pieces and

you can hammer your seedphrase in letter

by letter. When you go to stampseed.com,

use promo code tim for a 15% discount

across the website. That's Tim 15. Join

us at the win in Las Vegas February 23rd

through the 26th, 2026 for Bitcoin for

corporations. Use code KOTZ when you

grab your tickets at strategy.com and

we'll see you there. This episode is

brought to you by Arch Lending, the

premier provider of cryptobacked loans

designed for both individual and

institutional investors. At Arch, your

digital assets work for you without

selling them. Arch offers flexible loan

options tailored to your needs. Backed

by industry leaders like Morgan Creek

Digital, Castle Island Ventures, and

Galaxy Ventures, Arch Lending is setting

a new standard in cryptobacked lending.

Are you ready to unlock the potential of

your crypto assets? Visit

archlandending.com

to learn more and configure your loan

today. Are you looking for comprehensive

analytics on corporate Bitcoin adoption?

Strategy Tracker delivers real-time

insights into how companies are

executing their Bitcoin strategies

completely free. Monitor NAV premiums,

cost basis performance, and track how

corporate Bitcoin treasuries perform

against the market. Upgrade to Premium

for just $3.99 a month and unlock

exclusive benefits like detailed market

rankings, real-time trading volume

analysis, and advanced performance

metrics for corporations embracing

Bitcoin. Apply code KOTZ at checkout for

100% off your first month of premium.

Strategy Tracker is your essential tool

for measuring the effectiveness of

corporate Bitcoin strategies. Visit

strategytracker.com

and gain the analytical edge in

understanding the Bitcoin treasury

phenomenon.