Video - The Bitcoin Bull Bull Bull with Michael Saylor

all right i think uh i think i want to

dig into some of your ideas now thoughts

around bitcoin

um okay so

we talked about a few things the other

day before we spoke before we've

recorded sorry

you you're talk to me about your bitcoin

value proposition and the size of the

opportunity

i i think if i was talking to an

investor

i would say bitcoin is the ideal

treasury reserve

asset and it's the ideal treasury

reserve

asset because for the first time in

human history

humans have figured out how to create

a digital monetary network

which is conservative in nature it

conserves

the energy you put into it it's closed

system

there's 21 million coins in the system

and i don't i

wouldn't bother with the discussion of

the havings and

and the block subsidies going down i

just don't think it matters

there's 21 million coins that are going

to be in this system

the only thing that can happen is

it heats up or it cools down if people

are buying into this system

at a price greater than the moving

200-day average a 200

week average it's heating up and if

they're if they're selling

it's cooling down so

bitcoin is is is um a digital gold

and it achieves what what gold bugs

wanted to achieve

it creates a perfectly scarce

asset there is no inflation

to speak of if you took the the extra

1.5 million coins that are coming divide

by 100 years you're like

0.1 inflation a year if you want to

compare it

to something in essence there's no

inflation

compared to gold gold is going to debase

two to three percent

under the best case which means you're

going to lose 88

of your wealth in a gold system you're

going to lose

none of that in a bitcoin system in a

fiat system you're going to lose 99

of your wealth because of at a 7

debasement rate and

if you're looking at stores of value

if you put all your if you put your

value into big tech

then it's a crowded trade and you're

taking all the counterparty risk the

execution risk the competitive risk

the regulatory risk that all of these

large companies hold

and the the likelihood that um

that's going to last for 100 years it's

pretty low

um they're they're it's a crowded trade

it's a known trade

people are already in it it's not an

asymmetric risk-reward trade-off

it might go up it might go down there's

not a lot of people that think that

apple computer is going to go up by a

factor of 10

from here or by a factor of 100 from

here

10 years ago if you wanted a good

investment idea buying facebook amazon

apple and google when they were

unpopular

but dominant was a good idea right

if you're a tech investor you buy a

dominant technical network when they're

dominant and by dominant means 100

billion dollars they crushed everybody

and they're 90 of the market but they're

unpopular

when when uh the rest of wall street

doesn't quite get it

when warren buffett hasn't bought it

right it's unpopular that's that's your

opportunity because

you could have bought amazon and got 20

at your money

you could you could have bought amazon

for 300 bucks a share in 2012

2013 2014. it was obvious they they were

already

10 years into beating everybody that

there was no

retailer in the world that was going to

displace them by then

but they were still massively

undervalued

so if you're if you're thinking about uh

equity as a store of value the problem

is it's a crowded trade and um

and you're not beating everybody in the

market unless you manage to pick the one

the zoom company that's about to go

through the roof but you had to have

bought zoom in

january or february or or last december

i mean once 350 million people know

about them they're trading at 100 times

revenue or 200 times revenue and then

you've just kind of missed that boat

that's the problem with equity the

problem with with

debt is that with interest rates at zero

the only way debt goes up is

interest rates have to go negative and

and the wheels fall off the wagon in so

many ways

it's a challenge and the pro and that

leaves you gold

and the problem with gold is the

counterparty risk is 95 likely to strip

it all from your hands

over a long long term but forgetting

about that

the debasement risk is stripping 88

percent of it from your hands

and then forgetting about that let's say

you're a short term

you're only going to hold goal for three

four years five years ten years

the problem with that is that and and i

thought about this peter

i thought about buying gold and i

thought the real problem with buying

50 gold and 50 bitcoin is the same exact

people

that are running toward gold are gonna

run toward bitcoin

and when they realize that bitcoin is a

thousand times better than gold

all the money that chased into a safe

haven of gold

is going to move and chase into bitcoin

so

you're getting screwed two ways

intelligent people

are gonna mind more gold when the price

goes up and they're

and you're gonna you're gonna get hurt

by that and then intelligent investors

are going to flee gold into bitcoin

as the price goes up and also as they

understand and get more educated

so do you really want to bet on people

staying

stupid and ignorant for long periods of

time

if you're entrusting your life energy

and i mean the answer is no

finally that's why warren buffett didn't

buy gold

the real problem with buying gold is

you're betting against human

ingenuity you're betting

that people are just too stupid and lazy

to make more gold

when the price goes up and that's always

an awful bet

that's why if you really believe in gold

you buy the gold miners

because at least the gold miners

have the ability to make more gold and

there's a competitive dynamic there

but you know having said it all

and i think bitcoin is digital gold and

it's the hardest

smartest fastest you know

strongest treasury asset you're gonna

get

that's why you should buy it it's the

ultimate long duration asset

okay so why is it you see

bitcoin as digital gold i think

i think it's important for people to

realize that

that uh bitcoin is a virtual

manifestation of gold

so what do people want in gold they want

it to be hard

and bitcoin is harder than gold because

you can't mine

more that you can't mine two percent a

year you can mine 0.1

a year and so it's totally capped and

that's what makes it harder

but there's another way that it's harder

because

bitcoin is a living creature the miners

are changing

the nodes are changing the software is

changing they're all upgrading over time

and and the ecosystem has exchanges on

the front end

servers on the back and clients on the

front end so

as all of that software upgrades

that makes it harder it's anti-fragile

in that way

because bitcoin will um

react to threats and adapt and

and fight back um and uh

and so we when we think about goal we

think well it's been hard and the same

for a million years but

but bitcoin is virtual gold and it's not

going to be the same for the next 100

years it's going to literally

get harder more secure

in in many ways as the software and the

hardware gets better

and so that's that's an anti-fragile

component

i i think that one of the key themes

with all technology networks

uh and the reason for the success of

apple google and facebook

and amazon and the like is when you

de-materialize a product or a service

into software you can make it smarter

you can make it faster you can make it

stronger the um

the camera on apple's iphone

is smarter stronger faster

than the best camera produced before

apple came along

and we all have lots of examples of the

way that it's smarter faster and

stronger

and youtube is smarter faster and

video than any video network that came

along before

and there are lots of examples and

people get this intuitively

when you dematerialize something so when

you dematerialize

gold you don't just make it harder to

make it smarter faster and stronger and

the smarter is

i put a million dollars of gold in

bitcoin

and then i write some software and the

software does a million things

while i'm sleeping with that asset that

that i wouldn't have done and couldn't

have done if um

if it's exchange writes an application

that lets 10 million people post that

they want to borrow

against their bitcoin and they post the

price and then 10 000 people post they

want a loan

against bitcoin as collateral and they

post the price

the market clears and you created like

an ebay

uh crypto bank and and that'll run

all the time that's never gonna happen

with gold

you can't do it with gold and yet not

only can you do it with bitcoin

it's gonna get better every year forever

when you do a bitcoin

and that's that's why it's smarter i

mean a bar

gold never crawled out from under your

bed to go and earn interest for you

while you're sleeping and then crawl

back in bed with you

it's just not going to happen and if you

think about it being

faster when you took the you take the

mass out of something it could move at

the speed of light

in this particular case

you want to move 100 million dollars a

goal from new york to tokyo it's going

to cost you 250 000 dollars it's a 3 000

pound block of gold you'd have to

charter a global express pay 10 000

an hour put a bunch of guns on a thing

quarter of a million dollars when you

move

a hundred million dollars of bitcoin

it's five bucks

and i'm always amused right all these

guys in the crypto community

they complain about transaction fees

and what they completely miss is the

transaction fee to move gold is 250

000 and the transaction fee to move the

bitcoin is five

dollars and they're they're thinking

about a world where transaction means

buy pizza and buy coffee

and that's thinking small what they

ought to be doing is thinking about a

world where i wanted to move 100 million

or billion dollars at a time and and

once they thought about that world

they would realize the transaction cost

and speed

bitcoin in essence is infinitely fast

infinitely cheap to move

like ridiculously cheap and fast to move

you're just moving the wrong quantity of

it

and that that has consequences to the

business in a way

and that's why it's faster but what does

that mean

that means that i could actually move it

to turkey loan 10 million dollars of it

to somebody for four days and move it

back

and and the and the cost of movement is

five dollars this way in that way and it

moves the speed of light

and it's even faster than you know

people say it's 10 minutes or 30 minutes

to get the confirmations

the point is it's a better instrument

and i can prove that i have it and you

can prove that you have it and so the

software can

can operate in 100 milliseconds and so

we're not talking about 10 times faster

than gold

we're talking about 10 million times

faster than gold

and that takes me to strong and the

strong element is

you're getting a full audit every 10

minutes of the entire supply everywhere

in the world

transparently and there's no security

and there is no asset on the planet

where you have have a full audit every

10 minutes

and you've got a bid on it

every second of the day 24 7 365 in

every currency

which means that you could actually mark

to market

someone's 3 800 bitcoin

every second in every currency in real

time

and that's god's gift to a banker right

because what you want is perfectly

transparent

collateral and you can mark the market

if if i can do those two things

then that means we're really reaching

we're bordering on a world where money

never sleeps

right truly we're gonna we're gonna

achieve the cliche of money never sleeps

and if you wanna see it in full view

all you do is pull up a crypto exchange

on a saturday night or a sunday morning

and just watch the ticker scroll and

literally

it's the only thing in the world that is

that

you've got a bid on nothing else and

uh so you put those three together and

you say

i created a bar of gold i virtualized it

it moves at the speed of light

a million times a second and i've got

computers that think a billion times

faster than i think

talking to other computers that are

thinking a billion times faster than i

think

and then you try to value that

and is that worth 10 more than a gold

bar

no it's it's worth

what's the value of rand mcnally when

they put it they printed a physical map

and i wrote about this in the mobile

ways like the the entire map company was

worth 50 million 100 million dollars

what's the value of google maps 50

billion

a hundred billion dollars you had a map

company worth some millions and you had

a

you had a an intelligent smarter faster

stronger and boy how smart are faster

stronger

google creates the map that tells you

how to drive

how to get there lets you duck the

traffic

shows you the restaurant tells you it's

open and then tells you don't bother

going because everybody hates this

restaurant

that's a smart fast strong

map and you create 100 billion dollar

businesses

on those things when a billion people

start to rely on them

that's the part of of digital gold i

think investors

people don't get and if they got that

there's no way you would say to me i

guess i'll put 50

in gold 50 in gold and 50

in bitcoin is like saying in the year

2010

i'm going to put 50 of my money in canon

and kodak and the other 50 in apple

and it's like a laughable point it's

like yeah that was really smart of you

it it reminds me peter of all the wall

street hedge fund guys

back in 2011 2012 and

i used to talk to them because i wrote

this book called the mobile wave and i

was a big bowl on apple

and i and i said well they said to me

why do you like apple and i said well

apple is going to de-materialize

everything you can hold in your hand

every book every camera

every recorder a wallet you know

a television every device is going to

dematerialize on the apple network and

every wealthy person that i know has one

of these

which means that 90 of the wealth on the

planet is going to be getting everything

they can hold

off of apple and they're going to have a

trillion dollar

mobile network okay and they said

this is classic well this is well and

good but if you invest your money with

us

we provide you a service and whenever

apple stock goes up

we'll sell it and diversify it into all

the other computer companies

so that you don't have too much exposure

to apple because it's kind of risky to

have all your money in one stock

and i said well you're going to buy all

the desktop computer companies that are

going to zero

when apple eats them all and they said

we don't see it that way and i said

well technology is dematerializing all

these products and services

the you know it doesn't make any sense

to me and they said

well you know when when your technology

portfolio gets too high

our service to you is we're going to

sell your tech stocks like amazon and

google and apple and facebook

and we're going to buy cyclical non-tech

stocks to diversify your portfolio to

protect you and hedge you

and i said well isn't it the case that

technology is going to eat everybody

and there's not going to be any

non-technology companies eventually

they'll all be gone every newspaper

every television station everybody is

going to be dematerialized and eaten

and they said we don't see it that way

and i and i would say as a hist as a

student of history

and especially science and you want to

you want an interesting read

go read the history of john d

rockefeller and then read the history of

andrew carnegie and then read the

history of henry ford and then read the

history of hershey

and then go to the craft craft factories

and what you'll conclude is

every successful business in in modern

history was a technology company

there was no success general electric

electricity was technology

automotive was technology the idea that

investors don't buy technology is a

is a silly notion and once you

understand that

you realize that the only issue is is

the technology at the beginning of the s

curve

or is it toward the end of the s-curve

and the beginning of the s-curve

is when it when it works and everybody

can see it's going to work

but most of the old school still doesn't

understand it

and the end of the s curve is when it

works

and everybody sees it and all of the old

school

understands that they're not going to

vanquish it and they all rely

on it and then the politicians start to

regulate it

at the point that people decide it's a

it's a human right

everyone has a right to this is a

utilitarian

right and then they start to they start

to put uh

price controls on it or they start to

they start to mandate

uh universal access to it or regulate it

it's utility and one last point on this

the richest person in the world

shouldn't be a jeff bezos it it ought to

be

the person that delivers your

electricity to you because if i really

wanted to wreck your life

i would just turn off the power right

there are a lot of things that people

rely upon that are more important than

facebook google amazon apple

i mean they're important but electricity

is more important you would

you would kill a million people in new

york city you've turned up the

electricity

and then after that water but if i

turned off the water

we'd all be dead in three days maybe two

days

and yet name me a water billionaire and

named me

electrical billionaire we had them

we had them when everybody disagreed

with the need for it right and then as

soon as everybody agree we need water

and electricity

it's not so good in investment anymore

and that that really changes your

dynamic here so

that's why i think bitcoin as digital

gold

is so compelling and that's why i think

that once people understand it

they're not going to buy they're not

going to want to buy one percent of it

they're not gonna because they're

holding 99

stuff that's like getting hammered to

death by it and the question is how

hammered

but so explain to me how these

explain to me how people think you know

wealthy people think

um because it's not a world i live in

right so multi-millionaire people worth

hundreds of millions billions

like how do they tend to invest and

especially a time like now

you know well with mid pademic

uh the fed is printing unlimited amounts

of money

you know that how do people tend to

invest and what are the hurdles you

think some of these bigger investors are

having

or the hurdles that they're in their way

to adopting bitcoin

yeah let's just take through the list of

things that keep people from buying

bitcoin

um number one uh

reputation the mainstream media

characterizes it as uh casino gambling

money for hackers money for criminals

scary you know using it to evade

currency control or something so

then the the narrative of

of uh it's for uh contrarians

and um and the like will scare away

um an insurance company right or a big

bank it's going to scare away

institutional investors so

so flipping that narrative is important

i think the next narrative is

uh this is uh unregulated cyber vegas

that doesn't help right i think i think

uh

i think that all of the unregulated

cyber vegas although it appeals to

someone who is a

libertarian cyberpunk

genius hacker they might like that um

but it's not going to appeal to someone

that has lots of money that they've got

in t-bills and

and nasdaq stocks they're going to think

i don't they don't want to go to vegas

and gamble

right they definitely don't be anywhere

regulatory off grounds

um what they want

is to put their money in the world's the

world's safest vault if the narrative

was

it's a vault of encrypted energy it's a

crypto vault or it's it's the world's

safest savings and loan the savings

alone at the end of the universe

you know as marketed by douglas adams

the world's safest most technically

advanced savings and loan

protected by the strongest wall of

encrypted energy

and it's impossible for him to get

through it your money is safe here

safer than fort knox safer than any bank

you know it can't be destroyed by a bank

it can't be stolen by a criminal it

can't be

destroyed by a government right that's

that's an appealing narrative

um i think that the crypto industry

it uh it repeats some tropes that are

that are

uh counterproductive that don't help it

for example

people always apologize for uh for

bitcoin being volatile

oh it's as you know it's volatile don't

put more than the amount you can lose in

it

okay well if you look at it over the

past four months

it has been no more volatile than any of

the big tech companies i mean when i

check it it's

apple computers more volatile than

bitcoin for the past four months

apple computer is the is the is on the

dow it's a

the blue is the blue chip stocks owned

by

an octogenarian warren buffett

and it's more volatile than bitcoin and

it's 10 times bigger than

bitcoin and it's an establishment stock

so why apologize people on bitcoin ought

to say

it used to be volatile it's a lot less

volatile now

and in fact of late the other day i

looked and and uh it was a

it was a bad day in the market the

30-year treasury

was more volatile than bitcoin the

10-year treasury is more volatile than

bitcoin

every big tech company is more volatile

than bitcoin the nasdaq was more

volatile than bitcoin

silver and gold were more volatile than

bitcoin and i scratched my head

and i was like why is the bitcoiners

keep telling everybody they're volatile

why don't they just say there's stuff

that's volatile

our volatility used to be legendary but

it's a lot less volatile now well maybe

maybe

you know what if people like square keep

putting money and we could uh

we could go through another one of these

crazy ball runs where it does look

volatile again

it i guess it'd be nice it was volatile

to the upside

but but um but when you're apologizing

for volatility and and you're

um warning people that this might be too

volatile for you

you're you're sending the message that

this is a crazy unregulated casino where

you can make fortunes or lose fortunes

that's not what people want i think if

you just said

you can put your bitcoin in and it's

highly unlikely you'll lose it

i think that's enough yeah there's a lot

of people that would be happy just not

to lose their stuff

and so a lot of people in the crypto

community feel a need to reach for yield

and they and they feel a need to

apologize for past volatility

and if if they simply said here's a

stable treasury asset

it should have a positive real yield

over time because we're not printing

more of it

then they could stop there's another

narrative which which hurts which is um

everybody's number one pushback as they

think about it is

after they get past the is this uh for

criminals and

casino gamblers i have to get that then

the next pushback is

well it's not really scarce because i

can copy the code and create my own coin

and the the proper answer to that

and by the way somebody forked it you

know and bitcoin there'll be another

fork and another fork and another four

the proper answer to that is

bitcoin is the winner of the crypto wars

and has risen

above the thousands of other crypto

networks to be the one and only

true winning dominant crypto

and if you stack the other crypto

networks that are designed to be

asset networks a crypto asset network to

store your value

bitcoin's 94 of it and the next one is

50 times smaller

call bitcoin cash and the next one is is

60 times smaller

and then we can't remember the number

four and so

you're buying the category killer of the

crypto asset network

and it has been attacked a thousand

times and they have all failed

and yes you could make your own but

you're not going to get the 200 billion

dollars

worth of fanatic maximalist who will

fight to the death to defend

this one and so why would you create one

which is identical to this one which is

10 years behind and 200 billion dollars

behind

that you know bitcoin is the facebook of

monetary networks and you could

duplicate facebook

too but you won't because

none of your friends are going to switch

over to the yoyo book

and and i think everybody understands

that once they've used fake it's why

it's why you're not going to switch from

twitter or youtube or facebook

or apple because there's a massive

barrier to switching the network is

dominant

and so if if the crypto people just said

if this segment in the market said

bitcoin is the dominant crypto asset

network

done you might carve a channel

and pull tens of trillions of dollars of

money into the crypto space

right i when i look at crypto i say it's

a 300 billion dollar

pond on a beach next to a 300 trillion

dollar

ocean crypto

crypto the crypto i'm going to get to

the point

yeah the or pond is 300 billion

dollars and bitcoin is 200 billion of it

and now the entire crypto community

spends a lot of time talking about alt

coins versus bitcoin

and bickering between those two but what

they ought to be doing

is talking about alt assets versus

bitcoin

and they ought to be saying bitcoin's

volatility compared to silver or

gold is trending down or bitcoin's

volatility compared to apple stock

is trending down i can actually find

metrics of bitcoin's volatility versus

tron but that's it's kind of a joke

because the 300 trillion dollars is not

choosing between

tron and bitcoin the 300 trillion

dollars

by the way which is 99.9 of all the

wealth and power in the world

so all the money all the power is not in

the pawn

if you want to make this business this

entire industry successful

even if you believe even if you're an

ethereum person

if you're tron ethereum eos chain link

tether it doesn't matter you know ripple

whatever you are

every one of them has a vested interest

in

carving a channel between the crypto

pond

and the the asset ocean and then getting

10 trillion dollars to flow into that

and if that and the the gateway to that

is going to be bitcoin the only way

someone's going to move money from

gold silver equity indexes

bonds real estate into crypto

is first through bitcoin

and then once it's in bitcoin then you

can

you can go at this issue of can i

generate yield on it can i wrap it

can i do other stuff the other part of

the crypto market is going to be

crypto applications crypto currencies

crypto other types of crypto assets

could thrive

i can conceptualize them but none of

them i think have a chance of thriving

unless bitcoin emerges to be the digital

gold

of the 21st century and uh and that's

what i think people miss

in their narrative and one last point

they've got a very pernicious number

it's an awful number

the number is uh dominance they should

not be saying

bitcoin is 59 dominance and then listing

25 other cryptos on you know on their

exchange

pages what they should be doing like any

good venture capitalist or any good

executive is they should segment the

market and divide and conquer

they should say a currency a

cryptocurrency is a stable coin

running on a decentralized network that

holds a stable value

against the euro or the dollar that's a

currency

and then an application is a world

computer that will run a complicated

smart contract or some application in

exchange or what have you

and ethereum is is targeted to be that

and ethereum is 60

of the applications market i if i was

ethereum

i'd a lot i'd like rather be 70

of the crypto application market than be

20

of the crypto market right why would you

pick a fight with somebody you can't

beat with every disadvantage when you

could be 70

of the market where maybe you have a

chance

and then you would say crypto assets

that's people that want to be digital

gold

and and that's that's bitcoin now what

happens next

what happens next is somebody with a

billion dollars

and they've got their money here and

there they've got like half an hour and

they say what is this thing and you say

well there are applications assets and

currencies

and they're like okay so this is digital

gold okay well it's not getting a copy

well no it's 94 percent of the market

and a thousand things have failed

they're like okay that's that's the

apple computer of digital gold right

yeah i could buy that that's the

facebook of digital gold

i could buy that okay give me 50 million

of that and then go the next thing and

say

well the next thing is crypto

applications what's this ethereum

what are they doing uh decentralized

exchanges and

well that's competing against this and

that well is that risky not risky

maybe our venture capital fund will put

10 million into that

we got venture capital for that's a bit

riskier what's this next thing

currency okay what's that what's that

going to yield me well that's

you know that's just stable coin not

that much but

they're like well i got i got some money

market something okay

just park 3 million in that just in case

give

people simple metaphors and let them

put their buckets of money into those

things and don't

and don't try to co-mingle a casino

you know with uh with a gray market

with a savings alone because that

doesn't help anybody and when

when they go to the ethereum or ripping

down bitcoin

it just reminds me of um there might be

a bunch of crabs

in a pot and you're you're you're

cooking the crabs

and one crab tries to crawl out and the

other crabs just dragging it back in

you're just like all the crap you guys

are in a point

one percent of the market you ought to

cooperate with each other

you think point one percent you think so

that says to me you're not

are you maximalist or do you do you have

an interest in

other networks where are you at with

that

my view on this is is

the idea of a crypto network is

i'm going to form a decentralized set of

nodes

they use a consensus mechanism ideally

with a very difficult you know a very

stable

mechanism like proof of work so it's

very difficult for someone to hijack it

i'm sold on proof of work and i'm pru

i'm sold on that idea and then from

there

i'm going to provide someone

with uh immortal sovereignty on

something

so why would i go to the trouble of a

proof-of-white work network because i

wanted it to transcend

uh any company or country right

i need to get over counterparty risk so

what's important enough to want to do

that

well like all my life force

like money is energy all the money in

the world is all the energy in the world

so all of my life force from now to

eternity

that's probably worth protecting so

protecting my money

that's a useful application now

are there other applications that you

could

run on that network like the idea of a

smart contract

tied into the bitcoin network

interesting to me i don't think it's

been proven to be commercially viable

but

but there are other things that i might

want immortal sovereignty for

or or long duration like for example

let's take a trust i want to leave money

to my

children's children's children okay well

people use human constructs

to implement a trust right now it's a

it's a foundation of people

and i'm trusting the people if i could

create uh

you know some application that would run

for 30 or 40 or 50 years that

would give my granddaughter you know

an amount of money to get through

college or get a house or something

then maybe i would actually do that on a

crypto network

maybe i would jack it in i'd probably

power it up with bitcoin

but i wouldn't say to a bitcoin core

developer

can you please add a bunch of

complicated code

to deliver flowers to my granddaughter

on her 21st birthday

i just don't think it's worth the

trouble right i i wouldn't risk the core

network for

complications they break

but i think that um maybe you want to

publish your last will and testament in

an immutable fashion

that uh that will last for 100 years so

no one can mess with it

is there a place to publish something

forever or to to

to how about to transfer title or keys

or rights or license or

or to prove provenance all these things

might be

interesting on a long duration crypto

network they're not proven

right they're not proven but they're

interesting uh on decentralized networks

the number one use of the decentralized

exchange is like regulatory arbitrage

and the number two you know so the

number two use maybe is

um is uh in a

innovation acro cross domain innovation

and by that i mean if i'm being slowed

down by the lowest common denominator of

100 jurisdictions i do business in such

that i

i can't do this because there's one

place out of 100 places that would shut

me down

if that's the case and innovation is

crippled

then a decentralized solution might

actually

allow innovation to accelerate and so i

could imagine

a legal ethical basis for a

decentralized application network

i can also imagine a lot of a lot of uh

non-compliant you know uses if i'm using

an application network to evade currency

controls

eventually it's going to get shut down

in the country where it operates and

and so those are short duration

projects if if all you're doing is

getting around

uh uh like running an exchange without

kyc

operating eventually you're gonna get

shut down right like we see that

happening

so it's no good for that and i think

that maximalists have

a reasonable argument in saying that

nobody's proven

that this is going to work for anything

other than money and bitcoin is the

money so

yeah now i but i think

theoretically it's possible to imagine

an application

on a decentralized network other than

bitcoin

that would uh have value to someone and

i think that people should

try those things and and we'll see what

happens and

and all of them i think that um

the the most magical things that will

happen will likely be

combinations of bitcoin as a

decentralized

monetary power network powering

centralized and digital applications

in the future like for example if i want

to give

flowers to my daughter every year for

50 years after i'm dead i kind of want

to plug amazon into bitcoin right

and then maybe 35 years from now when

amazon stops

delivering flowers i want one human

being

to be able to plug in flowers on

into my bitcoin account and my bitcoin

account will pay

for the flowers to get delivered and i

i'm not really concerned about

you know that the fact that amazon will

stop the flower business or maybe

a country will fail because i got the

money

i've got the power jacked in on a

decentralized network

and i'm gonna will i actually use a

decentralized

flower delivery app versus a centralized

flower delivery app i i kind of think

that it's just not going to be important

enough

to develop a crypto to deliver flowers

but i

but i won't say that there's nothing

that i could imagine

that would be important enough to

develop a purposeful crypto network for

and then we get in this area of hybrid

networks where

maybe they develop it but they're

jacking into bitcoin security

and bitcoin you know bitcoin rights or

keys in order to