Michael Saylor on Bitcoin, the Red Wave, the Future of Crypto and Building Wealth

[Music]

Michael thank you so much for having us

at your beautiful Villa thanks for

coming well it's been a crazy few weeks

I really thought that at the time of

this recording it would be

$100,000 Bitcoin our 100K interview

hasn't happened yet but it could any

moment I just want to first start with

your reaction to the recent price rally

as the result of the Red Wave sweeping

the

country well I think uh clearly the the

most uncertain thing the greatest form

of uncertainty is the result of the

elections on November 5th and the

elections could have been a Blue Wave

they could have been a red wave they

could have been red and blue they could

have been red white and blue uh and we

didn't really know at 800 pm on Tuesday

night November 5th just was

unclear but by the next morning by by

6:30 or 7 a.m. on November 6th it became

pretty clear that there was going to be

a red wave uh and that Trump was going

to win the White House the Republicans

going to win the Senate and it seemed

quite likely the Republicans would win

house I think that um there's uh there

are many many paths uh in the future but

clearly the significance of the Red Wave

is the nation has spoken and the will of

the of the country is they would like

more freedom they would like more

Innovation they would like smaller

government they would like lower taxes

they would like less regulation they

would like more empowerment they would

like more

inspiration um they would like uh they'd

Bitcoin they would like more digital

assets they'd like to see the digital

transformation of the world this was a

referendum on on uh Elon Musk and SpaceX

versus NASA do we want the government to

run the space program and do we want it

to be a cost plus contract or do we want

the private Enterprise to take us to

Mars and I think uh I think it's a stark

reminder um that uh that the American

people they believe in Freedom and uh

and charging toward the frontier so it

was a big win for trump it was a big win

for Elon Musk it was a big win for

freedom of speech I think that um it was

uh probably one of the more

extraordinary things maybe one of the

more extraordinary things of the century

and um it would be very difficult to

forecast the future of the crypto

industry the digital assets industry and

Bitcoin before and now we actually have

a lot more clarity about um about what's

coming next well let's get very specific

about that what do you expect with this

incoming Administration when it comes to

bitcoin and the regulatory

environment well I think um what we

clearly heard uh from Donald Trump is

never so your Bitcoin big question was

does the United States sell Bitcoin does

the United States buy Bitcoin if you

recall uh the German government sold a

lot of Bitcoin and at

$55,000 of Bitcoin it turns out to be a

more than a billion dollar mistake in a

couple of weeks big mistake and uh and

uh people used to speculate well you

know is the government going to dump the

Bitcoin or they not and now what you see

is is Trump is pro Bitcoin and with the

red sweep that means the Republicans run

the Senate control the Senate and they

control the house which means the pro

Bitcoin Senators like senator

have now have now moved from being in

the minority to being in the majority in

the minority you watch the laws being

written and the majority you write the

laws you pass the laws uh before uh

November 5th there was actually broad

consensus in the house and the Senate to

repeal Sab 121 and they did and the

president vetoed it um so what I would

expect is um that uh sa 121 will be

either withdrawn by the SEC or it will

be repealed and the president will

support the repeal uh that opens the way

for banks to custody Bitcoin that opens

the way for the entire banking system to

embrace Bitcoin and I think for Bitcoin

to grow by a factor of 100x from here we

need for the banking system of the world

to support Bitcoin so if I think about

the consequences for Bitcoin I think

what this means is it's an

acceleration of uh Pro Bitcoin

regulations I think that we'll

see incon creation and Redemption of

Bitcoin ETFs I think we'll see the

repeal of sa 121 I think we'll see uh

support for Bitcoin within the banking

system uh from the banking Regulators

from treasury from OC from

SEC um I think you'll see more

supportive uh more supportive

legislation from Congress I think it

will be approved by the White House I

think that this is a signal uh to

accelerate institutional

adoption I think that

the that uh the previous administration

had been hostile to bitcoin hostile to

Bitcoin mining hostile to bitcoin

banking hostile to the Bitcoin

ETFs and the failure of Silicon Valley

Bank followed by the shutdown I mean

effectively the forcible liquidation of

silvergate and signature even those were

even though those were solvent Banks I

mean they were perfectly healthy banks

that were actually forced into

receivership by a hostile Administration

I think that had caused the banking

establishment you know reasonably enough

to be skittish and to be conservative

and a little bit slow to adopt Bitcoin

because they could see uh there was

resistance in the administration I think

that now with a new

Administration uh with President Trump

coming to the Bitcoin conference in

Nashville and saying I will end the war

on crypto I will end that you know the

war on bitcoin I will support Bitcoin we

will not sell our Bitcoin we're going to

make Bitcoin in America America is going

to be the capital of Bitcoin right the

fact that he said that I think that sets

the tone at the top that means you just

I think number one it's it's seems in

inconceivable to me that ah head of the

treasury or the cftc or the SEC will be

appointed that is anti- Bitcoin or anti-

crypto right that seems quite obvious we

know that Trump is Allin on crypto all

in on bitcoin so I think that uh we'll

have favorable supportive cabinet

members I think the second thing is we

know we'll have a support of Congress

Congress was already in favor of Bitcoin

you know before November 5th we'll have

a supportive Senate the Senate was the

Republican senators were already in

favor of Bitcoin the Democratic senators

have been sidelined and won't have any

power in this regard so Elizabeth

Warren's agenda is going to become

largely a thing of the past and

Irrelevant in uh in the White House in

the Senate and the Congress of the

future so so I I think that um all of

this suggest uh an acceleration of

institutional adoption it's a signal

that it's okay for insurance companies

to think about insuring Bitcoin

companies it's a signal that it's okay

for banks to bank Bitcoin and crypto

for um Wall Street to start to embrace

endorse and Advocate Bitcoin right it's

a signal for that that the president and

the administration is going to look at

things like operation chokepoint as

hostile to the interest of the industry

I think uh I

think if you combine that with the pro

bus and the pro-american agenda of the

Red Wave it's pretty clear that uh this

Administration wants to grow business in

America it wants to deregulate it wants

to strip away uh

handcuffs it wants to lower taxes it

wants it wants to

accelerate progress and then the passage

to the Future in the United States and

all of that I think is just very

auspicious for Bitcoin and the digital

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well real quick what do you say to

people who are watching this who did not

vote for president Trump and they didn't

want to see a red wave sweep the

country well I think that often times in

elections there's very polar IED uh

polarized rhetoric on both sides and the

information uh that's fed to people uh

in the in the Democratic party and

watching Democratic uh channels of

communication Democratic television and

you know blue media is often times uh a

very a very narrow and sometimes uh

sometimes distorted view of reality um I

think that uh a lot of the fears

that people had were probably probably

driven by Amplified campaign rhetoric

and likely the things they're worried

about aren't really going to be a

problem and the things that they need

they're going to get even though they

didn't

know that they needed them or they

didn't know they're going to get them so

I think that ultimately the this will

begin a healing process for the country

I think I think ultimately everybody in

the country wants prosperity

everybody in the country wants Freedom

everybody in the country uh wants

empowerment um we all know we need to go

to the future we all need to leave the

past behind and I think that we're

looking at many many years of uh

prosperity and empowerment ahead of us

because of what's happened and Bitcoin

is that neutral tool that will hopefully

help us get there uh one of Trump's

campaign promises was to create a US

strategic Bitcoin stockpile how quickly

could we see something like that

manifest and what are the

implications I think uh it'll be on the

agenda as soon as the new Administration

is seated in late

January um I think Senator lus has a

ambitious agenda uh in the first 100

days uh to put it before Congress I

think we'll actually see action on it in

2025 and

um you know with the support of house a

supportive Senate and a supportive White

House um I think something will happen

the only question is to what extent

right will it be the lumus bill will it

be Max will it be double Max will it be

a trump Max strategy now the logic of

the bill and the logic of the Strategic

Bitcoin Reserve is uh

simple by the

future right uh Once Upon a Time uh the

British look to the new world when they

realized the future was the new world

they came to the new world it actually

was the new world that powered the

British Empire that's why they won the

Napoleonic Wars that's why they were the

greatest Empire of the 17th the 18th the

19th century they were fueled by the

power of the new world just like the

Spanish Empire was fueled by the gold of

the new world eventually the 13 colonies

realized they needed to go west and as

they expanded West the the United States

grew into a formidable power uh with the

Louisiana Purchase we doubled the land

mass of the United States without the

Louisiana Purchase there would be no St

Louis no place for you to get married um

and uh and that was a pretty good

purchase we we did well there that was

Napoleon selling Louisiana to fund a war

that he lost and the US doubling and

what happened next was was the

acquisition of of Texas Nevada the

western territories in California also

going west again it turned out to be a

good trade made uh made America the it

creaded Hollywood it created Silicon

Valley right it gave America Apple and

Google and Facebook and Amazon and

movies and music and the Eagles and la

and made us the cultural capital of the

world

and uh and the Mexicans were not the

cultural capital of the world uh and I'm

sure they would like to have kept it but

uh they didn't and then we uh we

acquired Alaska from the Russians and uh

it turned out that there were trillions

of dollars of minerals and energy

underneath

Alaska and uh that is manifest destiny

so so Nations grow by by expanding into

territories where they can uh where they

can generate extreme uh prosperity and

productivity and now there's nowhere

further west to expand uh the the New

Frontier cyberspace you can't go west

you need to go up you need to go into

cyberspace and Bitcoin is cyberspace and

the logic of the Strategic Bitcoin

Reserve is why don't we buy the future

why don't we buy 20%

x% anywhere from 5 to 25% of the future

and uh if the United States acquires 20%

of

cyberspace then all of the capital from

the past from the 20th century from the

19th century the gold of the 19th

century the real estate the bonds the

stocks of the 20th century they're going

to flow into the 21st century that's the

money that's going from traditional

money to bitcoin and all of the capital

from China and Russia and Africa and

South America and Europe it's going to

flow into cyberspace it's going to flow

into Bitcoin so the geopolitical logic

of the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve which

which kind of understates it it makes it

sound like we're just buying it in case

we need it it's really the Strategic

Bitcoin expansion right we're putting a

flag in cyers space where all the money

in the world is about ahead and the

logic is we might as well get there

before the rest of the world decides

they need to

settle in in the Manhattan of

cyberspace if we do that it makes us

rich the lumus bill is worth 16 trillion

do to the United States in its current

form if they up that it could be worth

double or triple or quadruple that much

we can address the national debt reduce

the national debt retire the entire

national debt that's obviously a good

idea getting rich is obviously a good

idea retiring the national debt with

other people's money is a good idea and

of course if you're a neocon the best

idea would be to retire the national

debt with your enemy

money right so

so this is there's a kind of a thing of

beauty here if the enemies of the United

States see all their Capital flow into

cyberspace where we own it and so one

part of the pie is is by the future the

other part of the pie or the other idea

is attract all the capital from the rest

of the world into cyberspace floating

above the United States you know and and

the third idea

is should anybody ever decide that they

want to they want to recapitalize their

company or their country on on something

other than us treasury bills and by the

way the Russians own treasury bills the

Chinese use United States sovereign debt

our enemies used our our Sovereign

treasury bills or so our sovereign debt

our friends use it everyone use it if

anybody ever decides they don't want to

capitalize on that and they want to go

to the next thing they're not going to

go back to Gold they're not going to go

to Silver they're not going to go to

glass beads or bales of tobacco or

seashells they're not going to be able

to capitalize on their own Fiat

currencies because every other currency

is weaker than the dollar they're going

to have to go to something stronger

faster smarter they're going to have to

go to bitcoin Bitcoin is the future

world Reserve Capital Network and so

should should people decide that they

want to move to the world Reserve

Capital Network which is Bitcoin the

small thing for the United States is

make sure they own that too and so the

beauty is in the world in the world post

Satoshi money bifurcates into currency

and

capital currency is the medium of

exchange it's the legal tender it's the

dollar is the world Reserve currency and

everything else in the world is pegged

to the dollar the Chinese currency is

pegged to the dollar the emirati

currency is pegged to the dollar the

euro is almost pegged to the

dollar half of the one of the of the

aspects of money is

currency the United States owns the

world Reserve currency right it's a

great Advantage for us the other aspect

of money is capital long-term store of

value I don't need to buy coffee with it

I don't need to pay my rent with it I

want to feed my family a hundred years

from now with it I want to be rich

forever with it

that capital in the money in the form of

capital is a profoundly new idea

because the wealthy and the institutions

well that the the wealthy have used real

estate as capital for the past 100 years

or they've used stocks and S&P ETFs

indexes as capital and and institutions

Banks and operating companies they have

used

sovereign debt they have used debt as

capital and now here's the big

idea the people that use real estate and

Equity as capital Harvard University

Yale rich people Bill Gates all the

wealthy people in the world every

wealthy family the people that used

property or or or Equity as capital

they're still Rich the people that use

debt as capital Banks the banks are

insolvent if you actually used uh

sovereign debt as capital for the past

four years you have a minus 5% nominal

yield yeah now who else uses sovereign

debt as capital operating companies so

public companies and Banks operating

companies are forced to use toxic

Capital which is weak Capital I'll call

it the US dollar is great as a currency

it's not great as capital all the

bitcoiners know this and so and and

money what is money well money is

fungible a fungible liquid asset well

the problem why is real estate can't be

money because you can't buy a cup of

coffee with a building in London right a

building is not money right it is

capital it's a liquid non-f funable

Capital how about a share of Apple stock

is it money not really it's C it's

fungible Capital Nvidia stock Apple

stocks funable Capital but it's not

really you can't like buy a cup of

coffee on Saturday morning with your

Apple stock so Capital Assets in the

20th century aren't money currency is

money but currency is not a good Capital

asset post Satoshi all of the sudden we

have a money which is a capital asset

which is Bitcoin and now the

significance of what's going on with the

Strategic Bitcoin Reserve is the United

States is going to own the world's

Reserve Capital

Network Bitcoin we're going to mine

Bitcoin the Bitcoin miners Run the World

Reserve Capital Network Bitcoin holders

own the world Reserve Capital if you

want a prescription for prosperity in

the 21st century there's no better

prescription than to own the world's

Reserve Capital run the world's Reserve

Capital Network benefit from the growth

of the world's Reserve Capital asset and

the logic from from the United States

point of view is we already Run the

World Reserve currency now will own the

world's Reserve Capital network if

people ever

recapitalize their uh sovereign debt

with Bitcoin it will be a benefit to the

American people the American

corporations the American way of life

the American

ideology and it's a way out like we

talked about Natalie we've talked about

the despair of the working class that

can't get

ahead and the and the hope that Bitcoin

brings to the working class an an

individual or family can buy

Bitcoin often times we don't really

empathize with the despair of a

corporation or the despair of a bank

sometimes we don't really empathize them

but what about the despair of a bank

which is capitalized on a collapsing

asset Capital what about the despair of

a corporation 1% of the companies in the

S&P 500 make all the money mhm the

others work hard when I found Bitcoin I

was in despair I had worked for a decade

I had spent 20,000 man years attempting

to do everything under the sun I could

not get ahead right and I was the same

me I wasn't stupid M right you look at

me and say well this is this is Michael

sailor worked as hard as he could for a

decade and could not get ahead right and

the most per pernicious thing you can do

to someone is you make them think that

they're just not smart enough and the

reason they're failing is because

they're not smart and they don't work

hard enough and then you realize no the

system is rigged against you so what

does this mean what does the Strategic

Bitcoin Reserve mean it means that

Bitcoin is hope for the people but it

means that we once the United States

Embraces Bitcoin as the world's Reserve

Capital Network and it builds that

strategic Bitcoin reserve the path is

open for corporations in the United

States to recapitalize on bitcoin and

the path is open for banks to

recapitalize on bitcoin and now

corporations don't have to die Banks

don't have to

die institutions institutions are

already off the hook individuals are

already off for an endowment and for uh

a family and for a private company it's

your choice if you choose the asset

which is going up 60% a year or the

asset which is going down 6% a year

that's your choice but it was never a

choice for the banks in the US it was

never a choice for operating companies

in the US and so Senator lumus is doing

is really much more profound than we're

going to buy some Bitcoin what she is

doing is she is laying the ethical

economic technical Foundation to

revitalize the banking system in the US

and in the

world the operating at all the public

companies in the US and then the world

all of the

institutions and then and she's

spreading the American way of Life the

American ideology and what will first

happen is America will do it but

eventually every other country in the

world in Europe in South America in the

Middle East they will all look at what

we're doing and they will follow us in

the same way that you know when we

started building airports and airplanes

they followed us and when we when we

started embracing electricity they

followed us and when John D Rockefeller

started you know opting gasoline and

kerosene the world wanted to buy it the

and the world wanted to buy Henry Ford's

automobiles they're going to want

Bitcoin and they're going to want

digital capital and this is this is

really it's a pivotal moment in the

history of the world I mean the Trump

Vance musk movement when we made this

Choice are we going to embrace Tech

technology and starlink and electric

vehicles and Entrepreneurship are we

going to give the people their freedom

back are we going to embrace Innovation

right that choice that that took place

on Tuesday November 5th that catapulted

us into a whole new world of

possibilities and that made the

Strategic Bitcoin Reserve possible and

that made the recapitalization of the

world on sound economic ethical and

engineering principles possible

and that's why it's such it's been such

a good week Natalie no it has been I

want to pull on that thread of the

separation that you're making about

Bitcoin being digital Capital versus

digital currency how do you envision

Bitcoin actually assimilating with all

these other Fiat currencies including

the dollar why do we need 160 different

currencies I mean we technically Bitcoin

allows you to facilitate these types of

transactions in a borderless 24/7 way I

think if you look look at the world

today there's $900 trillion dollar or

more of wealth in the world a lot of

that wealth is invested in real estate a

lot of that wealth is invested in equity

a lot of that wealth is invested in gold

in arts a lot of that wealth is in

currencies a lot of that wealth is in

bonds corporate bonds governmental bonds

and then a lot of that wealth is in

various other forms of

derivatives the compelling use case the

most important use case in the world the

most valuable thing in the world is just

longterm

capital long-term store of value that's

worth half of all that $450

trillion worth of long-term capital

right when when people struggle with

what's the use case of Bitcoin or what's

the use case of

anything well the irony is they're

staring right at it it's this it's like

to be rich and stay Rich Forever it's

what everybody wants it's what every kid

wants every three-year-old wants this

there's no one that ever lived in the

history of the world that didn't want

more money more power right uh they

wanted they wanted wealth and prosperity

so that's worth $450

trillion Capital that's that is the

compelling thing now what is currency

well C currency is the medium of

exchange it's what I what I swap in

order to get my gasoline or in order to

buy a donut in order to pay the rent and

it's it's the high frequency liquid

money liquid stable high frequency money

it allows 400 million companies to have

a to have a price list with 100 items on

it so you've got billions and billions

and billions of prices in a certain you

know in a certain currency and we need

to swap that back and forth at High free

frequency well how valuable is

that I don't know 10 trillion 1 1 2 3 4

5 10 TR not 450 trilli a very simple use

case or a simple asset test

is Jeff Bezos worth 200 billion how much

of the 200 billion is invested in US

Dollars pure dollars in a savings

account or a checking account right now

what 1% you think he's got $2 billion

cash no

he probably you know Bernard Arno worth

180 billion how many dollars or Euros do

you think Bernard Arno has right now in

there right not even

1% so if the 450 trillion is the is the

wealth right is that is that is assets

held uh for Capital preservation the

other 400 trillion or 450 trillion

assets H for

utility I have this house so we can have

this interview

I like the

backyard I like the pool you know I

could park a yacht in the backyard I

like it util a Bitcoin the yach is a

utility the jet is a utility the chair

is a utility the art is utility M it's

okay you own the sports team because you

want to go sit Courtside and root for

the team right there a lot of you own

the you own Apple because you want to

root for apple and you want dividends

maybe uh so you own you own a Bakery

because you like the idea of creating

cool things with the bakery you own the

restaurant because you love the

restaurant business you own a resort in

Hawaii because you want to invite your

friends to the resort in Hawaii there's

a lot of things in the world that are H

for their utility you you you should own

a bond because you want to clip the

coupons you want fixed income in a

secure

currency in a world without digital

Capital without perfected Capital then

we have to monetize the real estate

monetize the bond monetize the stock

monetize the art monetize you know

everything under the Sun what does that

mean it means that you pay twice as much

as it's worth you know you pay you pay

50 times earnings but it's the company's

only worth 10 times earnings but you pay

50 times

why I know I know wealthy people they

own 16 Estates on the Eastern Shore and

and they live in two of them like why do

they buy them they land banking what

does that mean well the guy makes a lot

of money every year and he and he

doesn't want to put it in the savings

account so he goes and he just buys a

cool piece of property and he buys

another one well okay it sounds good but

here's the problem the guy buys up the

beautiful pieces of property and so you

can't afford it right and if the guy if

the rich guy wasn't buying up all the

beautiful houses they would cost half as

much and you could live in a beautiful

house so here's what happens some rich

dude has 27 houses that are empty you

don't have a beautiful house you have a

family your kids your dog could use the

beautiful house the rich dude doesn't

even want the house he just wants a

long-term capital preservation

strategy right and so that's a per a

perverse incentive and a distorted

economy that's broken

that's broken money that's because the

rich dude is using an estate on the

eastern shore of Maryland as a piggy

bank y huh but the estate doesn't get

renovated the house is falling down

there's a beautiful pool on the water

and you could have a great family picnic

there every Sunday but it's not going to

happen because the rich dude has 16

other houses he just bought that house

because he thought it was a good

investment okay that's wrong right right

so so when you come back and you look at

this

um currency's not worth that much this

is the big idea everybody's scrambling

over digital currency blah blah I want

Bitcoin to be a currency it's not worth

much right if I said to if I said to um

the richest guy in the world Jeff Bezos

if I or or Elon mus now if I said hey um

I have this little token and you can use

it to buy coffee you know and you don't

have to pay 2% you know to Visa you can

pay one

Satoshi how much of it you want to buy

I'm I don't know I guess I can buy

0.001% of my wealth I I would invest in

that like I don't need that like it's

not a problem for me if I said oh I have

digital Capital uh it's you know it's

returning four times the S&P index and

Twice The Magnificent Seven it's to

generate 60% re return by the way it's

growing three times as fast as your

company how much of that do you want to

buy all of it all of

it all of it okay so the richest guy in

the world wants to buy a 100 billion

dollars of Bitcoin the richest guy in

the world wants to buy I'll buy like

10,000 $5,000 of your digital token just

to you know just to mify you right to

patronize you so the point is digital

currency is not really worth that much I

mean as an

investment it's not that it's a bad

business right the world will run better

if the if the trillion dollars and it

sounds like a lot of money a trillion

dollars if one trillion 10 trillion

dollars goes from analog money in the

banking system to digital money and you

move it like tether at the speed of

light oh the world will work better

it'll be it'll be great for a lot of

things but at the end of the

day uh I don't really think it's as

valuable as um the equity of the AI

company that thinks everything all the

time a billion times faster and a

billion times better than us I don't

think it's as better as Tesla if Tesla

creates 8 billion robots that then make

more robots right I think there are a

lot of other ideas right making money

making currency move at the speed of

light's a good

idea but you know having robots do

everything for us and H and everybody

having a genius Jarvis that does

everything a billion times faster and

better than they would do it I think

those are good ideas but obviously I I I

think the best idea is Bitcoin the best

idea is long-term capital preservation

for the civilization money that lasts

forever right immortal

indestructible economic energy is the

best

idea and so you ask how does this all

fit together well what's what's going to

happen is Bitcoin is going to grow some

amount right now it's growing 50 to 60%

a year it's going to grow 50 to 60% a

year and gradually it will decelerate to

the rate of the double the S&P index

it'll grow 20% a year 25% of the S&P is

growing 10 and when happens it'll be

seven right now my forecast in July was

it'll be 7% of the world's Capital grow

29% a year ARR for 21 years it'll go to

13 million of coin by the year

2045 probably you would want to you

would be more bullish today after

November 5th I think that the political

wins are actually more favorable today

but when Bitcoin does that there's still

going to be the Tesla you know Elon

thinks Tesla will be worth $30 trillion

I don't know that he's wrong I mean I

wouldn't bet against it everybody's bet

against him is lost right right El's

winning they're all losing right and so

I some Bitcoin and he's going to win

with Bitcoin and that's going to make

him a fortune

too um so I I think Equity is going to

grow I think we're going to tokenize

other assets I think the digital assets

industry is going to grow um I think

that uh digital currency will grow I

think that I think that

um we'll probably recapitalize ize a lot

of the world on bitcoin instead of bonds

but I think there'll still be bonds I

think there'll still be uh there'll

still be bonds there'll still be Equity

there'll still be real estate there'll

still be art you know I I think the gold

will be progressively demonetized and at

some point gold will just be viewed like

silver I mean silver is I'm wearing a

silver belt imagine this is a gold belt

buckle I can afford this you know I I I

can't quite afford a solid gold belt I

couldn't afford the solid gold belt

buckle before Bitcoin maybe I could now

I'm sure you could but the point is I

wouldn't buy it now because it's going

to devalue until it's worth silver at

some point because the end of the day

it's just a little bit better than

silver and ultimately it's going to be

the Bitcoin belt buckle you're going to

want it's time for a quick break to hear

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free consultation today okay well

Michael you are known for saying there

is no second best but I just saw a

presentation that you gave where in the

title you had crypto Renaissance I'm

getting the sense that your views on the

broader crypto industry are changing and

you mentioned there will be other

digital currencies the tokenization of

assets can you clarify your views and

your forecast on this whole Space yes I

think I think if you had asked me before

November 5th what's going to happen I

would say I would say in the event of a

Blue Wave bitcoin's going to grind up

against resistance and continue to grow

you know uh

despite uh a not Progressive regime but

it's going to continue to grow because

it's

Unstoppable and uh I would have said the

digital assets industry is going to

continue to shrink and continue continue

to decay in the event of a Blue Wave so

so there was a bifurcation Bitcoin going

up 20 or 30% a year and digital assets

falling 20% or 30% a year in the event

of a blue

wave in the event of a red wave I would

say Bitcoin is going to blast up not

grind up but but blast up it's going to

power up much faster because now you

have a a pro Bitcoin president a Pro

Bitcoin Congress Pro Bitcoin legislation

we'll have Pro Bitcoin Banks we're going

to have Pro Bitcoin institutions Pro

we're going to Pro Bitcoin mining Etc so

I think the Bitcoin goes from that

powering up a 20% to blasting up much

faster than that and I think that the

digital assets industry goes from

decaying 20% now to blasting

up and and growing because the the

digital assets industry it can't really

prosper in the absence of a digital

assets framework which meet three

criteria it needs to be ethically sound

it needs to be economically

sound right and and um and uh

engineering sound technically sound

needs to be sound technically physically

sound so uh a technical ethical economic

framework in order to build an entire

digital assets in

so there's real there's no enthusiasm

for putting that forward in the previous

administration now there is enthusiasm I

and we'll get one we've got a promise

that we will get a digital assets

framework and I think within that

framework there's there's clearly a lot

of value to be created if if you create

um digital

Securities then uh what that would mean

is you could tokenize a share of Apple

stock and you could trade it on a

digital exchange on

Saturday and you could even tokenize the

Apple stock and you could take self

custody uh self- custody of your Apple

shares on your iPhone and if you can

have your photos on an iPhone and your

books on your iPhone and if you can have

your your um files on an iPhone and if

you can have your Bitcoin on an

iPhone why can't you have your Apple

stock on an iPhone so I I think that a

digital Securities framework is very

compelling people want to trade on the

weekends they want to trade on the

evenings I they want to they want to you

know what happens right now there's like

one company that can trade Apple stock

what happens when there's 1500 companies

that can trade Apple stock what happens

when 8 billion people or six billion

people with with smartphones what

happens when people with Android phones

can custody Apple stock right it's not a

complicated idea it's it's Tech is it

technically possible sure it is with

modern

cryptography that we solve the problem

with Bitcoin right and and modern

cryptography has solved the problem it's

just there's no legal ethical technical

agreed upon technical protocol to do it

so I think digital Securities are are

very powerful and you could

see uh first billions then trillions

tens of trillions tens of trillions of

dollars of analog Securities become

tokenized and become digital

and I don't I don't have an ethical

problem with it for example I wouldn't

recommend that you invest in Apple or

Amazon or Facebook or Google over

Bitcoin the truth is I wouldn't Rec I

would recommend Bitcoin over my own

stock I would recommend it over anybody

else's stock it's Bitcoin right I mean

so I wouldn't really recommend any of

50,000 public companies but I would say

the world's a better place if they all

tokenize if they're all digital right I

mean it's pretty clear if if on Sunday

afternoon you have the option to buy

sell trade or transfer your stock you're

empowered and that's good for the world

and that's good for the people um I

think if you move uh to say digital

currencies I consider a tether a circle

a stable coin a digital

currency I think that um that a clear

regulatory framework where a corporation

can issue them back them by US dollars

or US dollar equivalent like short-term

treasury bills I think if you can do

that that's a good thing for the world

if tether's going to do it we should

have tether relocate to the United

States be a you know give give them a

license in the US and let them do it and

I also think though you ought to let JP

Morgan do it and Goldman Sachs do it and

I think you ought to let Circle do it I

think there should be uh a competition

in the market and if it turns out that

tether and circle are better than JP

morg and Goldman Sachs then I think

tether and circle should issue all the

digital currency in the world if you're

the United States you just

want you don't want $150 billion do of

currency you want $15 trillion worth of

us digital currency to be circulating so

I I think that that's good for the world

good for the dollar right because you

you said well how does Bitcoin deal with

150 other currencies or what maybe

that's 120 well the dirty secret is

they're all pegged to the dollar except

for the failing ones there's only two

types of currencies in the well there's

three types of currencies in the world

Natalie if you break it all down there's

currencies that are exactly explicitly

pegged to the dollar right the Dr

explicitly pegged to the dollar the CNY

y explicitly pegged to the dollar right

there's a lot of lot of those currencies

where they lit so

China they literally

they keep it exactly Peg the dollar it's

just the US dollar then there's another

set of currencies that quote unquote

float and they like do this plus or

minus 5% y they're nominally PL pegged

to the dollar right the Swiss frank the

Euro all of these

um they're they're not really floating

they're just enough of a floating to

make it interesting but they but as soon

as as they get too strong or too weak uh

the monetary authorities move to bring

them back into parody with the dollar

nobody really wants them to move so

they're on the dollar standard as well

and then there's a third set of

currencies that aren't that don't bother

to be pegged to the dollar they would be

um the Niara the Venezuelan

bolevard right there's whatever they use

in Cuba right um and in uh the Lebanese

pound

the Turkish

L they all fall in the category of

collapsing failing so you you pretty

much got every currency that sort of

works is pegged to the dollar and every

other currency is failing and you're and

so they don't work so how does how does

Bitcoin uh you know sit next to them

it's not competing with the dollar

what's gonna what's going to happen is

if the US licenses digital currency and

we go from 50 billion in stable coin to

1.5 trillion to 15

trillion it just means there's going to

be a demand for 15 trillion dollars of

us sovereign debt that's going to be

bought by the digital currency companies

which is why of course you would just

put them in the US have them audited by

if we dropped the war on crypto Auditors

would audit the stable coin companies

they could do business with the banks

they could relocate to the US they would

buy up

10 trillion dollar worth of us sovereign

debt and they would compete with US

Banks and may the better company win and

the winners would be the American people