FYM News: Michael Saylor Explains Bitcoin on Tucker Carlson Today - full interview (720p)
Finn Kellow-Webb · 2021-12-01 · 1h 20m · View on YouTube →
[Music]
welcome to tucker carlson today if
you're like most people you're perfectly
aware there's something called
bitcoin which is something called a
cryptocurrency may have been skeptical
of it maybe even dismissive but as the
years have passed it's become obvious to
everyone that it's not going away and
it's probably going to be a central
feature of our future is this a good
thing is it a bad thing can you benefit
from it and by the way what is it
exactly you may have been afraid to ask
that question so we've searched long and
hard for about five years actually to
find someone who can answer all of those
questions in a credible way that
non-experts can understand we think
we've found one he is michael saylor you
probably recognize he's an entrepreneur
of course co-founder and ceo of
microstrategy he is a huge
investor in bitcoin specifically and we
think
maybe despite that or because of it or
both
the man to ask so he joins us now
michael said we're really happy to have
you here thank you very much thanks for
having me tucker so i basically summed
up my own position as clearly as i
possibly could i didn't know what to
make of cryptocurrency i don't
understand it
i made fun of it it's clearly not going
away it's clearly a really big deal
so let's just start at the beginning if
you don't mind explaining what is it
okay what is bitcoin bitcoin is the
first engineered monetary system in the
history of the human race
full stop
so now to explain it the first question
is what's money
the second question is what's the
problem
and the third question is what's the
solution right
bitcoin is the solution now go back to
the beginning what is money well an
economy consists of good services and
property you know i want you to do
something for me i want that product i
want you to manufacture something for me
i want that house i want that land
that's half the economy
now the question is how do i send 37
horses to you
and then how do we keep the books
balanced so you have to send me back
money
money is social
economic
energy it is it is money is monetary
energy or it's it's the energy the
backhaul energy that we use to trade
with if i can send you 10 bushels of
corn and you can send me money equal to
10 bushels of corn then we can trade
with each other so in the history of the
world human beings have tried different
monies we've used sea shells we use the
giant stone coin or the yap people we
use tobacco bales in uh in pre and
colonial america we've used copper coins
silver coins we've used stone coins we
use glass beads in africa these are all
types of money eventually we got to got
to settle on gold and gold coins as
money but gold was never fast enough as
money how do you move
10 tons of gold from here to there
so ultimately people use ledgers
and those ledgers were issued by a
merchant or they were issued by a mayor
or they're issued by an emperor and you
know you can go back 5000 years and you
can find sumerian tablets in clay where
they've etched in like 37
you know bushels of oats in return for
something these were the ledgers
so
uh money
is is that
that shared ledger of who owes what to
whom
and um and and a lot of times the money
is a token like a glass b but the
problem with the glass bead is if the
africans use the glass bead and the
europeans show up and they can
manufacture a million glass beads the
europeans dump a million glass beads on
the africans the africans lose their
homes and their livestock and all their
wealth and they're impoverished so if
you have weak money and someone else has
strong money if they can manufacture the
money like
in the pacific islands they use stone
coins some europeans showed up in a ship
and he realized that stone coins are
rare on one island but they're very
plentiful big stones on another on he
sailed to the other island picked up the
stones brought them back to the first
island and slaved everybody on the
island
i was like
problem so so the problem with money is
how do we keep track
in a fair distribution of who owns a
claim to what if there's
if there's a hundred million dollars
worth of capital in the economy of
products and property and and and
corporations and the like you have to
have a hundred million dollars of money
now
if i issue a hundred million dollars of
currency
it equals all the stuff in the economy
now if i start to inflate the currency
and i issue another 10 million dollars
yes
now i've taken 10 percent of the economy
and given it to my friend that's the
inflation rate if i keep inflating the
currency if i double the amount of
currency
but the amount of stuff in the economy
is constant
well then the price of everything that's
scarce and desirable doubles
yes okay if it's not scarce and
desirable it won't go up but if there's
a hundred things and there's 10 times as
much money it stands the reason that the
things cost 10 times as much
so
so money is is economic energy
the problem is inflation
because in the history of the world
we have inflation when uh when the
romans created gold coins they start
with a certain amount of gold and they
would cut the they would debase the
currency right they would cut the amount
of gold or cut the amount of silver in
the coin and when they cut it to a small
enough level no one would take the coin
anymore so the mercenaries don't want
the coin the emperor can't pay the
mercenaries the empire topples
if i just issue you paper
you know whatever the paper might be and
then i triple the supply of the paper
eventually the currency collapses
so the problem with currencies in the
history of ta of time is the trust in
the issuer
you're trusting an individual
right you're either trusting a bank or a
jp morgan or you're trusting a family
the rothschilds
or you're trusting a king
or prince
or you're trusting the mayor or you're
trusting a government
now if we look at the modern era
economists like seyfadina moos who wrote
the bitcoin standard he estimates that
the inflation rate in the modern era
dollar weighted is 14 percent
okay think about that
for the last decade on average uh all in
the world we've been inflating the
currency by 14 per year
now it happens that that's equal to the
rate at which the s p 500 index is going
up 14 on average a year for 10 years
running
um
that the
what's the issue well
what is inflation it's not really well
understood some people think it's
cpi
cpi is the rate at which a market basket
of consumer goods is going up but the
government gets to pick the basket i've
noticed okay if i pick things like
domino's pizza and streaming youtube
videos they will never go up in price i
can actually
i can actually adjust the basket so i
just pick things that don't go up in
price
the shape the case shiller index is up
27 percent year-over-year you know in
july so the price of that average
single-family homes up 27
homes in canada up 15 percent the s p
index is up 34 percent this year over 12
months
what's the inflation rate if you wanted
to buy a basket of desirable stocks
the inflation rate is the s p index
so
i can calculate any inflation rate i
want inflation is a vector if if i want
to be rich then i need to buy scarce
desirable assets so my inflation rates
the rate at which picassos and leonardo
da vinci paintings and stocks and and uh
property in new york city is going up in
price or a house in the hamptons that's
a high inflation rate
if i want to be a consumer and live in
my parents basement
and order domino's pizza and take uber's
and watch netflix and stream youtube the
inflation rate will be the cpi it'll be
very low
so
you can have any inflation rate you want
as a practical matter the best inflation
rate for an investor
or for anybody that wants to stay
wealthy or be wealthy if you're
concerned about maintaining your
economic purchasing power
it's the monetary inflation rate the
rate at which the supply of money is
expanding
the supply of money expanded maybe 10
percent for a decade before covet and
the s p went up 10 a year
you know we know the money supply
expanded 30 percent postcovid the s p is
up 34
the feds stepped on uh on the money
printer the same with the eu central
bank
in the western world in the strongest
countries we see
we see the money supply expanding 20 25
or more per year the currency
is collapsing it's losing it's losing
its values being devalued
in in uh weaker countries
go to argentina the official
inflation rates 45 the unofficial
inflation rates 85 percent
go to venezuela
the inflation rate i mean the currencies
collapsed 98 99 in a year uh same in
lebanon 90
currency collapse in a year so
what you have right now going on in the
world is currency collapse which we call
inflation
and
the mainstream view of inflation is it's
only cpi and sometimes it's pce it's
it's an index of things not including
the highly volatile food and energy
right but in but in what universe can
you live without food and energy exactly
but but it's not really good like common
sense says
if if everybody tells me inflation rates
two percent or five percent but the
houses are costing 20 more 15 percent
more
and everything
if you talk to anybody that manufactures
anything they'll say that the prices are
up 20 25 year-over-year
so how is it i'm supposed to actually
buy something how do you buy a share of
stock that went up 34 a year when you
got a cpi adjustment of 2 or 5
so it sounds like the people causing the
inflation are lying about the inflation
classically
i i just i just first of all
if you define inflation as the cpi
you're using simple arithmetic to
describe the economy
you can know you can't define you can't
describe the economy and model it with
simple arithmetic any more than you
could describe fluid dynamics or
aerodynamics with simple arithmetic
right the fluid is flowing around the
airfoil you have to
multi-in-dimensional you know algebra
and vector calculus to describe a
complicated phenomena
the economy is a complicated phenomena
another way to say it is the price of
everything is is varying everywhere at
different rates all the time right right
common sense says the price of housing
in the hamptons is going up at a
different rate than the price of land in
kansas
and
the price will be going and the price in
a certain jurisdiction for a certain use
subject to certain regulations will go
up at a different rate than another
jurisdiction for another use
so
the problem is inflation
inflation's a phenomena whereby
a government authority prints more
currency
right and why do they print more
currency because if i want to pay a
trillion dollar bill i either have to
tax you a trillion dollars or i have to
print a trillion dollars of money turns
out that it's a lot easier to print
money than it is to tax people and so
it's either inflation or taxation
throughout the history of the world from
roman emperors before
ev every single coinage system every
monetary system ever established
collapsed because of inflation if you
look at the history of of the sumerian
states you know the the persian states
the greek states the romans states
middle east
look at all the all the renaissance
italian states
look at every king of england
if you just go forward you find every
one of these currencies
started by issuing i issue a coin with
this much gold in it and then i cut it
and i cut it and then i go to silver and
then i go to copper and then i coat it
with
some brass or some nickel you remember
what happened in the u.s where we used
to actually have silver quarters yeah
and now we don't because the silver was
more valuable than the quarter yes
why right we're debasing the currency
right so the problem is inflation
and inflation just to be really clear
what you just said which is fascinating
is caused by expanding the money supply
yes
simply put
you live in a town there's a hundred
nice houses
there's a million dollars in the money
supply the mayor prints another million
dollars distributed to the citizens
what's the price of the house do right
and so and you're so you're saying that
inflation is always the cause of the
collapse of the currency and the
collapse the currency sounds to me like
it's the cause of the collapse of the
civilization
yep
because if
if you look at all these wars right how
long does a war go on it go
in world war one every single nation
went off the gold standard within a week
of the declaration of world war one
the germans the french the the brits the
americans we printed money
uh the money got debased there was
rampant inflation eventually after four
years you can print money for about four
years before you collapse the currency
and then you don't have any means to
fight the war the germans sued for peace
because they ran out of money after four
years okay world war ii we ran out of
money in four years vietnam
you know we paid for it with inflation
eventually um eventually nixon had to go
off the gold standard because they'd
printed so much money they couldn't
redeem the gold they defaulted on it we
went to the fiat standard and we just
begin to print more money
you'll find that throughout history and
of course put yourself into the position
of the roman emperor or
the city mayor or the noble
you you have a monopoly on the coinage
you need to pay the army you can either
go to everybody that lives in your
nation and take half their stuff
or you can just print twice as many
coins but what i thought the whole idea
behind modern monetary theory was as
long as you have the world's reserve
currency inflation isn't a threat to you
well
if you print
how would you say this if there's a
certain amount of goods and services and
capital in the economy and you just keep
printing money
you're not
creating any more
capital in the economy you're not
creating any more products you're not
creating any more buildings you're not
creating any more services all you're
doing is doubling and tripling the
amount of currency so
if i just gave everybody in the united
states a billion dollars
and everybody went out to buy a ferrari
right would there be 250 million
ferraris like
i i can i can print the money right like
look at venezuela look at zimbabwe they
can print the money you can give someone
a trillion dollar note
but that doesn't create more stuff
right you're just creating paper
so ultimately
that in that inflation it works only to
an extent if you can export it and what
you're doing is you're not
you're not creating anything what you're
doing is you're redistributing wealth
like if there's ten billion dollars in
the economy and there's this much stuff
and i give a billion dollars to you
you now get 10 of the stuff from
somebody else which means that everybody
else lost 10 percent of their stuff
right
as i inflate the economy i'm actually
or inflate the currency i'm actually
redistributing wealth from those that uh
store their life savings in currency or
currency derivatives
in cash if you have if you had a million
dollars in the bank 12 months ago
today it buys you 34 percent less
right
the s p is up 34 you have a million
dollars if you put it in the stock
market you've got 1.34 million dollars
if you hold it in cash you've got a
million dollars if you go to buy a stock
now it costs you 34 more to buy the
stock if you go to buy a house in the
hamptons it's 40 more to buy the house
in the hamptons you know if you
other things are going up in price your
cash is fixed
so it turns out that
that um you've got some people that
don't have net cash positions if you're
if you're a sophisticated investor and
you're wealthy
all of your assets are in property you
have buildings you have companies you
have you have real estate you have
collectibles you have
sports franchises right your things if
you're
middle class working class you're
working for cash
and whatever cash you've got right
is either sitting in the bank or uh you
don't have a lot of net cash so
the real significance here is
if the dollar loses 20 percent of its
purchasing power each year
then
the value of your salary is
deteriorating by 20 a year it's not
falling at the rate of cpi inflation
it's falling at the rate of monetary
inflation
the road to serfdom is working
exponentially harder for a currency
growing exponentially weaker okay that's
the problem you're a dentist you're
right you're you're generating five
percent more a year for a decade i'm
inflating the money supply at 20 a year
for a decade
if you save every penny in 10 years
you'll be able to buy one quarter of
what you could have bought today because
the price of housing is going up at 20
percent a year and you're just not ever
going to catch up right because
you're uh you're getting paid the
currency
the only way you can actually stay ahead
is to grow your cash flows faster than
the rate of monetary inflation and
that's why the rate of expansion of the
money supply is so critical and that
that there's not even a word for that
other than cost of capital the best
surrogate for monetary inflation in my
opinion is the s p index a distributed
market basket of scarce desirable
products
so
money is energy
the problem is inflation
if if we're inflating at 10 a year you
know you've got 10 pints of blood in
your body will you go to give blood i
take a pint out when i take a pint of
blood out of your body you lose the red
blood platelets anybody common sense
knows you run the boston marathon the
next day you got a problem you can't
perform as an athlete it takes about
four to six weeks to replace the red
blood cells so when i take a pint of
blood you're not going to be able to
perform for a month to two probably two
months later
now imagine if i actually took a pint of
your blood every month
forever
that's inflation so i'm running an
economy i'm the king
yeah you have a dojo and i send someone
from the government and we just take a
pint of blood from every one of your
fighters and then next month we do it
again and next month we do it again and
next month we do it again
now
what do you expect your ac your athletic
performance to be
in decline yeah yeah that's the problem
of an of the currency which is
collapsing but let me tell you that's
ten percent
venezuela is not ten percent zimbabwe is
not ten percent
the argentine peso was one peso to the
dollar twenty years ago and it's like
it's pushing toward 200 pesos to the
dollar today they've lost 95 98 99
percent
in a hyper-inflating economy or rapidly
inflating economy you're not losing 10
percent of your economic value a year
you're losing 20 to 25 to 30 to 40. so
that's like i send some dude to the dojo
to bleed you every week
and then at some point i'm sending
someone to bleed you every day and
that's the weimar republic right
hyperinflation
when
not another metaphor the currency
is to the economy
what your blood is to your body
and economic energy or money is to the
currency what oxygen is to your blood
so
common sense says if i keep sucking the
oxygen out of the room if i suck the
oxygen out of the room you're going to
either suffocate or freeze to death
and if i keep sucking the economic
energy out of the currency the economy
collapses in the extreme
you get ripped back to stone age border
right when the money doesn't work
anymore i have to trade you cigarettes
for bullets right
and the problem with that is
is the economy becomes a million times
less efficient right if you don't have
money
now how many countries in the world have
a collapsed currency
66 are dollarized there's 180 about
countries there's 130 floating
currencies
all of them are weaker than the dollar
the us dollar is the world's reserve
currency the u.s dollar is expanding it
was expanding 10 percent a year for a
decade now expanding at 14 a year it
expanded 34 over the past 12 months the
dollar is weakening
okay it's like the auctions getting
sucked out of the room so tucker if i
told you the auction is getting sucked
out of the room and there's an oxygen
mask drops out of the ceiling over there
what would you do
run for it yeah put the auction mask on
bitcoin is the oxygen mask
the idea of bitcoin let's let's move to
the third place and say you've made the
most compelling case i've ever heard for
the need for something like bitcoin
so you're saying just to make sure that
everyone's following this the whole
point of bitcoin
is to escape
the inflation vortex that has consumed
all these previous empires
the point of bitcoin is to fix the money
and money is energy and energy is life
and if i keep sucking the energy out of
the economy i'm sucking the oxygen out
of your system either under the best
case you perform poorly under the worst
case i suffocate you to death or freeze
you to death that's the problem that's
why that's why empires collapse
that's why economies collapse and the
problem it's not just a problem for an
individual it's not just a problem for a
family it's a problem for every
institution it's problem for every
company it's a problem for every city
every municipality every government
every civilization they all have this
problem and you can generally trace the
problem to
i i fought a war i couldn't afford to
fight
and i paid for it with money i didn't
have
yeah right
if you
you declare war on covid you've got a
war you declare war in vietnam you
declare a war on fill in the blank every
history is full of wars
if i had to fight them with taxes
then eventually my population would say
no more we don't want to pay the tax if
i fight them by inflating the coinage
then i get a couple years two three four
years before people realize it
eventually i just collapsed the currency
so
money is essential to civilization
the problem is inflation and why does it
happen it's a natural human condition
because as you have an authority that
controls the money the temptation to
inflate the money supply is
is omnipresent and and inescapable and
every civilization has suffered from it
at one point in time what is bitcoin
well bitcoin is the world's first
engineered monetary system and what
happened is a set of engineers nameless
engineers
recoiled in horror
after the great financial crisis with
all the bank bailouts and they looked
and they said this just isn't fair it
isn't right
we want to create a better money and
they used two technologies they use the
internet
the idea that i could internet i could
network hundreds of thousands or
millions of computers
and they used cryptography the idea that
i could cryptographically sign something
so that it could not be tampered with
with anyone friend or foe
and using those two technologies they
conceptualized
the idea of an immutable ledger
if you will a bank in cyberspace
what if a hundred people got together a
hundred people with money got together
and they said we're going to create a
bank in cyberspace
and um
we want to put our money there and we
don't trust each other
we don't trust the government we don't
trust any
corporation we don't even trust any one
computer
so we create a program that keeps track
of a ledger
21 million coins
or shares in the bank divided divisible
by a hundred million called this down to
a satoshi so 2.1 quadrillion satoshi's
you don't have to know that all you need
to know is there's 21 million coin units
you can't make any more and they wanted
to create a credit so that they could um
they could send their money to each
other to anybody in the network
they could store it for a thousand years
10 000 years a million years forever
and they don't have to trust anybody
so
they created this idea of of um bitcoin
it's an asset
that's protected by cryptography
and it's stored on a ledger
software the software administers the
ledger
the twist is
we distributed the software on thousands
and thousands of separate computers
every com every bitcoin node is running
a copy of the ledger so everybody in the
world that that has their money in the
bank has a copy of all of uh the money
in the bank and all the transactions
since the beginning of time
so it's the immutable truth
every 10 minutes the system
takes a batches a set of contra of
transactions and then redistributes the
money based upon
upon the instructions of the owners if i
want to send you my bitcoin i send it
and it goes to you and every single
computer in the network updates that and
they all check it cryptographically
using using uh modern encryption
now how do we defend the network
there there's
there's really three nodes of interest
to make this uh compelling the first
node is that bitcoin node that keeps
track of that ledger it's the most
secure uh database in the world and it's
a database of immutable truth it's a
it's the ledger of money the second node
is a minor it's uh it's um
a sha-256 or it's an encrypting miner
that's generating hash functions to
protect the network and there are
millions of them and they're all
competing with each other to build the
next block
there's only one out of two million
involved in this network it's like every
every miner gives you a lottery ticket
and one of the two million will get to
build an xbox and we'll get paid a lot
of money like three hundred thousand
dollars and you don't know which one
so the miners are a wall of encrypted
energy
they're converting electricity into
hashes and then inside that wall of
electricity or wall of energy
is the bitcoin ledger which is
distributed in a decentralized fashion
and there's one other interesting node
called a lightning node this is a layer
2 decentralized system this is
decentralized payments it'll move small
amounts of bitcoin at the speed of light
programmatically almost for free okay
so
bitcoin is a decentralized
it's a decentralized piece of software
the brilliance of it is it's a bank and
cyberspace that nobody controls
nobody can corrupt
it's it it's a bank run by incorruptable
software offering a global
affordable simple
secure
savings account
for everybody on earth
that has neither the means nor the
inclination to run their own hedge fund
you have some money you have life
savings you simply don't want to lose it
you want to put it in a bank
so bitcoin is that bank and cyber space
these engineers came up with this idea
what are the engineers well we don't
know we know some of them they're the
cypherpunks they were they were into
cryptography
uh the most important of them was
satoshi who we don't know who it was
satoshi wrote the white paper created
the first version of bitcoin gave it to
the rest
and initially there wasn't any money in
the network they just ran it for a year
as a hobby
right um
and then over time there was a famous
famous transaction where somebody bought
uh a pizza
right for like 10 000 bitcoin
one pizza and uh and that was the first
transaction and then the network
gradually began to monetize as people
bought into the network
and so
it was it's like a fire in cyber space
should we be nervous that we don't know
the identity of the founder
no i don't think we should be nervous we
should be joyful because
for bitcoin to work it needs to be money
of the people it needs to be not
controlled by any individual it needs to
be not under the thumb of a founder or
corporation or one strong holder the
most important thing satoshi did was he
created this gift he gave it to the
world
i assume he some people think she some
people think it's multiple people
but satoshi gave this gift to the wall
and disappeared and uh and satoshi mined
about a million coins getting it started
but they never those coins never moved
never they've never been moved satoshi's
never appeared again and then the
network was was in essence a community
development all around the world for the
next decade and it's simply grown from
a million dollars in the bank to 10
million to 100 million to a billion to
10 billion
to 100 billion
in march of uh our second quarter of
2020 was about 180 billion dollars in
this network and that's where i got
involved i was late
but when i got involved what i saw was
uh i saw
an engineered monetary asset a digital
gold if you will sitting on an open big
tech monetary network and i said
this is an economic imperative because
this solves the problem of inflation for
a corporation with lots of cash
i had a lot of cash and it was i thought
i was going to lose all of it if i
didn't invest in something and i said it
is also
a moral imperative
this is a technology to give property
rights to 8 billion people on the planet
that don't have property rights right
bitcoin is the highest form of property
the human race has has ever invented and
i'll explain why in a second
there's two billion people don't have a
bank
right you can give everybody on the
planet a bank and property rights that
that cannot be corrupted and cannot be
inflated and confiscated you can give it
to them for the price of a free download
on android
on if you've got a 50 phone and you can
download some software you can have your
own bank your own property rights your
own economic freedom and economic
empowerment so it's a moral imperative
and then finally it's a technical
imperative
you're talking about the digital
transformation of everything else the
digital transformation of property of
gold of banks the digital transformation
of war the digital transformation of
government of security it's a it's a
deep idea
but in essence what we're
if the economy's got
500 trillion dollars worth of property
and corporations and stuff in it
well digital digital property is capital
is money is worth that amount it's worth
half of everything right and so
we never figured out how to digitally
transform money or digitally transform
capital
we did digitally transform photos and
videos in education and books
and relationships and communications
right
and you know the secret to success of
google and amazon and apple and facebook
is the digital transformation of
entertainment and education and
communications but think about what it
means to digitally transform 10 trillion
dollars of gold or a hundred trillion
dollars of property
or a hundred trillion dollars of
currency
so
these engineers they wanted to solve
that problem and of course
here's the big there's so many big ideas
one is
it was engineered to be a digital goal
with none of gold's defects
21 million coins but you can't make any
more the problem with gold is gold
miners inflate the gold supply
and gold bankers inflate the gold paper
supply they dump gold derivatives on the
market
with every other asset on earth anything
else you can own houses gold silver
commodities stocks bonds
when the price goes up
the supply increases
if i increase the supply the price of of
any stock by a factor of 10 the company
issues more stock of course
if i buy all the bonds all the municipal
bonds
the price of bonds go up people issue
more bonds
right if i drive up the price of gold by
a factor of 10 people print more gold or
mine more gold
bitcoin's the only thing in the world
that's inelastic to price if the price
of bitcoin triples you can't make any
more if the price goes up by a factor of
a million you can't make any more now so
let me get tucker let me just give you
one more engineering insight
in engineering
there's something called conservation of
energy yes and the whole point of
conservation of energy is is energy can
either be made or destroyed there must
be conservation of it
the mathematical
metaphor the mathematical analogy to
that is proper math 10 plus 10 equals
20. 2 plus 2 equals 4.
if 10 plus 10 ever starts to equal 18
starts equaling 18
you've got a problem yeah if you have a
bathtub and there's a leak if you have a
swimming pool with a leak if i have
electric system with a short circuit
if i have if i have a leak in my
engineering system nothing works nothing
in the world of ocean engineering
aeronautical engineering electrical
engineering nothing works lest you
unless you respect conservation of
energy
the problem with inflation is inflation
does not respect conservation of energy
i'm i've got a leak in the system i've
designed a currency which is not
conservative
so properly understood if you said i
want a conservative money supply
a conservative money supply would be
there's a
10 billion dollars in the economy and
nobody prints anymore right and if you
and that's the austrian economic sound
money principle
bitcoin is a conservative monetary
system it's the first system that
respects the laws of thermodynamics and
the laws of physics and the laws of math
which means it is true
and pure
right it has integrity
if you have integrity
if you have something which is true and
pure and you have durability
then
you can build a family around it a life
around it a company around it
or civilization around it
steel is concentrated energy and
metallic form you ever walk in a steel
power steel plant and you look at the
energy going into steel refining
it's concentrated energy
the history of
the human race is the civilization that
channels energy most effectively always
wins steel trumps iron iron trumps
bronze bronze trumps
rocks
bows and arrows trump the guy with the
spear the guy with the spear beats the
guy with the knife it's always a matter
if you have air power you beat land
power sea power beats the beats the army
and nuclear power trumps everybody
and uh and so
if i have steel i have concentrated
metallic energy i can create a
skyscraper punched up 100 stories in
new york how long will it last 100 years
how long will a steel ship last longer
than you will last as long as it doesn't
corrode
wooden ships
not so much
wooden ships rot
right you want to build a building to
and punch it up against gravity and hold
it a hundred years you need concentrated
energy if you want to build
a trust fund that'll last a hundred
years
how do you save how do you save a
hundred thousand dollars for a hundred
years and give it to your great
grandkids
you put in the u.s dollar use 99
of your economic energy if you're maybe
99.5
you put in gold gold supply doubles
every 30 years the gold bankers keep
inflating the gold maybe you lose 90 of
your economic energy but that would be a
lucky happenstance because
just about every country on earth sees
the goal from their citizens the last
hundred years everybody even the u.s
they take your goal yeah so you want to
save money for 100 years you can't do it
with the currency you can't deal with
gold which company is going to be around
100 years
you want to you want to put 100 000 into
real estate in florida can you buy a
hundred thousand dollars let's say you
could
two percent tax
two percent maintenance four percent
maintenance fee four percent of a
hundred thousand four thousand dollars a
year
half-life like
your money's not going to last 100 years
how do i preserve my property which is
economic energy which is capital which
is money how do i preserve that
i need something harder
harder right more durable i need a steel
i need an economic steel
steel is concentrated metallic energy
bitcoin is concentrated digital energy
it's it's energy in digital form
it's vacuum-packed food it's something
sitting in uh
in orbit right
right
i eliminated the friction
on energy what's the half-life of energy
if i take a megawatt of power and i sell
it at 12 cents
a kilowatt hour i have about a million
bucks okay i'll give you a million
dollars of electricity how long can you
hold it in a battery you lose two
percent a month
you can't hold it very long you can lose
20 24
depletion rate and a battery of
electricity how do you send a million
dollars of electricity from new york to
tokyo
you can't you can send electricity 500
miles over a power line you'll lose 6
percent send it 10 times you'll lose 60
percent
it doesn't move
convert that energy that electricity
into digital energy a la bitcoin you
upgrade it
if you were to convert a megawatt of
power via bitcoin miner into bitcoin
you'd have about five million dollars
worth of bitcoin you can hold it forever
you can send it to tokyo for a nickel
okay you can put it in a trust fund
right
bitcoin's going up 170 a year for a
decade the s p 500 index is going up 14
a year on average for a decade gold is
flat it's not going anywhere it's
getting demonetized it's a dead rock and
a basement it's not fast enough you
can't put gold on an iphone
gold's getting depleted inflated and
manipulated away by the bankers and the
miners
so
bitcoin is simply
pure economic energy these engineers
satoshi and all of satoshi's compatriots
what they did is created uh an
engineered monetary asset on an open
permissionless network
that anybody could participate in
any country
any company any individual
you don't need a bank you don't need to
ask permission
right it is it is the ultimate
egalitarian
system
if you want to give property rights to
everybody in africa and south america
even in the face of a hostile regime you
can do it with a fifty dollar android
phone and a simple download
what's your next best idea
go to zimbabwe
okay you have a hundred bucks
how are you gonna store the hundred
dollars one more metaphor
if you can't store property if you have
no property rights that means you can't
store economic energy if i took away
every dime from your family
and you got up tomorrow you'd be worried
you'd lose your job you're going to go
hungry right you need money you've got a
bank you're in the western world you
have western privilege lucky you you
have stocks
if you have stocks they go up 34 a year
maybe you're keeping ahead of the
inflation rate if i take away your
stocks and you have to store in in
currency well now you can't stay ahead
if i take away your bank you can't even
have the currency what if the dollar is
not the worst currency the dollar is the
best currency if i put you in zimbabwe
you know
it's much worse if you're in argentina
you lost 40 to 60 percent of your
purchasing power this year
if you're in if you're in venezuela much
worse so what does it mean
uh to not have property rights and did
not have a strong currency it's like
being a type 1 diabetic
if you're type 1 diabetic you can't form
insulin insulin converts excess
nutritional energy into fat
fat is an organic battery
fat will keep you alive 90 days without
food if you can't form fat you can eat
continuously non-stop and you will
starve to death
so
diabetes before insulin was invented was
a death sentence
if you live in a country with a
collapsed currency
you're a di economic diabetic
in the two weeks after you lose your job
you can't feed your family you can't
feed yourself you can't plan for the
future
so now we're back to what's the basis of
civilization and what's the basis of
of virtue in a society
you've got to be able to plan for the
future you've got to look out 10 years
and believe that you can provide for
your family what's the point of
investing in something if you think that
everything's going to hell in five years
or 10 years
how did i get into bitcoin i had a
company with 500 million dollars in cash
earning zero percent interest i heard
the banker say we're not even thinking
about thinking about raising interest
rates i saw a k-shaped recovery where
everybody on wall street got 30 percent
richer doing nothing in a year where
everybody on main street had to work 30
harder to stay still
that's what i saw last year if you're on
wall street with a billion dollars you
ended the year with a billion three
if you're on main street working for a
living selling something by the sweat of
your brow you had to raise your prices
30 percent working harder in order to
generate 30 more money to buy the same
thing you could have bought before the
crisis
what i saw was
two thousand people in my company
working hard doing a hundred thousand
things right every year could make fifty
million dollars
and the money in the bank was going to
lose 100 million dollars a year in value
doing nothing
and
we were running as hard as we could and
going backwards
right
that's the problem it's like uh
you're in a boat
you're rowing across you're in a rowboat
you're going across the water and the
wind starts blowing in your face
and now you're getting blown backwards
you're going to row harder the wind is
the monetary inflation rate right right
when it at ten percent wind is hard when
it got to twenty percent when who can
grow their cash flows twenty five
percent a year
who can do it a monopoly a digital tech
monopoly might but i mean nobody else
can dentists can't doctor can't
normal people can't normal company can't
so the wind starts blowing double and
triple in your face you're rowing you're
not going to get across the atlantic
you're going to die on that row boat so
what do you do
turn the boat around
put up a sale
sale with the win
yeah that's what i did so make a let me
give you an economic short story here
the company's worth a billion dollars
this is a micro strategy we've got a 500
million dollar software company that
generates 50 75 million a year in cash
flow
we have 500 million dollars in the bank
we're valued at one times revenue plus
the cash
and the cash is going to lose 20 30
percent of its value so i'm looking at
losing a hundred million dollars a year
150 million i'm doing nothing just
sitting there just sitting there doing
nothing
well so what do i do i said well i'm
going to buy something so i went and i
bought bitcoin i bought 250 million
dollars worth of it
and then i did it i i offered to buy
back 250 million dollars in my stock
because if my shareholders didn't like
the idea i figured i'd buy them out at a
premium
after the buyback i had another 175
million dollars left i bought more
bitcoin we had 425 million dollars of
bitcoin
when i started this journey tucker the
stock was 120 a share
we bought out our our limited partners
we bought our shareholders 140 a share
that didn't like the idea
um
the stock traded up bitcoin traded up we
doubled our initial uh our initial
investment the stock kept going up and
then i looked and i said i'm just going
to borrow money i went and i borrowed
650 million dollars
at 75 basis points in the capital market
i issued a convertible bond
i bought the bitcoin
19 000.
the stock kept trading up bitcoin kept
trading up we made
billions at that point
i went back to the market i borrowed a
billion dollars at zero percent interest
because why wouldn't you
and i
if the if the money supply is expanding
at 25 a year and you can borrow money at
zero percent interest all you got to do
is buy something which is scarce
right so i bought a billion dollars of
bitcoin i issued a billion dollars a
bond to make a long story short we ended
up borrowing 2.2 billion dollars at one
and a half percent interest we bought
the bitcoin
uh bitcoin has hit an all-time high we
now have about seven and a half billion
dollars worth of bitcoin
we've made about a four billion dollar
investment profit on it the stock went
from 120 to 850.
we generated about 8 billion dollars in
shareholder value in 12 months have you
talked to your limited partners who got
out early
it's complicated when you're public
traded you can't even admit
but you know so now what are we we're
like uh we're a 500 million dollar
software company generating maybe 80 to
100 million dollars a year in cash flow
growing zero to 10 a year right with
a seven and a half to eight billion
dollar
endowment that's growing 170 a year
but you know it's like
why not like so now you know if you're a
university you want an endowment and now
i can we can do what we want so
somebody gets it first of all that was
how long have we gone how long is this
would that you spoke uninterrupted for
about 50 minutes you can cut that no no
i know that was amazing that was like
one of the most little things i've ever
heard i have two two questions okay
um
all of this is predicated
the the remarkable case you just made on
behalf of bitcoin is predicated on the
idea that bitcoin is safe and
fundamentally as a software matter they
can't be hacked you said that the
database that undergirds it is the most
secure in the world
you're why are we so positive that when
the caa can be hacked
that this can't be
yeah
when we
when we started down this journey
we were looking for
digital goal we're looking for
engineered perfect gold
that you can move at the speed of light
and program on a computer yes and the
theoretical answer to that is a crypto
asset that's got a fixed supply
that's secure yes so
we went on on this search and there are
10 000 cryptos tucker
right we had to look is it bitcoin is it
bitcoin cash is it one of the clones is
it is it dogecoin is it you know fill in
the blank
um
we applied the microstrategy test it's a
three-part test
will it be banned
will it be hacked
can it be copied
right
if you can duplicate it 18 000 times
then it's not scarce and it's not unique
it's not the dominant one
okay and and if you if it gets banned
that's no good for us and if it gets
hacked that's not good for us so first
of all how can you know the answer to
this from uh from the engineering itself
well you can't
if the year is 2009 or 2010 you don't
really know whether it'll be banned
copied or hacked right there's a lot of
uncertainty
we started on our quest in 2020 so in
2020 we had 12 years of history so what
did we see well
by 2020 the system had been attacked
thousands and thousands of times but no
one had hacked it
so we had we had a hundred and eighty
billion dollars sitting in a network
that no one could figure out how to hack
no one ever hacked it people by the way
people will hack the banks around it or
the wallets around it but not the
underlying network so we had 12 years of
of no hacking incident no
and and very good reason to believe it
won't be hacked because it is the most
secure database in the world and why is
it the most secure
because the way it works is you have to
you have to run a sha 256 asic miner
it's a very special purpose computer
that computer only does one thing it
protects bitcoin that's all it can do it
can't it can't stream video it can't
process for aws
that that network is million or that
computer is millions of times more
efficient at
generating uh crypto hashes that defend
the bitcoin network that's just it's a
special purpose thing seven generations
if you turned all of the aws network or
the azure network against it it wouldn't
make a dent
because this is a very special purpose
piece of hardware so the technology
that's used to secure the network is
called proof of work
and proof of work is
is i pour a lot of energy into the
network and i run it through
an encryption algorithm and that's a
shaw 256 hash generator and the
combination of those two things with the
protocol means that the dominant
crypto asset proof of work network will
always be the most secure one and
everyone will always defect from the
weaker one to the stronger one so
we saw that it hadn't been hacked
there's no way to there's no way to
finesse it
no matter what you do because it really
is a
it's a brute force
crypt wall of encrypted energy
if you want to attack the network and
even try to meddle with one block you'd
have to throw 10 billion dollars of
capital equipment at it and it'll
probably take you two to four years to
get ready to do that okay so that leads
exactly to my next question so that
that's really
the
only government would do that and that
that leads to next question which is
right
um so like what's the government of
government is an organization that
controls a discrete territory has
borders
and mints the coins issues the currency
so
this is seems to me like an existential
threat no overstatement to the the idea
of a nation state an independent
international currency
why would governments
allow this
yeah so that gets to the question of
will it be banned
uh
by the way can't be hacked for what i
said it can't be copied because you got
to come up with the same 10 billion
worth of energy and special purpose
hardware and
if you had that much energy and hardware
you'd be getting paid 10 billion dollars
a year to use it to protect bitcoin or
get paid zero to try to copy it so right
so it doesn't make any sense to try to
copy it it's like the dominant monetary
network like google and facebook are
also dominant networks once you get to
that dominant position
it it's obscenely difficult
coming back to the banning um
there's a there's a kind of misnomer
people often call it crypto currencies
currencies but it's not a currency it's
an asset it's a crypto asset so you're
right tucker if the government thought
it was a currency and if it competed
with the us dollar or other currencies
then they would take offense and they
will suppress it
but on the other hand if it's viewed as
an asset which competes with gold or
with index funds or with bonds or
property or real estate just a store of
value or silver
then
you know you can hold
sp s p index funds and bonds and you can
own land and you can own property the
government would simply like you to
disclose when you sell it to someone
else at a profit and pay your taxes on
it a capital gains tax and if you wanted
to wire a hundred million dollars worth
of property to someone else they
probably want you to disclose that per
the aml kyc
you know anti-money it will be earned
enough honestly
it can be owned anonymously except
as a practical matter if you want to
acquire large sums of it
you have to acquire them on registered
exchanges so you'd be going to an
institutional grade custodian which is
licensed so what you see
maybe you get to a very important point
the government is regulated
where it is allowed and it's allowed
everywhere except there's some there's
some noise in china china is a different
situation in the western world
the regulations are you can hold this as
long as you uh disclose it via a
regulated entity so you're buying it
through
through a registered exchange and then
when you transfer it you're subject to
irs tax
you have to pay capital gains tax could
you conduct anonymous
exchanges
with it i mean i i'm just thinking
through ways that it would undermine the
authority of the government which by the
way i'm not against necessarily but
that's actually uh the primary
the primary issues before congress and
the senate right now right treasury
if you look at the past week the
treasury the sec the cftc congress and
the center are engaged in a
in a
enthusiastic dialogue about what kind of
regulations will be applied to the
transfer
and uh and to the utilization of crypto
assets
but the most important for example
uh
if you issue a crypto asset which looks
like a security like mikey coin
yeah
if i create mikey coin and i keep half
of it and i i issue the rest and i
market it it looks more like a security
or a stock
right that's going to fall under the
jurisdiction of the sec most likely
right if it looks like there's a there's
a set of crypto assets called stable
coins
that look like u.s dollars
uh the the president's working committee
about a week ago suggested that only
fdic approved banks should issue stable
coins they want anybody issuing stable
coins to be fdic
approved insured licensed so
there is regulation coming into the
space
ultimately
i think that the security tokens will be
under pressure the stable coins will be
treated like money markets in cyberspace
and probably
it's
we're rotating from the crypto
entrepreneurs to the institutional
publicly traded institutions large banks
etc
bitcoin
what it was going to be was a question
until 2014 when the irs designated his
property
you're either property or your currency
in an inflationary environment money
decomposes into currency and into an
asset component uh or property come on
if you will the currency is a medium of
exchange that you can transmit without
incurring a tax obligation right
right i give you a million dollars worth
of dollars you hold it for a year you
give it to her there's no tax bill
it's just it's a stable coin stable
medium of exchange on the other hand i
give you a million dollars of bitcoin
you hold it for a year
you give a million dollars a bitcoin to
her and if the price doubled
then you owe a five hundred thousand
dollar you're a tax on five hundred
thousand dollars of capital gain
see or actually maybe yeah in that case
right you transferred a million dollars
of bitcoin with a basis of 500 000 a
capital gain of 500 000 you owe capital
gains when you transfer could i make
that and not that i'm a criminal or
anything but i i don't know i don't
think everything needs to be monitored
by the government could i
under the current system transfer that
bitcoin to someone else without the
government knowing i think right now in
the u.s and all the institutional
custodians i know of if you go above ten
thousand dollars the which is the aml
limit for most banks they're required to
disclose that
right so that so we're moving to the
point where if you're transferring
property like if you wired me a million
dollars with apple stock right right
your bank you know there'd be a tax bill
on that for sure if you wire me a
million dollars of bitcoin through any
kind of institutional exchange there's a
a tax it's impossible to
buy and sell bitcoin outside of
institutional exchanges
there are peer-to-peer networks and and
there's a lot of back and forth over
whether or not those are allowed or not
allowed and it varies by jurisdiction so
i think that that's going to get
regulated and is regulated differently
in every jurisdiction generally the
scurrying is
what's what's the regulation around tax
transfer disclosure anti-money
laundering counter-terrorism disclosures
right
is the disclosure none at all is the
disclosure above 10 000 is the
disclosure at 600
and so all of the sparks
are around how much economic freedom
right and they have different impact for
example by the way could you when you
use the terms
terrorism and money laundering can you
use air quotes do you mind
yeah
so
it's above my pay grade
here's my key point right
you're a family you're an institutional
investor you're a corporation you see
inflation
you either buy some land yes you buy
some stocks you buy a bunch of gold or
you buy bitcoin
why would you buy the bitcoin because
you want the apex assets exactly you you
don't want the dilution of gold you
don't want the dilution of stocks you
don't want the property tax on property
you don't want the maintenance headache
of property
all other forms of property can be
impaired confiscated inflated away
all other forms of property right you
have rental
buildings in new york city and there's a
rent control and you can't evict your
tenants and there's a property tax
it's hard to sell it
and you've got to maintain it and so
all other properties that come with the
maintenance costs they come with the
risk the idea of bitcoin is
digital
property
it's it's
it's digital gold is digital properties
digital money is digital energy the idea
is let's create something pure
it's better gold than gold because a
billion dollars of it is weightless
moves at the speed of light for free and
i can hold it in my head
it's better property than property
because there's no maintenance costs and
i can't seize it from you
it's better money because for the same
reason it moves at the speed of light
it's programmable
try to send money on a saturday
afternoon if try to send a currency on a
saturday afternoon from a bank here to a
bank in france or a bank in nigeria
can't do it you know just can't do it so
it's not
spoils of war it's spoils of peace
this is another big idea i want to make
with everything else if we monetize if
we have a bunch of money if i give you a
million dollars and i tell you go buy
stuff with it and you buy gold jewelry
in a house and a car and whatever and i
want it
i put a gun to your head give me your
stuff tucker and you say no i shoot you
and take your stuff
there's nothing
in this world that you can own that i
can't take with force
except bitcoin okay if you take the
million dollars and you buy bitcoin and
you take personal custody of it and you
own the keys the keys password is in
your head i hold the gun to your head
give me your bitcoin you can say no now
i can still shoot you in the head
but i don't get the property
you see
you can take it this is the only proper
in the history of mankind tucker you can
take to the grave
the pharaohs wanted to take their goal
with them to the grave they created
these pyramids to bury themselves with
gold but grave diggers engraved robbers
steal the gold
you can't take anything else with you
but you can take
the password in your head why is that
significant well you study the history
of the jews in the 30s in nazi germany
and and most of them left with if they
were lucky 10 of their assets
they would have left with all their
assets if their assets were in bitcoin
they couldn't move their house they
can't move a building you can't haul the
gold
maybe you try to smuggle diamonds not
very good store of value
it's the history of every diaspora every
people when you leave
you know when the jews got driven out of
spain and whatever 14 1500 you know
during the inquisition
it was all over property right they're
stealing their property
so what are property rights
property rights is you can own stuff and
no one can take it away from you
i had a million dollars in a bank in
argentina 20 years ago it was in u.s
dollars the peso was one to the dollar
the argentine government sent a memo to
the banks forcibly converted everybody's
dollars to pesos and then forcibly
devalued the peso 10 for one and i woke
up the next morning and a hundred
thousand dollars i had a million dollars
a day before
they stole 90 percent of all the
currency from everybody in the country
overnight on a fax
without a law without an army
now how hard would it be to take
all of the property or of everybody in
the country with bitcoin you have to go
arrest 60 million people sweat them all
into jail for 90 days how do you arrest
60 million people sweat them in jail for
90 days
it's like a billion times harder
so
bitcoin is property rights properly
understood
and that is an impor important economic
empowerment it's a protection of
individual liberties it's john locke's
dream
life liberty and property
you know
go west young man why people come to
america because if you were catholic in
northern europe they took your land and
property if you're protestant in
southern europe they took your land and
property if you're a jewish person
everywhere they're always taking your
land and property everybody went to
america so that they could actually have
freedom and have property and no one
would take it at the point of a gun and
they kept moving west
bitcoin
is moving your property into cyber space
where it's protected by a wall of
encrypted energy against those that
would do you harm
and
because it's the hardest to tax and it's
the hardest to steal and it's the
hardest to co to confiscate it's
you know it makes it the last thing in
the world you're going to attack the
path of least resistance
right when it when it's time for me to
tax um tax property in california i'm
gonna put a tax on the building
buildings don't move
if i put a two percent tax on the
bitcoin the bitcoins moving to wyoming
if i put a put a two percent tax in
wyoming it's moving to whatever state in
the union they didn't tax it and when
the entire country taxes it is moving to
monaco and if everybody you know in
monaco taxes it i can sell it to someone
in china right
it's universally desirable scarce
property
hard to steal
you can
sell it you can put a lien on it you can
mortgage it you can develop it
you can protect it
and if your choice was
take all your money and invested in
buildings in the city of your choice or
invested in a company or securities or
invested in collectibles all those
things are subject to expropriation
confiscation inflation taxation
this is the first time we kind of solve
the problem
so
you know it doesn't make sense as long
as it's it's secure and can't be copied
and we had to wait 12 years 10 000 times
people tried to copy it they all failed
right was it hacked no will it be banned
well here's the thing that's happened in
the last 12 months tucker the irs said
its property
it's important for it to be property not
currency currency is the provenance of
the government right every gov every
powerful government will have a currency
every week government will have a
collapsing currency and every failed
government will lose their currency
privileges hence 66 countries dollarize
there's going to be collapse 100
countries will probably lose their
currency privileges eventually you got
the cny the usd
a few powerful second level currencies
and then name one currency in africa
that you would rather hold in the dollar
there's just one name one currency in
south america you'd rather hold in the
dollar there isn't one why hasn't the
dollar spread to everybody's iphone and
android phone
they're rating they're waiting for the
crypto rails
right at the point that i can download a
mobile app load it up with 87
every other currency in the world starts
to collapse into the us dollar assuming
the united states embraces it so why has
the united states embraced it
the united states has embraced it
why why has the chinese nation been a
bit skittish about it well china's got a
wall and behind that wall they have
capital controls they don't want capital
to flow freely a chinese citizen can't
take a million dollars out of china they
just can't that behind that wall they
block google they block facebook they
bought twitter they block the free flow
of capital that's that's how they
control their system they print chinese
currency if there was a free flow of
capital all the current capital would
leave china
they'd have a problem so they've got
their system
and in the west we've got a western
system where we allow google and twitter
and facebook and the and the western
system is based on the english language
western values
generally western law
us dollar
bitcoin
right
the in the last year the u.s has
embraced bitcoin the chinese have
rejected bitcoin at this point you have
jerome powell saying this is an asset
it's not a currency it's an asset you
have gary gensler the head of the sec
saying this is an asset it's a scarce
speculative asset they say it's
speculative of course it's speculative
right if it wasn't speculative
then 100 trillion dollars would flow
into it it would be it would have grown
by a factor of 100 by now i mean there
has to be some risk it's a speculative
store of value christina legard says
it's an asset even the bankers when
they're criticizing quote unquote they
say it's not a currency it's not a
medium of exchange
yeah you're right it doesn't need to be
a medium of exchange
you don't need it you don't need to
replace the us dollar in the western
world to fix things what you need to do
is give people a savings account
i want to hold one month of my salary in
dollars i want to store everything else
for the next 10 years or 100 years in an
asset which is going up in value
so
if you look
if you look at what's happened
the white the administration's in favor
of this this is a broadly bipartisan
thing sent the alumnus stood up on on
the floor of the senate and said thank
god for bitcoin
bitcoin is sound money
it's sell money to the right it's sound
money to the left who doesn't want to
economically empower everybody on earth
right it's it's good for everybody in
the world
there's there's broad support in the
senate there's bipartisan support in the
senate and broad support in the house
there's broad support in the
administration
people were a bit confused that it might
be a currency and it's going to replace
the dollar and if so then that's uh an
existential problem but once once you
take that turn you say
this is not a problem for the dollar
this is us replacing the foundation of
the economy that currently rests on
uh
other fiat assets which are in in uh
imperfect and efficient
right the first thing that collapses is
gold
gold has been collapsing for a decade
goes down four percent in the most
inflationary year of our business career
it's down four percent bitcoin's up 340
percent tucker what's bitcoin trading
out right now
66 000 67 thousand
last question last question if you had
to call it how high do you think in the
next five years bitcoin could get
this is per coin but you know
bitcoin's going up forever because it's
a cap supply of 21 million and it's
going to go up
because of inflation right we're going
to increase the supply of dollars and
bitcoin is going to be fixed so in
dollars it goes up it's going to go up
because of technical utility we're going
to build it into iphones and android
phones and put it into every computer
and move it at the speed of light and
build it into twitter and square and
paypal and then
and the like so that'll cause it to go
up it's going to go up for adoption
because of adoption more and more people
are gonna bring their money and
it's not like facebook it's not like uh
when rupert murdoch showed up at
facebook he didn't bring a billion
friends
when a billionaire joins a monetary
network they bring a billion dollars
so when a hundred billionaires show up
they bring hundreds of billions of
dollars when companies when
institutional investors show up they
bring massive amounts of capital so it
will keep going up with adoption utility
and inflation and eventually
you know it will replace gold which is
10 trillion dollar asset bitcoins like a
1.2 it'll go by a factor of 10. and in
in three to five years it'll certainly
replace gold
then it will replace indexes right the s
p index or bond indexes it'll start to
demonetize
fixed income and equity indexes that are
used as a store of value
right because that's right now people
they want to save their money for a long
period of time they use that and
gradually it'll demonetize property like
you know in canada they got a housing
shortage because foreigners go and they
buy the houses you know as an investment
and the locals can't afford a house yeah
i've noticed same problem in the u.s yes
we're monetizing
houses that is to say if i print
infinite money
the price of all i go and i buy
something tangible with the money before
it devalues the problem is people that
are starting their career that need to
buy a house can't afford to buy yes
so you don't want to monetize something
with utility exactly you know you
monetize food everybody starves you
monetize houses everybody's on the
street right so what bitcoin is doing is
it's demonetizing
commercial and
reasons decided no more bitcoin
down if the residential
i mean what would happen in residential
real estate markets
well i mean if if bitcoin went away then
then the other monetary assets would
monetize a bit more right but bitcoin is
1 trillion out of 500 trillion in stuff
out there so it's still
it's still less than one percent but you
know gold would get a slight boost
gold is is really being uh why is it
gold didn't go up 34 gold underperformed
the s p index in a year of political
unrest and massive rampant inflation
it's it's the one year in 40 years gold
should have gone up in price why because
everyone looking for a non-sovereign
store of value grabbed the crypto gold
right they they occupy the same niche
non-sovereign sound money store of value
not related to cash flows can't be
mocked with but the problem is gold can
be corrupted
gold is corrupted by gold miners and
gold brokers and gold dealers bitcoin
can't be corrupted in that way because
you can take possession of your own
bitcoin and the gold mine the bitcoin
miners can't make anymore
so
people say bitcoin is fixing things
right fix the money fix the world
bitcoin is is gradually demonetizing
these other assets and the idea is to
return rationality
to make things more rational
right if people start buying bitcoin
instead of buying a second investment
property
that price of property will go down for
people that want a first home yes
that's the idea if people start buying
bitcoin instead of bonds the price of
bonds will come down the yield will come
up exactly and if you want risk-free
yield you'll be able to buy that yield
it used to be a million dollars got you
a bond to paid you 50 000 a year now you
need 20 million dollars or 10 million
dollars to get a bond that pays 50 000 a
year
your retirement just went from costing
you a million it costing you 10 million
so
bitcoin is is demonetizing some of these
other assets and the stock market all
these meme stocks these are all symptoms
of too much money
right and and the the sky high p to e
ratios
so
the big picture the big idea here
tucker is
the average american the average the
average wage earner is forced to take
their life savings and gamble it in the
stock market in order to avoid losing
their life savings my 83 year old father
has to guess which stock is going to go
up this week
and whether it's exxon is better than
british petroleum or better than apple
or not so good as google in order to not
lose his life savings because if he puts
it into the bank he gets paid 0.1
percent interest
and it loses 25 of its purchasing power
a year and people aren't stupid they
know that things are going up faster
than two percent a year or four percent
a year or five percent a year so we're
stampeding an entire generation into
either at best investing in in stocks or
at worst gambling with meme stocks and
gambling with crypto random dog coins
because no one has a savings account
they trust bitcoin is a bank in
cyberspace offering a savings account
you're not gambling on the next product
release of apple versus google and
whether amazon will get unionized and
whether you know this pipeline will get
approved and it's that's not right and
if you put all your money in the s p
index all the ceos print more stock and
dilute your money so you don't have to
do that
all you're buying is you're buying 121
millionth of the monetary energy in the
network forever
the product of bitcoin is just you're
going to buy a bit of money and hold it
forever and that's the product and it's
a very simple product should last for 10
000 years
you sold me i'm taking all my pallets of
762 ammo and convert converting them
um that was the single most interesting
explanation of economics i've heard
maybe ever
you're too kind that's you
bitcoin i mean the entire subject is
fascinating because i think you'd love
it if you get more into it because it's
austrian economics plus it's technology
plus it's political theory plus its
philosophy plus it's
you know there are there are elements of
human rights in it
the entire bitcoin coalition it's your
people on one side jack dorsey they see
it as economic empowerment for billions
of people you have people on other side
to see it that are rampant austrian
economist they're they're the freedom
fighters that the john locke
locks right of the world and
the property rights people the
libertarians and then
the engineers
i just like the idea of a stable store
of value
that can't be messed with
everyone's looking for that that's the
foundation upon which you build your
life of course
right build on granite
with steel
so bitcoin is crypto steel
it's like
it's like uh a steel ship a wooden ship
a balsa ship
you know
like okay i'll take this deal that's the
i that's the idea and we didn't we
didn't have it
for a thousand years right
we never had it before like it's before
you have to build with crumbling sand on
swamps and just
you're building on stuff that's sinking
underneath you and what's what's causes
so much passion
right what causes people to you know be
willing
to do anything to make this successful
is this thought that we finally found
something true and beautiful with
integrity
that gives us control of our life back
in a world where we feel like we've lost
control
to politicians we've lost control to
circumstances and everyone's looking for
some some way
something they can believe in that's
truly theirs
how is that for an explanation
michael saylor
what an amazing conversation thanks for
having me are you kidding we wanted to
know what bitcoin was we certainly found
out tucker carlson says the name of the
show new episodes every monday wednesday
and friday we'll see every week night
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