Unbelievable energy here, huh?
Orange energy.
Orange energy.
Well, it's an honor and a privilege to be with you all here today and get to interview
my closest friend for 20 plus years, Michael Saylor, who obviously needs no introduction
but whose contribution to the Bitcoin community has been nothing short of extraordinary.
So I thought we would start off kind of at a high level macroeconomic view and talk
about what's happening on a macro level, respect to interest rates, currencies, things of
that nature and how it seems to be pushing the whole world into Bitcoin.
You know, I discovered Bitcoin starting around March, April of 2020 and that's because
the world came to a grinding halt.
Interest rates went to zero.
The lockdown shut down the economy everywhere in the world.
It's a, the plane stopped flying, the ship stopped moving, the car stopped driving and I looked
at the interest rates at zero and I thought this is kind of the same as trying to stop
the passage of time.
And for about 18 months, the entire economy was kind of frozen and stuck.
And then around about a year ago, a bit more than a year ago, the Federal Reserve started
raising the short term interest rates and they went from zero to 25 to 50 to 75 to 100
and they went straight up to 500 basis points and they, and that's the fastest rate of increase
in the interest rate in our lifetimes, you know, in our business career.
And so I like to, I like to think of it as it's like in Top Gun 2, the movie where the
interest rates were about 250 basis points in the middle of 2018 and then the feds flying
the plane and it gets about 180 basis points in about February of 2020 and then it steep
dives down to zero and it buzzes the valley.
This is flying the world's economy at zero for about 18 months and then someone decided
that they could go into a 9G lift and they just started pulling back on the wings of the
plane and they're flying as hard as they can up to 500 basis points and that's the point
of which you either black out or you rip the wings off the airplane, right?
And then the movie Top Gun, the pilot started black out but we, we've got the point where
the plane is almost about the stall, the plane being the worldwide economy.
A lot of people are blacking out.
You saw this in the UK about six months ago where the prime minister and the head of the
minister of the ex-checker lost their jobs in a matter of weeks because they almost blew
up the entire insurance pension fund and banking business in the UK.
A few months after that we started ripping the wings off of the banking system in the
US and we saw the failure of Silicon Valley bank and Silvergate bank and signature bank
and first republic bank and so where we are right now is we're getting to the end of that
incredible adjustment where the bankers are trying to reverse the excesses of taking
interest to zero and the result is we know we can't keep raising interest rates much
faster, much longer because we'll just crash the entire US and Western European banking
complex.
I mean all the banks technically insolvent when they raise interest rates that fast because
they crash the bonds.
So the Western bankers have slowed down that process.
Now they're ambivalent.
Can they move forward a little bit?
Do they have to back off a bit?
What's happened in the meantime that people don't notice is when we crank the interest
rates up so fast we destroyed the value of all the sovereign debt and all the long mid-size
debt in the world.
What we're also doing is we're sucking all of the energy out of second out of the developing
world currencies.
So indirectly or maybe directly the interest rate saga has crushed the currencies of Turkey
and the currencies of Argentina and the currencies of every developing nation that doesn't have
an extremely strong economy.
They're all collapsing right now.
So where are we in the macro cycle?
We're at the point where the inflation hasn't really gone away.
It's backed off of the most extremes but we still have inflation and excess of the interest
rate.
We can't really keep raising interest rates without destroying all of our allies currencies
and we can't raise interest rates without destroying a lot of the Western banks and pension
funds and the rest of the bond complex.
So the political pressure is going to grow on the banking community to stop raising rates
but of course they're going to want the inflation to go away and they're going to want to save
all of these other developing nations.
So I would expect the logical thing to happen now is all of the economists will start to
redefine inflation.
And so instead of hearing CPI you're going to see other inflation measures that we want
to focus on.
They're going to redefine the measure.
They're going to make adjustments to the market basket of goods and services in the inflation
metric.
So we're going to take out expensive items and put cheap items into the index so that
the CPI looks lower.
And you're going to start to see new novel financial instruments like swaps where we're
simply going to swap billions or hundreds of billions of dollars for hundreds of billions
of dollars of another currency.
It will be an off balance sheet adjustment.
And all of these things will be meant to massage the macroeconomic problem.
We'll be trying to support other currencies.
We'll be trying to keep our bonds from crashing.
We'll be trying to make the inflation look lower.
We're going to re-normalize.
So instead of 2% inflation maybe it'll be 3% is normal.
And instead of 3% of inflation defined 10 years ago it'll be 3% of the new inflation
metric that we just came up with because this is the proper one because the world is different
today and technology is different.
And of course pretty soon you'll have ad finance, YouTube videos and the CPI because that's
a little bit easier metric to manage.
So I think we're at that cycle where the money printing is going to continue.
We're going to have more of a delamination between monetary inflation and asset inflation
and producer price inflation and CPI inflation and the general inflation rate.
And politicians and bankers are going to struggle to hold it all together with a lot of
novel new programs and new ideas.
I think that's a great backdrop for the next topic I want to talk about.
Everywhere we've gone for the last week everybody has wanted to ask about your views on what's
happening on the regulatory front.
The SEC has come out quite strong against a number of large crypto players.
And so I thought it would be helpful to chat a little bit about what your views are on
how this impacts Bitcoin both in the short term as well as the long term.
Yeah well you know Bitcoin's a rabbit hole and when you start going down the rabbit hole
first you have to learn all about Bitcoin and then you have to learn all about the block
size wars.
And then you have to learn about the history of the crypto industry.
And somewhere along the way I started studying Gary Ginzer I took his class at MIT.
I went back and I watched every minute of 20 lectures at MIT.
And then I started reading everything written by anybody.
And as you know I read all the lawsuits.
I read the CFTC lawsuit.
I read the Betrix lawsuit.
I read the Coinbase lawsuit, the Binance lawsuit, all of the legal judgments.
And I listened to all the congressional testimony like every minute.
Like everything that every Congress person or every Senator has said about Bitcoin for
the past three years.
This is true.
And then I talked to you about it.
And so here's my opinion.
First of all in the beginning there was Bitcoin and it was good.
And there was a unit of account and it was called BTC.
And there was a network that could not be censored and it was called Bitcoin.
And then along came smart people that learned about Bitcoin and they arrived to fix Bitcoin.
I just heard about Bitcoin.
I'm here to fix Bitcoin.
And they divided into two factions.
There are the people that heard about Bitcoin and wanted to help Bitcoin the hard way.
And they worked on lightning and it took years from 2015 and they're still working at six
seven eight years later.
And they worked on Bitcoin applications and they worked on Bitcoin companies and they
worked very hard to raise millions and tens of millions and hundreds of millions and billions
of dollars to buy Bitcoin.
That's the hard way.
And those people were in this room and they're in the Bitcoin ecosystem and that's Bitcoin
and lightning and Bitcoin maximalist and people that we Bitcoin.
It's the Samson Mous and the Adam Bax and you know and it's the Elizabeth Starks and
the Jack Mawlers and the Jack Doris season.
You know who they are.
And it's hard work.
It takes a lot of time, a lot of money, a lot of bleeding.
Then there's another group of people that heard about Bitcoin and they wanted to fix it
and they took the easy way.
And the easy way is a few shortcuts.
It was I want to make money by copying Bitcoin.
I want to compete with Bitcoin with a new token.
I want to bank Bitcoin.
I want to re-hypothicate Bitcoin.
I want to loan you money on Bitcoin.
I want to generate yield on Bitcoin.
I want to run a Bitcoin exchange.
I want to offer you Bitcoin derivatives and I want to create every other flavor of Bitcoin
and I got the new Bitcoin, the quantum resistant Bitcoin and the energy efficient Bitcoin and
the faster and more beautiful Bitcoin with the crypto kitties on it.
Okay, that's the other set.
Okay, that's crypto.
Now what's going on right now is that people and I wanted to create the US dollar on
a crypto rail and I'm going to give you Bitcoin without volatility and I'm going to give you
a network, a crypto network that clears in one second which is cheap and free.
So what you see with the regulation right now is the regulators are saying, we're not
comfortable with a stable coin, we're not comfortable with the crypto exchange, we're
not comfortable with the crypto token, we're not comfortable with the shortcuts.
We don't want you to do an ICO.
We don't want a corporate coin and the result of all of that is the crypto ecosystem which
in the beginning was Bitcoin and then bifurcated into all these other things is going to come
back together and unify on Bitcoin again.
What we're going to see is that instead of the unit account being the dollar and instead
of the network being a crypto exchange offshore, now the unit account is going to be BTC and
the crypto network is going to be Bitcoin and if you want a fast Bitcoin network, a fast
payment network, it's not going to be a crypto exchange, it's not going to be a proof of
stake token, it's going to be lightning and the gas is going to be satoshies and everything
is going to anchor into Bitcoin.
So this is a very painful time period for the crypto industry and you can read it on the
news but it's a very expensive, painful, difficult, educational episode where people that believed
in Bitcoin but then went off to do all of their other all-coin experiments and crypto experiments,
they're going to realize that there was a reason that you might want a censorship resistant
network that sped out of block every 10 minutes.
They're going to realize that there's a reason for a mining network that spits out 400
exohash of digital power.
They're going to realize that there's a benefit to working really long and hard for many,
many years to do a lightning type network.
They're going to realize that these things they took for granted, they thought we can
just have our cake and eat it too.
We can have a decentralized network that has the dollars, the unit of account and we can
move the money to speed of light for free and we don't really need to use energy and mining
a six and Bitcoin and we don't have to pay for Bitcoin for gas.
We'll just issue our own yo-yo coin and we'll use that for gas.
Those people are going to realize that Bitcoin is the safe haven asset.
Bitcoin is the risk off asset.
Bitcoin is the censorship resistant network.
Bitcoin is the reserve asset of the ecosystem and that means that as they lose confidence
in their tokens, they're going to trade their tokens back into the reserve asset of
the ecosystem which is Bitcoin.
When they lose confidence in an offshore or an onshore crypto exchange, they're going
to trade back into Bitcoin.
When they lose confidence, when they think that, well, that's not censorship resistant
anymore, right?
Those are all nation state captured networks.
They're going to go back to Bitcoin.
I actually think that this is reminding everybody why Satoshi did what Satoshi did.
It's going to bring everybody back to their roots and as people lose confidence in all
of these other crypto ideas which were meant to make Bitcoin better or fix Bitcoin, right?
I'll give people a benefit of that.
They're trying to fix Bitcoin but they're taking shortcuts or maybe it was their business,
right?
They're taking the business of trading Bitcoin, re-ipothecating Bitcoin, hedging Bitcoin,
trading competitors to Bitcoin and proving Bitcoin.
That was their business.
I think that they're going to realize that in fact the best idea always was to buy and
hold Bitcoin, take the long view and if you see an issue, if you see something that is
suboptimal like I want to pay for a cup of coffee in a split second for free. If you can't do that with
Bitcoin, you don't reinvent the ecosystem. You go back and you focus on creating either a layer
two or a layer three solution on top of Bitcoin and you solve the problem via lightning or solve the
problem by a custodial Bitcoin wallet. And so ultimately, the capital and the crypto ecosystem
is going to migrate from the other crypto assets to Bitcoin. As people lose confidence as they get
fearful about all these other crypto assets and crypto exchanges, they're going to go to the thing
they know, the thing they trust. And the truth of the matter is, as Eric has you told me many times,
the crypto people don't, they don't want just like Bitcoin, they actually like Bitcoin. They
just thought that there might be another way and there might be another possibility. And now they
realize that Bitcoin is the way. And there's no second best. There is no second best.
The exchanges will simplify. They will go from trading hundreds of tokens or thousands of tokens
or tens of thousands of ideas and they will simplify and they will consolidate. The ones that are
going to last are going to focus on Bitcoin. They're going to realize that the investors are going
to realize they should focus on Bitcoin. The technologist, whatever their idea is fast payments,
DeFi, some token, some any kind of security thing, they're going to focus on Bitcoin. They're going
to focus on Bitcoin, Lightning. They'll be an explosion of interest and protocols. The VC are
going to move over from crypto tokens with Solana named as a security with Cardano named as a security
with all these other 15, 20, 30 tokens named as securities. The VC and Silicon Valley are going
to say, wow, what was that thing about Bitcoin? I was not lightning. You mean I can do this on
Bitcoin with Satoshi's and you're going to see the VC's move over to Bitcoin and Lightning.
You're going to see a renaissance of development on Bitcoin. You're going to see an acceleration
of lightning. You're going to see an expansion and all of this is in essence a massive educational
campaign to teach politicians the difference between Bitcoin and an ethical commodity and a security.
And you can see it. It's like the senator says Bitcoin. The governor says Bitcoin. The Congress
person says Bitcoin. The regulator says Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin, Bitcoin. And all of these lawsuits
and I've read thousands and thousands of pages. There's one word conspicuously missing from all
of the thousands of pages and that one word is Bitcoin. Okay?
So bottom line, right? It's bumpy. It's a turbulent transition. It's a rationalization
in the industry. The business, the industry is growing up but it's long term good for Bitcoin.
And I think you can expect a lot of the crypto bros that got distracted. Maybe they took off
their laser eyes. Maybe they love Bitcoin between 2010 and 2016. I think they're coming back to
Bitcoin from 2023 to 2030. And you're going to see there's going to be an avalanche of people
returning to the fold building on top of Bitcoin and they're going to rediscover the roots of the
crypto revolution. Right? The whole idea of cryptography, decentralization and asset without an
issuer. Right? And that is what's going on right now. It's going to educate the politicians. It's
going to educate the mainstream media. Watch CNBC. They get it. Watch Bloomberg. They get it.
Read Wall Street Journal on New York Times. They get it. And so I follow all you guys on Twitter.
And I remember when I first got in this space in 2020, people said, when will the mainstream media
talk about us? Nobody talks about us. Nobody talks about Bitcoin. Nobody talks about any of this.
And then for a while, they talked about a lot of stuff and it was very confusing and it was very
scary and it was unclear whether it was different between Bitcoin and FTT token. And now they're
talking about us but it's very clear. Like Bitcoin is a commodity. There's other stuff as uncertain.
Right? And Andrew Ross Sorkin says, tell me what you think about Bitcoin.
And so I think that this has been, it's a catalytic experience. It's cathartic for the crypto community.
I think we should welcome them back with open arms when they're ready to return to the fold.
But meanwhile, Bitcoin is going to continue to motor forward. We have
all of the people re-hypothicating and shorting Bitcoin. They're all bankrupt.
If you thought it was a good idea to loan your Bitcoin to someone so they could short it,
you probably lost your Bitcoin. Everyone in the business of shorting Bitcoin, they're all fallen.
Right? Everybody that embraced the altcoins is being equal to Bitcoin. They're realizing that
was a bad business idea. I think it takes a while for the market to work out these issues.
The law of thermodynamics will not be denied. Bitcoin is the technically superior asset.
It is the economically superior asset. It is the ethically superior asset.
And believe it or not, the vast majority of the disinterested population around the world
will eventually give in enough time and information. Realize that.
And they are realizing that. That's what's happening in front of your face. It's not pretty.
It's not pleasant. But this is the way that Bitcoin rises above the noise and establishes its dominance
as the world's greatest crypto asset network.
So we've got a macroeconomic landscape where nation states and central banks are doing their best
to destroy the purchasing power of 8 billion people in the world, pushing people into Bitcoin.
We've got a regulatory environment that you've just eloquently described as being very good for
Bitcoin certainly in the long term. I think the title of our chat here is the investment case for
Bitcoin. So let's get a little more granular talk about that. Take it any direction you like,
whether you want to talk about different products or the different investment groups,
whether it's individuals, family offices, corporations, what are your thoughts on the investment case for Bitcoin?
Well, I think people are losing confidence in technology investments and stock and equity
investments right now. If you look at the performance of the S&P and the NASDAQ and most
conventional companies, they've had a wall. And so investors in the equity market are scratching
their head and they're increasingly fearful. They've got high interest rates, they've got inflation,
they've got regulation, they've got trade barriers. So they're looking around. The commercial
real estate market took off in 2020 because interest rates went to zero and so the cap rates of these
companies were extraordinary and the multiples on commercial real estate were extreme. And there's
always like a three-year lag. Like you and me, we sit around our pool in March of 2020, we go, oh my,
these commercial office buildings are going to be empty. Who's going to want this space?
Well, it takes three years for people to go, wow, commercial occupancies are low, who wants the
space. So sometimes you don't really want to know three years in advance or at least you
have to think about it. But I think investors are going to disenchanted with real estate.
They're getting disenchanted with equity. They're getting concerned, I mean the entire commodity
thing is a concern. Commodities don't work and they're realizing that that's a challenge.
So they're also losing confidence right in their ownership of these properties, right? You've
seen so many people had their assets seized or frozen and that's continuing. So Bitcoin is emerging
as digital gold. Its proposition is gold is stronger than ever because gold is not performed at
all in two and a half years and Bitcoin is beating every asset class in the same time period.
So the gold hypothesis is much, our thesis is much stronger. Bitcoin is digital property is much
stronger. The idea that I could buy a million dollars worth of Bitcoin and move it anywhere in
the world is becoming appealing to people as they start to struggle with property taxes and they
know there's going to be an increase in tax over time. So Bitcoin is emerged as a digital commodity
better than gold, as a digital property better than commercial real estate. It's emerging as an
alternative to people that have seen their residential property monetize and it's also emerging as a
world's monetary index because as the regulators differentiate between Bitcoin and everything else
as they hammer over and over and over again, Bitcoin is an asset without an issue or it is unique.
As that happens, the significance of Bitcoin being that green ticker in the lower right corner of
a CNBC television episode or newscast or Bitcoin being at the top of the mass head of the Wall Street
journal every day, right? That's sending a message to the world. This is the world's global monetary
index. In fact, this is the greatest of the world's global monetary indexism. I think Bitcoin has
successfully morphed from being speculative, scary digital asset to legitimate monetary index,
legitimate monetary asset everywhere in the world. We talked about this before. I think that if you
get people to acknowledge that Bitcoin is an asset with a period, then Bitcoin 10 X is from here.
Like, we don't really have to conclude anything else. I have my hierarchy of investors. It's like
a five-part hierarchy. Okay, here are Bitcoin investors. There's the Bitcoin denier like the Peter
Chef. Bitcoin is tulips. It doesn't exist. It's a scam right over. The Bitcoin deniers have actually
been discredited. They've not got no credibility left. When the head of the CFTC, the SEC,
the White House, Congress, Senate, the Treasury, the head of the central banks of the
European United States, when the Wall Street journal, the New York Times, when CNBC, when they all
acknowledge Bitcoin as an asset, the deniers just look silly. So the deniers have kind of been
silenced. Now you've got the skeptics. Skeptics are those that say, oh, Bitcoin, it's an asset.
It may be digital gold. It's too good to be true. So the government will ban it.
Like, follow me that again. It's really good. It's so good that the government's going to ban it.
That's the skeptic, right? They're not denying they're just saying, well, someone's going to take it
away from you. Okay, well, that was a very loud refrain three years ago. And you heard that from
bankers and from big investors. You've even heard it two years ago, one year ago. But if you're
reading the 10,000 pages of lawsuits right now, and if you're looking what's going on in Congress
and the Senate, it's pretty obvious they're not taking it away from you guys, right? At the end of
the day, the one thing that the regulators everywhere in the world are trying to tell you is, if you
operate a crypto exchange, you can sell in by Bitcoin. That's what they're trying to tell you.
Bitcoin is good. It's ethical. It's an asset without an issuer. It's real. It's an innovation.
We don't know what we think of it, but it is tangible. So the skeptics are actually proven wrong
as well. And now we move to the last three categories. The investor, the technocrat,
and the maximalist. Investors are people that say, oh, Bitcoin's a digital asset. I think maybe
I'll buy some. Maybe it's maybe I'll short it. It's correlated to the NASDAQ. No, it's it's
uncorrelated to the NASDAQ. No, it's negatively correlated to the NASDAQ. They're like traders. They
change their mind, but if they acknowledge that it's something that they need one percent of it,
okay, we're actually seeing a migration. And a lot of people are coming on board as investors and
traders. And that's not a bad thing. That's a good thing. I think I think the regulators in the
mainstream media are doing a great job of orange-pilling Bitcoin investors. You know, and this is maybe
the first and greatest asset class, you know, since the creation of the S&P 500, right, and since
the creation of the S&P index, so the Vanguard index, right, this is the biggest thing for them.
So, you know, we like investors. The technocrats, technocrats, what I was with regard to Apple
in 2009, if you'd asked me, I said, Apple's going to be a digital monopoly, a mobile monopoly,
they're going to crush everybody, they're going to get a billion users, they're going to make huge
amounts of money, this thing going to go up by a factor of 10. Okay, if you believe that Microsoft
is going to own the business software market and Google is going to own those search market and
Apple's going to own the mobile market, then you're a technocrat, a techno investor. And pretty much
every, every obscenely rich person that you know in this world was a technocrat. You know, the
Mark Zuckerbergs, the Larry Pages, the Sergey Bruns, the, you know, the Steve Jobs, the, you know,
all of them, the Zuckerbergs, the Jeff Bezos of the world, they're technocrats, right? A lot
of people made a lot of money being a technocrat. And so if you believe in, if you understand Bitcoin,
and you're a technocrat, what you say is, Bitcoin is the world's dominant digital monetary network.
That's what Kathy Wood just said on CNBC, just today, to Andrew Ross Sorkin. She said,
hey, it's the world's greatest global monetary network. And the first, and it's going to go to
$600,000 to a million dollars of coin, that's our base case. Technocrat. And then she went on to say,
yeah, we like Tesla, we like technology, right? That's okay. Those people are great,
Warren Buffett eventually bought Apple computer. Carl Icon eventually bought Apple computer.
Right? Those people once they buy, they'll hold. I started out as a technocrat. And I think anybody
that understands technology says, well, it's 95% of the proof of work in the world, maybe more.
It's absolutely dominant. The, the next closest thing is 1%. So it doesn't take a stretch to say,
Bitcoin is the digital monetary network destined to provide a digital monetary network to billions and
billions and billions of people in the next one to two decades. And on that basis, it should go
up by a factor of 100. And we're winning those people. We're going to get them. But the last
type of investor is the maximalist. Okay, and here's what the, here's my definition of maximalist.
Jack Dorsey said, Bitcoin is an instrument of economic empowerment. I heard those words. They stuck
with me my entire life. When I first bought Bitcoin, I said, it's the world's greatest digital
gold network. It's going to be better than Apple computer. But when I heard Jack Dorsey speak, I said,
Bitcoin is an instrument of empowerment for 8 billion people. It's an ethical good. It's a utilitarian
entitlement to all 8 billion people in the world. It gives property rights. It gives freedom. It
gets a hope of sovereignty. That's a little bit better than the value proposition of Apple,
Google, Facebook, Amazon and Microsoft. Which I like. But at the end of the day,
if you believe that Bitcoin is an instrument of empowerment, then you're a maximalist.
Right? People don't, when I owned Apple stock, I didn't think it was going to cure half of the
ills in the world and provide property rights to everybody in China or Africa. I just thought it was
a really good investment with a technology lever. So much leverage was unstoppable.
It said it's unstoppable. Like Amazon is unstoppable. Like Google is unstoppable.
Like Bitcoin is unstoppable. However, the difference with Bitcoin is it's not just unstoppable.
Right? It's inevitable and it's ethical. And so for that reason, I think it's the most
important thing I've ever done. And you don't have to be disinvested from everything else in your
life. You can own a building, own Apple stock. You can believe in supporting your local mayor.
You can actually own farmland and Kansas. And you can actually mine for silver or you can run
a natural gas well and you can still be a Bitcoin maximalist. Right? What differentiates Bitcoin
maximalist is say, this is not just an unstoppable digital network. This is an ethical imperative.
And if you believe it's an ethically good thing, then you become as passionate as Jack Dorsey is,
as everybody in this room is, right? As I am. And I think that ultimately is what differentiates
the decision to support Bitcoin from the decision to support gold or natural gas or oil or
or any given corporate stock or invest in a building. Those are just mercenary investments. But
but this is this is a mission. I love that definition because it's that.
I love that definition of Bitcoin maximalist because it's so inclusive. And I think there's
often a perception that Bitcoin maximalism is anything but inclusive. So I think that's that's great.
In addition to that, there's this kind of feeling that there is this strong ideology around Bitcoin,
which this, you know, role of financial empowerment kind of permeates our industry. And that ideology
can be viewed. Some people think it's military and has religious connotations to it. Others just
think it's an ideology. What are your thoughts on the ideological components of Bitcoin?
I think Bitcoin is definitely an ideology. It's a superior ideology. If you believe in the application
of mathematics and physics and the laws of thermodynamics to the world of economics and politics
and human behavior, then you believe in Bitcoin. I don't think you have to apologize for that.
There was a time when Galileo said, you know, I think that the earth moves around the sun.
And I observed that because of science and and experimentation and and people thought that was
a religious belief, but it was just an ideology grounded in science. And I think that everything
is beautiful in this world, right? The planes that fly, the trains that move, the ships that float,
that don't sink, right? The electricity, the fire. These are all based on physics and they're
based on thermodynamics. And if you believe in the cult of fire and the cult of electricity and
the cult of sailing power and ships that float and don't sink, then yeah, you know, you believe in
an ideology. But it's an ideology rooted in mathematics and rationale and physics. And I think that
the Bitcoin, the Bitcoin community is passionate, but it's because we want physics and we want mathematics
to be applied to money and to be applied to property rights and be applied to politics and be
applied to economics. And for the first time in human history, we have the technology to bring
physics and mathematics and thermodynamics to economics. And for everyone that doesn't understand
that, they may view that as a as an ideology and a bit scary. But the answer to that is we just have
to educate the world. Because once they understand that there are physics that that we use to fly our
airplanes and build our skyscrapers and make our mobile phones work and heat our homes. And those
physics can also be used to make our economies work better and make everyone's life better.
I think that people will embrace that technology and then they'll realize that, you know, Bitcoin
Maximus or no more religious zealots than Galileo or Isaac Newton were when they proposed certain
scientific and mathematical ideas to make the world a better place.
Well, I think you have the now on the head there with we've got to educate the world and
the contribution that you've made through your podcast and your colorful metaphors and explanations
of how to educate the world on Bitcoin has been nothing short of extraordinary. So on behalf of
everyone, thank you for that. I think we're out of time, but thank you.